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  4. Auto Accidents, AIDS, Contraception and the Pope

Auto Accidents, AIDS, Contraception and the Pope

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  • I Ilion

    You're kidding! So, are you saying that a bureaucracy engaged in frankly unChristian (or even anti-Christian) activity about 500 years ago as a means of raising extra funding to further the goals and objectives of the bureaucracy? I wonder whether there were any repercussions to this activity?

    7 Offline
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    73Zeppelin
    wrote on last edited by
    #8

    The Pope is God's representative on Earth. Better take that up with him.

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    • 7 73Zeppelin

      The Pope is God's representative on Earth. Better take that up with him.

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      Ilion
      wrote on last edited by
      #9

      73Zeppelin wrote:

      The Pope is God's representative on Earth. Better take that up with him.

      So, you're going to punt?

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      • I Ilion

        73Zeppelin wrote:

        The Pope is God's representative on Earth. Better take that up with him.

        So, you're going to punt?

        7 Offline
        7 Offline
        73Zeppelin
        wrote on last edited by
        #10

        Ilíon wrote:

        So, you're going to punt?

        Depends on the context.

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        • 7 73Zeppelin

          Ilíon wrote:

          So, you're going to punt?

          Depends on the context.

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          Ilion
          wrote on last edited by
          #11

          Did the context somehow change in less than two hours?

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          • I Ilion

            Auto Accidents, AIDS, Contraception and the Pope[^]

            Suppose you make cars safer by requiring seat belts, collapsible stearing columns, and other changes that make it less likely that an auto accident will kill the car's occupants. The obvious conclusion, and the one many people reach, is that the highway death rate will go down. Sam Peltzman, in a classic article[^], pointed out that there was no good theoretical reason to expect that to happen. Auto accidents do not simply happen; they are the result of decisions made by drivers, such as how fast to drive, how much attention to pay to driving and how much to conversations with your passengers or listening to the radio, whether to drive home or take a cab after drinking a little too much. Making cars safer lowers the cost of dangerous driving; on the margin, drivers are more willing to risk accidents the less likely accidents are to kill them. So making cars safer results in fewer deaths per accident but more accidents. There is no theoretical basis to predict whether the net effect will be fewer deaths or more. ... I was reminded of this by a more recent controversy involving a different issue but the same logic. The Pope has, not surprisingly, come out against the distribution of condoms as a way of dealing with the AIDS epidemice in Africa—and, not surprisingly, been ferociously attacked for doing so. Just as with auto safety and auto accidents, making sex safer has two effects working in opposite directions. It makes the chance that a given act of sex will result in AIDS transmission lower. But, by lowering that risk, it reduces the incentive to avoid sex entirely, to avoid sexual acts such as anal intercourse that are particularly likely to transmit AIDS, to avoid sex with people likely to give you AIDS, such as prostitutes. On theoretical grounds we have no way of knowing whether the net effect will be more AIDS or less. It turns out that there is evidence that, just as in the auto case, the two effects roughly cancel. That, at least, was the widely reported con

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            Christian Graus
            wrote on last edited by
            #12

            I think this is BS on both counts. I don't believe that anyone takes risks while driving because they figure the car is safer, not unless it's a rental car and they don't care what happens to it. If you wear a condom, you have a barrier of protection. The only way that I can see anal intercourse with a condom passing on aids, is if the condom breaks. And, if you like it in the butt, you like it in the butt, people who pay a hooker are unlikely to not ask for what they paid for.

            Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "I am new to programming world. I have been learning c# for about past four weeks. I am quite acquainted with the fundamentals of c#. Now I have to work on a project which converts given flat files to XML using the XML serialization method" - SK64 ( but the forums have stuff like this posted every day )

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            • 7 73Zeppelin

              So, the possibility to absolve sins would give people incentive to sin more, right?

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              Christian Graus
              wrote on last edited by
              #13

              *grin* what confuses me is that Illion's responses show he is not Catholic ( you're assuming he is, a Christian would be opposed to all the Catholic practices you refer to in this thread, for roughly the reasons you're giving ), and yet he's backing the pope on this on.

              Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "I am new to programming world. I have been learning c# for about past four weeks. I am quite acquainted with the fundamentals of c#. Now I have to work on a project which converts given flat files to XML using the XML serialization method" - SK64 ( but the forums have stuff like this posted every day )

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              • C Christian Graus

                *grin* what confuses me is that Illion's responses show he is not Catholic ( you're assuming he is, a Christian would be opposed to all the Catholic practices you refer to in this thread, for roughly the reasons you're giving ), and yet he's backing the pope on this on.

                Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "I am new to programming world. I have been learning c# for about past four weeks. I am quite acquainted with the fundamentals of c#. Now I have to work on a project which converts given flat files to XML using the XML serialization method" - SK64 ( but the forums have stuff like this posted every day )

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                Ilion
                wrote on last edited by
                #14

                Christian Graus wrote:

                *grin* what confuses me is that Illion's Ilíon's responses show he is not Catholic ... and yet he's backing the pope on this on.

                Why does this confusion not shock me?

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                • I Ilion

                  Christian Graus wrote:

                  *grin* what confuses me is that Illion's Ilíon's responses show he is not Catholic ... and yet he's backing the pope on this on.

                  Why does this confusion not shock me?

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                  Christian Graus
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #15

                  Funny, I started with Ilion and decided it looked wrong.... I am sure you're capable of agreeing with the Pope on one issue without agreeing with him, wholesale. It's just interesting that people are assuming you're Catholic, and you do seem to keep circling around to this point. If I agreed with the Pope on something, I'd say 'well, I'm not Catholic and the Papacy is a sham, BUT......'

                  Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "I am new to programming world. I have been learning c# for about past four weeks. I am quite acquainted with the fundamentals of c#. Now I have to work on a project which converts given flat files to XML using the XML serialization method" - SK64 ( but the forums have stuff like this posted every day )

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                  • C Christian Graus

                    Funny, I started with Ilion and decided it looked wrong.... I am sure you're capable of agreeing with the Pope on one issue without agreeing with him, wholesale. It's just interesting that people are assuming you're Catholic, and you do seem to keep circling around to this point. If I agreed with the Pope on something, I'd say 'well, I'm not Catholic and the Papacy is a sham, BUT......'

                    Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "I am new to programming world. I have been learning c# for about past four weeks. I am quite acquainted with the fundamentals of c#. Now I have to work on a project which converts given flat files to XML using the XML serialization method" - SK64 ( but the forums have stuff like this posted every day )

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                    I Offline
                    Ilion
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #16

                    Christian Graus wrote:

                    If I agreed with the Pope on something, I'd say 'well, I'm not Catholic and the Papacy is a sham, BUT......'

                    But I'm not "liberal" ... so I don't need to do the shuck-and-jive. Unlike, say, Edward Keenan (in the review I linked to above[^]), I don't even need to point out that I'm not going to preface a point of agreement by noting my overall disagreement.

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                    • I Ilion

                      Christian Graus wrote:

                      If I agreed with the Pope on something, I'd say 'well, I'm not Catholic and the Papacy is a sham, BUT......'

                      But I'm not "liberal" ... so I don't need to do the shuck-and-jive. Unlike, say, Edward Keenan (in the review I linked to above[^]), I don't even need to point out that I'm not going to preface a point of agreement by noting my overall disagreement.

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                      Christian Graus
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #17

                      OK, so you're not 'liberal', so you don't care what people think about you because you have no standards to uphold ? Gotcha.

                      Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "I am new to programming world. I have been learning c# for about past four weeks. I am quite acquainted with the fundamentals of c#. Now I have to work on a project which converts given flat files to XML using the XML serialization method" - SK64 ( but the forums have stuff like this posted every day )

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                      • C Christian Graus

                        OK, so you're not 'liberal', so you don't care what people think about you because you have no standards to uphold ? Gotcha.

                        Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "I am new to programming world. I have been learning c# for about past four weeks. I am quite acquainted with the fundamentals of c#. Now I have to work on a project which converts given flat files to XML using the XML serialization method" - SK64 ( but the forums have stuff like this posted every day )

                        I Offline
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                        Ilion
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #18

                        Yeah, something like that. :laugh: Poor thing.

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                        • C Christian Graus

                          I think this is BS on both counts. I don't believe that anyone takes risks while driving because they figure the car is safer, not unless it's a rental car and they don't care what happens to it. If you wear a condom, you have a barrier of protection. The only way that I can see anal intercourse with a condom passing on aids, is if the condom breaks. And, if you like it in the butt, you like it in the butt, people who pay a hooker are unlikely to not ask for what they paid for.

                          Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "I am new to programming world. I have been learning c# for about past four weeks. I am quite acquainted with the fundamentals of c#. Now I have to work on a project which converts given flat files to XML using the XML serialization method" - SK64 ( but the forums have stuff like this posted every day )

                          I Offline
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                          Ilion
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #19

                          Christian Graus wrote:

                          I think assert this is BS on both counts.

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                          • I Ilion

                            Auto Accidents, AIDS, Contraception and the Pope[^]

                            Suppose you make cars safer by requiring seat belts, collapsible stearing columns, and other changes that make it less likely that an auto accident will kill the car's occupants. The obvious conclusion, and the one many people reach, is that the highway death rate will go down. Sam Peltzman, in a classic article[^], pointed out that there was no good theoretical reason to expect that to happen. Auto accidents do not simply happen; they are the result of decisions made by drivers, such as how fast to drive, how much attention to pay to driving and how much to conversations with your passengers or listening to the radio, whether to drive home or take a cab after drinking a little too much. Making cars safer lowers the cost of dangerous driving; on the margin, drivers are more willing to risk accidents the less likely accidents are to kill them. So making cars safer results in fewer deaths per accident but more accidents. There is no theoretical basis to predict whether the net effect will be fewer deaths or more. ... I was reminded of this by a more recent controversy involving a different issue but the same logic. The Pope has, not surprisingly, come out against the distribution of condoms as a way of dealing with the AIDS epidemice in Africa—and, not surprisingly, been ferociously attacked for doing so. Just as with auto safety and auto accidents, making sex safer has two effects working in opposite directions. It makes the chance that a given act of sex will result in AIDS transmission lower. But, by lowering that risk, it reduces the incentive to avoid sex entirely, to avoid sexual acts such as anal intercourse that are particularly likely to transmit AIDS, to avoid sex with people likely to give you AIDS, such as prostitutes. On theoretical grounds we have no way of knowing whether the net effect will be more AIDS or less. It turns out that there is evidence that, just as in the auto case, the two effects roughly cancel. That, at least, was the widely reported con

                            C Offline
                            C Offline
                            Chris Meech
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #20

                            Abstain from the use of a car. :)

                            Chris Meech I am Canadian. [heard in a local bar] In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. [Yogi Berra]

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                            • I Ilion

                              Yeah, something like that. :laugh: Poor thing.

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                              Christian Graus
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #21

                              Yeah, having standards and values is a real burden.

                              Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "I am new to programming world. I have been learning c# for about past four weeks. I am quite acquainted with the fundamentals of c#. Now I have to work on a project which converts given flat files to XML using the XML serialization method" - SK64 ( but the forums have stuff like this posted every day )

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                              • I Ilion

                                Christian Graus wrote:

                                I think assert this is BS on both counts.

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                                Christian Graus
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #22

                                You can't answer the points I raised, but you felt your semantics were worth sharing ?

                                Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "I am new to programming world. I have been learning c# for about past four weeks. I am quite acquainted with the fundamentals of c#. Now I have to work on a project which converts given flat files to XML using the XML serialization method" - SK64 ( but the forums have stuff like this posted every day )

                                I 1 Reply Last reply
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                                • C Chris Meech

                                  Abstain from the use of a car. :)

                                  Chris Meech I am Canadian. [heard in a local bar] In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. [Yogi Berra]

                                  C Offline
                                  C Offline
                                  Christian Graus
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #23

                                  *grin* that much is true.

                                  Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "I am new to programming world. I have been learning c# for about past four weeks. I am quite acquainted with the fundamentals of c#. Now I have to work on a project which converts given flat files to XML using the XML serialization method" - SK64 ( but the forums have stuff like this posted every day )

                                  1 Reply Last reply
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                                  • C Christian Graus

                                    Yeah, having standards and values is a real burden.

                                    Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "I am new to programming world. I have been learning c# for about past four weeks. I am quite acquainted with the fundamentals of c#. Now I have to work on a project which converts given flat files to XML using the XML serialization method" - SK64 ( but the forums have stuff like this posted every day )

                                    I Offline
                                    I Offline
                                    Ilion
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #24

                                    And you know this, how?

                                    C 1 Reply Last reply
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                                    • C Christian Graus

                                      You can't answer the points I raised, but you felt your semantics were worth sharing ?

                                      Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "I am new to programming world. I have been learning c# for about past four weeks. I am quite acquainted with the fundamentals of c#. Now I have to work on a project which converts given flat files to XML using the XML serialization method" - SK64 ( but the forums have stuff like this posted every day )

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                                      I Offline
                                      Ilion
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #25

                                      You didn't raise points. All you did was display your unwillingness to think about what you chose to dispute.

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                                      • I Ilion

                                        You didn't raise points. All you did was display your unwillingness to think about what you chose to dispute.

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                                        Christian Graus
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #26

                                        you have no standards AND you're illiterate. Got it.

                                        Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "I am new to programming world. I have been learning c# for about past four weeks. I am quite acquainted with the fundamentals of c#. Now I have to work on a project which converts given flat files to XML using the XML serialization method" - SK64 ( but the forums have stuff like this posted every day )

                                        L I 2 Replies Last reply
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                                        • I Ilion

                                          And you know this, how?

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                                          Christian Graus
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #27

                                          What are you, 8 years old ? You're the one who said you had no standards.

                                          Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "I am new to programming world. I have been learning c# for about past four weeks. I am quite acquainted with the fundamentals of c#. Now I have to work on a project which converts given flat files to XML using the XML serialization method" - SK64 ( but the forums have stuff like this posted every day )

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