A Big Win for Obama - but what's the prize?

Oakman

According to David Axelrod, senior advisor to the President, the President's eight-day sojourn in Europe was "enormously productive." Now that is good to hear, but I am a little confused as to what, exactly, it produced. Apparently, hearing Obama apologize for winning WWII produced enormous good will towards America. And that's great. Everybody likes to be liked. Certainly we saw one European leader after another fall over each other to get photographed standing next to Obama - although I think Sarkozy wanted to stand by Michelle. And that's wonderful, too. If all these political leaders jump on his bandwagon, it can't help but mean a new era of cooperation and friendship - right? But - Obama said that one of the goals of going to the G20 was to convince other countries to do their share in stimulating the global economy. It turns out that all those leaders that think he's photogenic, think he's full of shit when it comes to this issue. And - Obama said that one of the goals of going to the NATO summit was to convince our good buddies to contribute more than a pittance to the war in Afghanistan. He walked away with a total commitment from the 20 odd countries of an extra 5,000 men - most of who aren't combat soldiers and won't have combat missions. And - while he was in Europe, he got a chance to talk to Russia's and China's leaders and reach a greater depth of regard and understanding with them. Unfortunately they both turned around and ordered their UN ambassadors to make sure that when North Korea launched a missile and Obama said there had to be be consequences -- there weren't. It's not even clear that the UN will write them an angry letter. But that's okay, because Obama showed our true American mettle. When faced with the launch by a crazy Stalinist dictator of a rocket capable of having a nuclear warhead and hitting the extreme western parts of the US - he said, proudly and forthrightly, that this would be a great time to start getting rid of our missiles. Wow. It sure was productive, Mr. Axelrod. Like a fleet enema. And I can smell the bullshit from here.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

Rob Graham

I find Axelrod's idea of "enormously productive" to be enormously depressing political spin to a trip that was by any realistic standards an abject failure. As you pointed out, he did not accomplish a single one of his stated (pre-trip) goals.

fred_

1984-speak?

Vikram A Punathambekar

When was the last time you heard a politician come back from a foreign tour and say, "That was a waste of time, I wish I'd stayed at home!" ?

Cheers, Vıkram.

Carpe Diem.

Oakman

Vikram A Punathambekar wrote:

"That was a waste of time, I wish I'd stayed at home!" ?

Sarah Palin after the election?

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

Tim Craig

Oakman wrote:

Sarah Palin after the election?

Naw, she scored a really nice wardrobe out of it. :laugh:

"Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then they get elected and prove it." -- P.J. O'Rourke

I'm a proud denizen of the Real Soapbox[^]
ACCEPT NO SUBSTITUTES!!!

Mike Gaskey

Der Spiegel reports that German and French officials have begun complaining about Obama’s arrogance in injecting himself into a European decision[^] the reportage speaks to his trip to Turkey where he spoke on their entry into the EU (while appologizing for making war on Islam, a nonexistent war except in his own teeny mind).

Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.

Oakman

Mike Gaskey wrote:

Der Spiegel reports that German and French officials have begun complaining about Obama’s arrogance in injecting himself into a European decision

His saying he backed Turkey's admission into the EU was one of his biggest applause lines in Ankara. I'm beginning to think that's very important to our President - applause, I mean, not foreign policy.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

Rob Graham

Mike Gaskey wrote:

(while appologizing for making war on Islam, a nonexistent war except in his own teeny mind).

Well, having listened to a clip of exactly that speech, what I heard said was "The US is not at war with Islam", which is neither an apology as you describe, nor a false statement. That leaves unsaid whether or not we are at war with radical islamists who attack us in the name of Islam, or even whether the statement was anything other than pointless grandstanding... I don't care for Obama's excessive political correctness WRT the conflict formerly known as the "war on terror", but in this case, I think you are misrepresenting what he said, which detracts from your credibility and cause.

Mike Gaskey

Rob Graham wrote:

but in this case, I think you are misrepresenting what he said, which detracts from your credibility and cause.

Rob Graham wrote:

what I heard said was "The US is not at war with Islam", which is neither an apology as you describe, nor a false statement.

horse shit. there's no fucking reason to say it unless you're appologizing and baring your throat. he's a frucking moron and not worth the air he breathes while he's destroying our country with an avalanch of socialist statism.

Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.

Rob Graham

So, Mike, was it an apology and "throat baring" in 2006 when George Bush made EXACTLY the same statement? (first link I could find)[^] I think you're letting your rage get the better of your good sense. You are starting to sound like Oily does when he talks about Bush.

Bassam Saoud

Mr. Bush said it and he meant it to back his war against terror (or whatever motive he had). Bush's legacy is that: - He remained fully supportive of the efforts in Iraq - He remained fully supportive in preventing Iran getting nukes - He remained fully supportive of limiting Iran's power in the middle east - He remained fully supportive of democracry in the Middle East( as a lebanese, we always say thank God for G.W. or atleast some of us do) - He remained intolerent of countries that support Terrorism (Syria) If you listen to news today, its all about being "friendly", "let's talk" to Iran/Syria..

John Carson

I think the attitude that success constitutes America speaking and the rest of the world jumping into line is what was wrong with the Bush foreign policy. That sort of thing doesn't happen in the modern world. Successful diplomacy takes years, not a week. Obama got off to a good start building relationships. Give it a couple of years to see if those relationships can deliver something concrete.

John Carson

Mike Gaskey

Rob Graham wrote:

So, Mike, was it an apology and "throat baring" in 2006 when George Bush made EXACTLY the same statement?

no.

Rob Graham wrote:

I think you're letting your rage get the better of your good sense.

my good sense tells me we've elected a manchurian candidate. I have no respect for an American leader who believes it necessary to demean the nation by appologizing to curry favor.

Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.

Mike Gaskey

Bassam Saoud wrote:

If you listen to news today, its all about being "friendly", "let's talk" to Iran/Syria..

and it is a huge mistake.

Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.

Mike Gaskey

John Carson wrote:

Successful diplomacy takes years, not a week.

and it works until you look in the sky and say, "oh shit!". we've been doing the diplomatic dance on the issues of N. Korea and Iran for longer than I can remember. It has resulted in ???

Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.

Rob Graham

Bassam Saoud wrote:

If you listen to news today, its all about being "friendly", "let's talk" to Iran/Syria..

True, and as I stated, I don't much care for Obama's "politically correct" approach to the terrorism issue, and believe his reliance on diplomacy with Iran and Syria will fail. Nonetheless, It serves no purpose to excoriate Obama for saying essentially what Bush said; there's plenty else to criticize. I also disliked it when opponents stooped to calling Bush names, the same applies to Obama. The Office (and both men) deserves more respect than that.

John Carson

Mike Gaskey wrote:

and it works until you look in the sky and say, "oh sh*t!". we've been doing the diplomatic dance on the issues of N. Korea and Iran for longer than I can remember. It has resulted in ???

It is a non sequitur to think that limited success with one approach necessarily mean that it is the wrong approach. Some problems are intractable and won't respond quickly or well to any approach. Other problems are more readily soluble. So far noone has died as a result of North Korea's missiles or Iran's nuclear program. The cold war took a while, but victory was eventually achieved without going to war with the Soviet Union.

John Carson

Bassam Saoud

Its a mistake to you.. Its a catastrophe for my country and countries in the region

Bassam Saoud

Rob Graham wrote:

True, and as I stated, I don't much care for Obama's "politically correct" approach to the terrorism issue, and believe his reliance on diplomacy with Iran and Syria will fail

Time is money - This softness will make moderate muslims panic and go to be bed when instead they were in the offensive. Its a very slim line...