Common Sense

Christian Graus

Mike Gaskey wrote:

it'll bankrupt the nation

Possible.

Mike Gaskey wrote:

and increase taxes to stunning levels

Also possible, it has to be paid for

Mike Gaskey wrote:

drive down the number of medical professionals

How will it do that, apart from stopping them from charging astronomical amounts for poor care ?

Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "I am new to programming world. I have been learning c# for about past four weeks. I am quite acquainted with the fundamentals of c#. Now I have to work on a project which converts given flat files to XML using the XML serialization method" - SK64 ( but the forums have stuff like this posted every day )

Mike Gaskey

Oakman wrote:

Hmpf.

missed it, sorry.

Oakman wrote:

a whole lot of reporting on that, from what I can tell

disturbing, wasn't aware. didn't even see it on FNC.

Oakman wrote:

I woulda given Oily's left nut

making an assumption here.

Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.

Mike Gaskey

Christian Graus wrote:

How will it do that, apart from stopping them from charging astronomical amounts for poor care

the investment of time that it takes to become a doctor doesn't make it attractive to work under the tether of a federal buracracy. simply isn't worth it so I would imagine budding careers will be redirected. pure cost benefit thought process.

Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.

Lost User

Wow, looks like you're hitting a sore spot with some of the folks from the States. I have no idea what Australia is like, but I watch both Canadian and American news, and the Americans certainly have an intensity about their news that we lack :laugh:.

- F

Christian Graus

OK, so you're saying that people won't become doctors if it means they are accountable for their actions ?

Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "I am new to programming world. I have been learning c# for about past four weeks. I am quite acquainted with the fundamentals of c#. Now I have to work on a project which converts given flat files to XML using the XML serialization method" - SK64 ( but the forums have stuff like this posted every day )

Christian Graus

Intel 4004 wrote:

ChitChatting in a confy hotel and riding around in the back of a car gives you little idea of American life. Until you grew up here, experience all levels of public schools, and worked most of your life here then you can pretend to know America.

What a pile of BS. I am claiming to know your media. And, I stay in an American home, with American friends. But, thanks for playing.

Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "I am new to programming world. I have been learning c# for about past four weeks. I am quite acquainted with the fundamentals of c#. Now I have to work on a project which converts given flat files to XML using the XML serialization method" - SK64 ( but the forums have stuff like this posted every day )

Christian Graus

ROTFL !!!!

Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "I am new to programming world. I have been learning c# for about past four weeks. I am quite acquainted with the fundamentals of c#. Now I have to work on a project which converts given flat files to XML using the XML serialization method" - SK64 ( but the forums have stuff like this posted every day )

Stan Shannon

Christian Graus wrote:

apart from stopping them from charging astronomical amounts for poor care ?

By reducing the level of care everyone else gets. There is a word for a form of government that redistributes wealth to ensure equality of outcome - its called Marxism. Freedom is a dangerous thing to have, people who cannot use their's wisely shouldn't live here.

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

Lost User

Mike Gaskey wrote:

the investment of time that it takes to become a doctor doesn't make it attractive to work under the tether of a federal buracracy.

You just get the medical establishment to buy ethically into universal health care as being a human right, then they'll just self-select people who believe the same thing into the profession.* And really, when you think about it - up here in Canada, doctor salaries are roughly 1/2 to 1/3 of what they are in the States, but do you really want a doctor who would have chosen a different profession because they're going to make $125,000/yr instead of $250,000? Obviously, the issue is way more nuanced than I'm making it out to be, but frankly, my general response would be "don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out." If you're smart, there are far easier ways to make boatloads of money (even in the States) than as a doctor. * I am completely serious

- F

Stan Shannon

Oakman wrote:

Congressional Progressive Caucus

I'm sure he wants to support them...[^] But, hey, lets not call them what they really are - Marxists.

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

Oakman

Christian Graus wrote:

But, thanks for playing

Did he win a booby prize?

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin

Christian Graus

Stan Shannon wrote:

By reducing the level of care everyone else gets.

I have been to the doctor in the US, and I don't see how that is physically possible. I get better care under 'socialised' medicine in Australia, by a LONG shot, even if I went to a cheap doctor.

Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "I am new to programming world. I have been learning c# for about past four weeks. I am quite acquainted with the fundamentals of c#. Now I have to work on a project which converts given flat files to XML using the XML serialization method" - SK64 ( but the forums have stuff like this posted every day )

Oakman

Stan Shannon wrote:

By reducing the level of care everyone else gets.

That does seem to be the Canadian system. (A Canadian friend of mine is celebrating - next month she actually gets into see an orthopedic surgeon - something she's been trying to arrange for the last 18 months since she was hit as she crossed the street by a teenager driving through a red light.) However, if I understand it correctly, in Australia, there is a basic minimum health care available that is paid for by taxes. Since not everyone works, but everyone is covered, this is definitely a single-payer national health plan. However, you can also get more/better health care if you've got the bread by buying additional insurance. Just as you can over here. As Rob pointed out awhile back, some sort of national healthcare would get the costs off the back of the business community, allowing them to be much more competitive with businesses in other countries.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin

Oakman

Stan Shannon wrote:

But, hey, lets not call them what they really are - Marxists.

Groucho, Harpo, or Zeppo? Personally, I think they're Lennonists. All sitting around smoking dope and singing "Give Peace a Chance. . ."

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin

Oakman

Christian Graus wrote:

I have been to the a doctor in the US and was amazed to discover that I wasn't going to be let off without paying for services rendered. I could have purchased insurance before I left but I gambled and lost and it really pisses me off when I lose.

FTFY ;)

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin

Lost User

Oakman wrote:

That does seem to be the Canadian system. (A Canadian friend of mine is celebrating - next month she actually gets into see an orthopedic surgeon - something she's been trying to arrange for the last 18 months since she was hit as she crossed the street by a teenager driving through a red light.)

And I know plenty of people who, say, need valve replacements who get them that week. Plenty of people who need knee replacements who get them within a month. Plenty of people with hip fractures that get repaired overnight. And plenty of people with orthopedic conditions that the literature suggests would be as well if not better served by exercises than surgery but would just prefer surgery because it's easier. Not saying that she's not being made to wait an awfully long time or being treated unfairly by the system because it does happen, but there are reasons to get surgery done and there are reasons to get surgery done. Unsurprisingly, you wait less time for the latter and I've rarely heard anyone bitch about them or one of their loved ones not getting into surgery quickly when it is unequivocally necessary.

- F

Christian Graus

I usually have insurance, but that's not really the point. The point is not the $500 a GP visit cost me, but the terrible standard of care that I got for my $500. How much does a real doctor cost in the US, right now ?

Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "I am new to programming world. I have been learning c# for about past four weeks. I am quite acquainted with the fundamentals of c#. Now I have to work on a project which converts given flat files to XML using the XML serialization method" - SK64 ( but the forums have stuff like this posted every day )

Christian Graus

Oakman wrote:

However, if I understand it correctly, in Australia, there is a basic minimum health care available that is paid for by taxes. Since not everyone works, but everyone is covered, this is definitely a single-payer national health plan. However, you can also get more/better health care if you've got the bread by buying additional insurance. Just as you can over here.

Yes, it seems to me that we have the best of both worlds here, I would not like to be under the Canadian ,OR the US system.

Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "I am new to programming world. I have been learning c# for about past four weeks. I am quite acquainted with the fundamentals of c#. Now I have to work on a project which converts given flat files to XML using the XML serialization method" - SK64 ( but the forums have stuff like this posted every day )

Captain See Sharp

Christian Graus wrote:

We don't have 12 trillion in debt.

We will soon with Obama's budget and all the spending going on.

John Carson

Oakman wrote:

Since Friday, the news shows, especially on the cable stations, have been yammering on about Swine Flu as if the 4 horsemen of the Apocalypse had been seen riding down from the clouds. My friends in Canada tell me it's the same there. Every year we have a real influenza epidemic. EVERY year thousands of people die from the 'flu, including 83 children in 2008. Yet there is NO panic, and people who are susceptible still don't get the shot. Yet if there was a shot for swine flu, these same people would line around the block for it.

I basically agree with you. However, it is worth pointing out that the flu epidemic that began in 1918 killed more people than WWI. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu[^] Accordingly, there is some basis for being nervous if it looks like an unusually virulent flu is on the way.

John Carson