Washington Post: HOLMES: U.S. backtracks on missile shield

Ilion

73Zeppelin wrote:

Okay, but what's with the American interest in a European missile shield? Is it simply in support of NATO allies (Czech Republic and Poland)?

The American interest is both moral (there are multiple levels on that point) and "Machiavellian" ("Fortress America" is not viable).

Oakman

73Zeppelin wrote:

In other words, if Iran fires a missile at Europe, it's Europe's problem, not America's...

I been saying words to that effect for quite some time. Other than tweaking the bear's nose, there is absolutely nothing in the American interest about defending Poland for Iran or Russia. It's the Cuban Missile Crisis all over again, only this time Putin gets to play the Jack kennedy role.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.

Oakman

Mike Mullikin wrote:

Agreed. In fact, I'd take it even further and pull ALL U.S. military personnel, hardware and bases from all foreign countries - Japan, South Korea, Germany, UK, etc... All of it comes home and defends our ports and borders.

I heard today that the U.S. has troops stationed in 130 countries. :wtf: An absolute waste of our blood and our money. Bring 'em home; let the Guard go back to being each State's militia; and if we need a fight, let's annex Mexico. Let the arseholes who talk about America's "moral" responsibility to the rest of the world, tell us about all the battles they fought in or stfu.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.

Ilion

73Zeppelin wrote:

That's what I thought - it's expensive (monetarily and in human cost) to keep military personnel staffed overseas.

Of course it is. And the US taxpayer has been carrying "the Europeans," and the Koreans, and the Japanese for far too long and at far too great expense. One major reason "European" politics and polities are so infantile is because the US government has enabled, and possibly intentionally encouraged, such a development. But regardless of the expence of maintaining our committments, radioactive cities, or even the credible thread of radioactive cities, whether in Europe or in America, will be far more expensive.

Oakman

Ilíon wrote:

"Fotress America" is not viable

You'll fight the bad guys to the last ounce of everybody else's blood?

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.

Lost User

Since the end of the cold war, Russia not being the threat it once was deemed to be, the United States could easily withdraw to its national boundaries. However, there are political and economic investments that the United States has around the globe so it is understandable that they might also wish a military presence as well, if only to give some measure of security towards those other stated investments. But should the United States at some future time return all of its servicemen etc to home soil, your armed forces may need to be trimmed down in size, there would be no need for such huge numbers unless civil insurgency is a worry to Washington. And I can thus understand the Ilion comment of Fortress America not being viable.

73Zeppelin

Ah, good points Richard.

Lost User

Pre Cuban crisis: Cuba: Russian missiles? No. Turkey: American missiles? Yes. Post Cuba crisis: Cuba: Russian missiles? No. Turkey: American missiles? No. Twas a famous victory.

Bob Emmett

Oakman

Ilíon wrote:

But regardless of the expence of maintaining our committments, radioactive cities, or even the credible thread of radioactive cities, whether in Europe or in America, will be far more expensive.

Oh please, General LeMay, do tell us about the monolithic commies' plans to take over the world. Thanks for a golden-oldie flashback from 1957, Troy! As a combat vet, as someone who has contacts with some senior officers on active duty and retired, as someone who has studied military history, as someone who thinks about the parlous state of the world, America, and the American military, I would like to thank you for sharing your thoughts. It's always good to know what people who aren't any of those things, are thinking. However, you couldn't be more wrong if you tried.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.

Lost User

Both Moral and Machiavellian? :rolleyes:

Bob Emmett

Oakman

Bob Emmett wrote:

Twas a famous victory

Perception is (almost) everything. Otherwise it'd be the Turkish Missile Crisis and women wouldn't wear padded bras.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.

Lost User

Mike Mullikin wrote:

pull ALL U.S. military personnel, hardware and bases from all foreign countries - Japan, South Korea, Germany, UK, etc...

When we ceased to be a World Power, we had to relinquish our colonies too... :sigh:

Bob Emmett

Oakman

Richard A. Abbott wrote:

However, there are political and economic investments that the United States has around the globe so it is understandable that they might also wish a military presence as well, if only to give some measure of security towards those other stated investments.

Here's a thought: Let's not get involved in entangling foreign alliances. . .where have I heard that before?[^] By the way, at least in theory, the U.S Government does not make economic investments but leaves that to private companies. I personally find the concept that we would use American troops to defend the interests of Haliburton or Walmart to be less than appetising.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.

Lost User

Oakman wrote:

women wouldn't wear padded bras.

How do you expect me to concentrate on a serious wind-up?

Bob Emmett

Lost User

Bob Emmett wrote:

When we ceased to be a World Power, we had to relinquish our colonies too...

It's time we release them or make them states so they can be taxed properly. ;)

Ilion

Bob Emmett wrote:

Both Moral and ["]Machiavellian["]? :rolleyes:

Yes. :rolleyes: yourself.

Lost User

Oakman wrote:

Let the arseholes who talk about America's "moral" responsibility to the rest of the world

Presumably these are citizens of the USA? Everyone else seems to want either your money or your lives. :sigh:

Bob Emmett

Oakman

Mike Mullikin wrote:

It's time we release them or make them states so they can be taxed properly

Even Canada?

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.

Oakman

Bob Emmett wrote:

How do you expect me to concentrate on a serious wind-up?

Think of bras as support housings for frontal radars ;)

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.

Lost User

I should have guessed: the USA and devious cunning, I haven't seen that in many years. Still got the ruthlessness, though.

Bob Emmett