Children of the State

Chris Austin

Christian Graus wrote:

I said 'main', and I stand by that. For every person like you, there's a hundred just terrified that their kids might believe in evolution or hear rap music at school.

I don't know that I agree with your assumption. I've spoken with lots of people in the last four years about home schooling. The majority of those I've spoken with share the concern about the quality of education that I have. It may just be the circle of people I know and seek. But, my experience doesn't match your belief.

Christian Graus wrote:

But, I'd have preferred a non religious private school, there just don't seem to be any.

If I lived in NY there would be this.[^] Also, I remember that Marc C. sends his son to a private non-religious school. I wish I rememberer the name. But, when he first posted about it I recall looking it up and seeing that there are none in my area.

Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --?

Lost User

The children were seen by the Education Authority, and were much publicized (home ed. being uncommon).

Christian Graus wrote:

less child abuse was reported because of the same attitude

And child abuse by teachers was hushed up, by the State.

Bob Emmett

Lost User

Steiner Waldorf Schools?

Chris Austin

Thats it. Thanks.

Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --?

Christian Graus

Chris Austin wrote:

But, my experience doesn't match your belief

I have a business partner in Texas whose mother in law works at a Christian school. His experience and belief is that most home schooling in Texas is done for the reasons I stated. He also said that some states have stricter laws, others let anyone home school, the latter tend to be states where religion is the prime reason ( as it is in this case ). Am I right in thinking you're in Texas, or is it just that your last name is Austin ?

Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.

Christian Graus

I knew a kid who went to one of those. He was one weird guy. Not that I judge the whole school by this one person, of course.

Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.

Lost User

It certainly is a different method used at such schools, and they are not the only type. Also have a "google" for Montessori Schools.

Chris Austin

Christian Graus wrote:

I have a business partner in Texas whose mother in law works at a Christian school. His experience and belief is that most home schooling in Texas is done for the reasons I stated.

Like I said, my experience doesn't match yours. Since I knew we were having a child I started researching alternatives to public schools. I started contacting homeschooling groups, and private schools. I've sat down and talked with these people at length trying to learn what they do as well as what the do and don't like about the results. Again, it may just be the people I seek out and try to avoid vs the people that your business partner associates with.

Christian Graus wrote:

He also said that some states have stricter laws, others let anyone home school, the latter tend to be states where religion is the prime reason ( as it is in this case )

I have little doubt about some of those states. When I spent some time in the 7th layer of Hell a.k.a. Southern Alabama, I ran into more than my fair share of those folks.

Christian Graus wrote:

Am I right in thinking you're in Texas, or is it just that your last name is Austin ?

I'm in Dallas but not a native Texan.

Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --?

Christian Graus

Bob Emmett wrote:

But !IMO.

See, I'll admit that the US school system appears to be fundamentally broken, it's part of a general system that leaves the poor to suffer while the rich pay for decent services. However, if just any moron ( and this is not a personal comment, I don't pretend to know your motivations or to judge your ability to home school your kids ), can decide to teach their kids, doesn't that mean that either 1 - the job of teacher is meaningless, or 2 - some of these parents are, with whatever intention, bringing harm to their kids by failing to teach them the basic skills they will need to nagivate life ? In any case, if your schools and teachers are so bad, perhaps the problem is that people are not complaining about it ? I admit to choosing a private school, but mostly because the school my daughter was headed to in the public system, most girls leave early to have their babies and go on welfare.

Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.

Chris Austin

Richard A. Abbott wrote:

It certainly is a different method used at such schools, and they are not the only type. Also have a "google" for Montessori Schools.

Montessori schools tend to be highly respected for the quality of education. But, people are free to use the name and ride the coat tales of the reputation.

Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --?

Christian Graus

OK - I'd imagine that the people you'd meet would probably tend towards the same reasons you had, but again, I'm an outsider, so perhaps his perceptions are wrong and just stories like this one ( where they do seem to apply ) feed a general stereotype.

Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.

Christian Graus

Bob Emmett wrote:

And child abuse by teachers was hushed up, by the State.

Yes, there was a general problem in society which would have been reflected in his decision as well as in the way all abuse was treated at the time.

Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.

Christian Graus

Mike, I am sorry that you pulled out one part of this story, and made it sound as if the state was stepping in to interfere with a couples desire to home school, and then took no part in the discussion.

Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.

Lost User

I take your point about morons, but that is covered by truancy laws. The State can prosecute you if they believe you to be merely keeping the children at home. We maintained a record of work undertaken, to be produced as evidence were we ever to be prosecuted. We also communicated with our Local Authority, presenting them with a summary of the work.

Christian Graus wrote:

the basic skills they will need to nagivate life

Ambition, Distraction, Uglification and Derision. (Lewis Carroll)

Christian Graus wrote:

if your schools and teachers are so bad

Not our motivation. We wanted a more flexible approach to education: today's sunny - outdoor activities; today's rainy - written work.

Christian Graus wrote:

I admit to choosing a private school, but mostly because the school my daughter was headed to in the public system, most girls leave early to have their babies and go on welfare.

Very sensible, but think of those whose income doesn't stretch to that, what is their option?

Bob Emmett

Chris Austin

Christian Graus wrote:

In any case, if your schools and teachers are so bad, perhaps the problem is that people are not complaining about it ?

We can complain until we run out of breath and our fingers can no longer type letters to our civic leaders. But, in the meantime, what is a parent that doesn't have the money he or she needs to send their child to a private school supposed to do? Admittedly, this isn't my problem but I genuinely feel for those concerned parents.

Christian Graus wrote:

1 - the job of teacher is meaningless, or

It is when the focus of a state funded education is to pass a regime of standardized tests rather than gain a fundamental understanding of the topic. My sister is a 4th grade math teacher back in Phoenix and she more or less agrees with my point of view. She would tell you if you asked her that her hands are tied. They are not allowed to fail or hold back students without parental permission. Also, it's a open secret that the administrators encourage the slow students to miss the big standardized exams in oder to look better.

Christian Graus wrote:

2 - some of these parents are, with whatever intention, bringing harm to their kids by failing to teach them the basic skills they will need to nagivate life ?

I think this is largely a stereotype. Some of the brightest and easy to get along with people I knew when studying physics in Arizona where home schooled. These guys were fun, magnanimous and, the top of our class.

Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --?

Gary Kirkham

Christian Graus wrote:

and then took no part in the discussion

Maybe life prevented him from responding.

Gary Kirkham Forever Forgiven and Alive in the Spirit "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. Me blog, You read

Christian Graus

Yeah, I'm open to that possibility, I'm not accusing him as much as hoping that whatever the reason, he'll take the invitation to revisit the thread when he has time, and explain why he skewed the story the way he did.

Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.

kmg365

If the family wasn't broken, then there would be no court case and the state would not have to get involved. You allways roll the dice when you get the state involved. This problem is clearly the fault of the parents since they can't work out thier own affairs.

Oakman

Christian Graus wrote:

1 - " They have tested two years above their grade levels, she said." is this independantly verified ?

That's pretty much the standard for homeschooling vs. public schools. We looked into it pretty seriously, but my ex decided she wanted to keep working.

Christian Graus wrote:

the main reason for home schooling in the US appears to be to hide children from science.

Sorry, but you are dead wrong. The primary reason is to insure that the kids get a great education. There are plenty of Christian schools around that will skip Evolution in teaching biology.

Christian Graus wrote:

At the core, it's probably about two people trying to hurt each other,

I suspect you have hit the nail on the head

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

Oakman

kmg365 wrote:

This problem is clearly the fault of the parents since they can't work out thier own affairs.

it only takes one to make divorce a living hell for other parent and all the kids.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface