Tripe from the newsletter
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Esther Schindler[^] wrote a blog entry for Javaworld and it made it to the CP newsletter. I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that this is the same person[^]. What discussion prompted this flamebait crap to get included into the newsletter? But before I call any names, I'd like to hear some feedback: Do _you_ really need a college degree to be a programmer? Skip this next part & reply first! <rant> Her blog quickly turns into a straw-man parade. She dismisses the claims that college is an "achievement" and shows "commitment" with quick quips like, "shows the ability to do an all-nighter in pursuit of a good grade" and "is less a measure of commitment and more a measure of a candidate's parents' ability to pay tuition." "I suspect it's more likely to teach you how to drink" than how to think, she says. She relates how she knows an "innovator in the field of programming languages", but "he couldn't teach a class in the field he invented, because he never bothered to get a sheepskin." #define sheepskin BS|MS|PhD. I'll also mention that she suggest listing "advanced math concepts" as separate from "computer science", because they are in fact separate fields... right. "I'd argue that few college graduates get a holistic view of the field until they're out of school on their first job, busy un-learning all the technically interesting "techiques" they were taught, and finding out how programming works in the real world." Here's some news for you, Esther, not all college undergrads have rich parents. Neither do they party until November 12th, study for a week, and pass their classes. A good uni won't teach you cookbook techniques from O'Rielly's latest. There _is_ a lot of material available on the internet, especially for wanna-be coders, however an undergrad degree (which I can only assume you're talking about) is proof that a company won't be the candidate's "testing ground," to see if she really does like coding as much as she thinks. I took lit classes, history, music, chemistry, electrical engineering, physics, epistemology, and more. I don't just grok computers, I have insight on many things. I can talk to a person who works as a concert pianist. I can talk to someone e
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Esther Schindler[^] wrote a blog entry for Javaworld and it made it to the CP newsletter. I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that this is the same person[^]. What discussion prompted this flamebait crap to get included into the newsletter? But before I call any names, I'd like to hear some feedback: Do _you_ really need a college degree to be a programmer? Skip this next part & reply first! <rant> Her blog quickly turns into a straw-man parade. She dismisses the claims that college is an "achievement" and shows "commitment" with quick quips like, "shows the ability to do an all-nighter in pursuit of a good grade" and "is less a measure of commitment and more a measure of a candidate's parents' ability to pay tuition." "I suspect it's more likely to teach you how to drink" than how to think, she says. She relates how she knows an "innovator in the field of programming languages", but "he couldn't teach a class in the field he invented, because he never bothered to get a sheepskin." #define sheepskin BS|MS|PhD. I'll also mention that she suggest listing "advanced math concepts" as separate from "computer science", because they are in fact separate fields... right. "I'd argue that few college graduates get a holistic view of the field until they're out of school on their first job, busy un-learning all the technically interesting "techiques" they were taught, and finding out how programming works in the real world." Here's some news for you, Esther, not all college undergrads have rich parents. Neither do they party until November 12th, study for a week, and pass their classes. A good uni won't teach you cookbook techniques from O'Rielly's latest. There _is_ a lot of material available on the internet, especially for wanna-be coders, however an undergrad degree (which I can only assume you're talking about) is proof that a company won't be the candidate's "testing ground," to see if she really does like coding as much as she thinks. I took lit classes, history, music, chemistry, electrical engineering, physics, epistemology, and more. I don't just grok computers, I have insight on many things. I can talk to a person who works as a concert pianist. I can talk to someone e
I read the article earlier, and I honestly agree with some of her conclusions. I agree that many, but not all people who go to college as an experience. In the US, college has been raised up as the Holy Grail with kids graduating from high school, immediately moving on and starting their liberal arts education with no idea what they want to do. You see a lot of people checking out customers at Wal-Mart who are still trying to pay off their college loans. I do agree that someone needs to study to learn good programming, and I would also agree that most people don't have the inclination or self discipline to do that on their own. But in my own case I have a grand total of 16 hours of college credits, and yet I manage to develop and maintain a group of applications for my company that are very lucrative. I'm probably an exception, having a broad background in the military, electronics, and the HVAC industry that my application is used in. The point I got from the article is that excluding people based on the paperwork can lead to someone missing out on a potential employee who would be an excellent employment choice. I think that someone's degree makes a useful filter, but actually having them write some code probably would provide a little more insight into their value. Just my 2 cents.... :)
Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
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I read the article earlier, and I honestly agree with some of her conclusions. I agree that many, but not all people who go to college as an experience. In the US, college has been raised up as the Holy Grail with kids graduating from high school, immediately moving on and starting their liberal arts education with no idea what they want to do. You see a lot of people checking out customers at Wal-Mart who are still trying to pay off their college loans. I do agree that someone needs to study to learn good programming, and I would also agree that most people don't have the inclination or self discipline to do that on their own. But in my own case I have a grand total of 16 hours of college credits, and yet I manage to develop and maintain a group of applications for my company that are very lucrative. I'm probably an exception, having a broad background in the military, electronics, and the HVAC industry that my application is used in. The point I got from the article is that excluding people based on the paperwork can lead to someone missing out on a potential employee who would be an excellent employment choice. I think that someone's degree makes a useful filter, but actually having them write some code probably would provide a little more insight into their value. Just my 2 cents.... :)
Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
Doug Goulden wrote:
starting their liberal arts education with no idea what they want to do
That is hosed. If you don't know what you want to do, get an engineering degree. Than you have a job while you figure out what you want to do.
Silver member by constant and unflinching longevity.
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Doug Goulden wrote:
starting their liberal arts education with no idea what they want to do
That is hosed. If you don't know what you want to do, get an engineering degree. Than you have a job while you figure out what you want to do.
Silver member by constant and unflinching longevity.
While Joe Moron might not know what he DOES want to do, he very much knows that he DOES NOT want to do anything with that ICKY MATH he was always cutting in HS. Besides which, all engineers are losers who study all the time. Joe DOES NOT want to do anything that will interfere with his Friday night alcohol poisoning.
Today's lesson is brought to you by the word "niggardly". Remember kids, don't attribute to racism what can be explained by Scandinavian language roots. -- Robert Royall
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While Joe Moron might not know what he DOES want to do, he very much knows that he DOES NOT want to do anything with that ICKY MATH he was always cutting in HS. Besides which, all engineers are losers who study all the time. Joe DOES NOT want to do anything that will interfere with his Friday night alcohol poisoning.
Today's lesson is brought to you by the word "niggardly". Remember kids, don't attribute to racism what can be explained by Scandinavian language roots. -- Robert Royall
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dan neely wrote:
Besides which, all engineers are losers who study all the time.
umm what else was I supposed to be doing? Goofing off on some back room forum?
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Doug Goulden wrote:
starting their liberal arts education with no idea what they want to do
That is hosed. If you don't know what you want to do, get an engineering degree. Than you have a job while you figure out what you want to do.
Silver member by constant and unflinching longevity.
Engineering has math. Math is hard. I assume, they know at leas they don't want "hard".
Don't attribute to stupidity what can be equally well explained by buerocracy.
My latest article | Linkify!| FoldWithUs! | sighist -
Engineering has math. Math is hard. I assume, they know at leas they don't want "hard".
Don't attribute to stupidity what can be equally well explained by buerocracy.
My latest article | Linkify!| FoldWithUs! | sighistpeterchen wrote:
Engineering has math. Math is hard. I assume, they know at leas they don't want "hard".
:sigh: Ain't that the truth? When they don't know what to do, they do the easy thing, everyone knows it justs gets easier from there. I was going career military. I took civil engineering because I knew there was a chance I would change my mind. I did, and that decision keeps us fed.
peterchen wrote:
Don't attribute to stupidity what can be equally well explained by buerocracy.
Don't attribute to bureaucracy what can be equally well attributed to stupidity. :laugh: I've known some very capable bureaucrats, there to get the mission done. Not so the stupid. At least not capable at anything but stupidity.
Why does my ass hurt and what is that thing by my ear?
Wouldn't know the mission if it had 12 inch canines and bit them in the left buttock.
Silver member by constant and unflinching longevity.