My Question on Adoption... [modified]
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After talking with a lady here in Idaho who it turns out has helped get over 300+ kids both U.S. and foreign placed we have realized that we simply cannot do it. I want to speak to the votes I got. 2.5 average after 4 votes. This proves that the ... honestly the vote proves what it proves about people at the lounge. My reasons for asking here in the first place were: THESE ARE NOT MY POINTS. THESE ARE THINGS WE HAVE BEEN TOLD. 1. Adoption through agencies is not done for the benefit of the child. People are making tons of money off of it. It's immoral and even criminal. My wife and I were both opposed to going through an agency that feels it's necessary to charge $30,000 per kid because that's going to encourage abuse and criminalization in order to make that kind of money. 2. Using agencies kids are priced according to skin color, age, etc... The closer to white you are the more money it costs to get you. If you have a physical or mental disability the less money it costs. This should be illegal. To make kids feel that way is awful. We were hoping to get at least one hearing impaired child because as we understand it these are bottom barrel kids and we wanted to help. 3. Agencies lie on a regular basis about the child's history in order to get the child placed. 4. In America largely speaking the kids you get come from extreme abuse where drugs/alcohol were likely involved. So American adoption was out because of some extremely good reasons. In fact we were told to not adopt American kids at all until all of our kids were grown and out of the house. What I find amazing is that people trying to do something good for other people would pull such low votes. For those of you that did vote make sure you go home and thank God for the fact you know who your parents really are. Neither my wife or her brother have that luxury. After having had long talks with both of them I'm glad I know who both my parents are. I also am proud of myself that I did want to try and make a difference. In the face of today's corruption though... adoption is not feasible for us. Not yet anyway... Thanks for the low votes. It didn't bother me really but it should bother those of you who threw them. That's why I bring it up. Enjoy your well ordered lives and continue with your behavior. I wish I could talk to you in 20 years and hear how your views might have changed by your experiences. At least I never have to wonder if I was doing the right thing.:rose:
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After talking with a lady here in Idaho who it turns out has helped get over 300+ kids both U.S. and foreign placed we have realized that we simply cannot do it. I want to speak to the votes I got. 2.5 average after 4 votes. This proves that the ... honestly the vote proves what it proves about people at the lounge. My reasons for asking here in the first place were: THESE ARE NOT MY POINTS. THESE ARE THINGS WE HAVE BEEN TOLD. 1. Adoption through agencies is not done for the benefit of the child. People are making tons of money off of it. It's immoral and even criminal. My wife and I were both opposed to going through an agency that feels it's necessary to charge $30,000 per kid because that's going to encourage abuse and criminalization in order to make that kind of money. 2. Using agencies kids are priced according to skin color, age, etc... The closer to white you are the more money it costs to get you. If you have a physical or mental disability the less money it costs. This should be illegal. To make kids feel that way is awful. We were hoping to get at least one hearing impaired child because as we understand it these are bottom barrel kids and we wanted to help. 3. Agencies lie on a regular basis about the child's history in order to get the child placed. 4. In America largely speaking the kids you get come from extreme abuse where drugs/alcohol were likely involved. So American adoption was out because of some extremely good reasons. In fact we were told to not adopt American kids at all until all of our kids were grown and out of the house. What I find amazing is that people trying to do something good for other people would pull such low votes. For those of you that did vote make sure you go home and thank God for the fact you know who your parents really are. Neither my wife or her brother have that luxury. After having had long talks with both of them I'm glad I know who both my parents are. I also am proud of myself that I did want to try and make a difference. In the face of today's corruption though... adoption is not feasible for us. Not yet anyway... Thanks for the low votes. It didn't bother me really but it should bother those of you who threw them. That's why I bring it up. Enjoy your well ordered lives and continue with your behavior. I wish I could talk to you in 20 years and hear how your views might have changed by your experiences. At least I never have to wonder if I was doing the right thing.:rose:
I didn't vote you down either but from your post it is clear you want a perfect child too:
code-frog wrote:
4. In America largely speaking the kids you get come from extreme abuse where drugs/alcohol were likely involved. So American adoption was out because of some extremely good reasons. In fact we were told to not adopt American kids at all until all of our kids were grown and out of the house.
BTW, read up on Russian adoption if you really want to see what you can get with International vs. domestic.
Need custom software developed? I do C# development and consulting all over the United States. A man said to the universe: "Sir I exist!" "However," replied the universe, "The fact has not created in me A sense of obligation." --Stephen Crane
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After talking with a lady here in Idaho who it turns out has helped get over 300+ kids both U.S. and foreign placed we have realized that we simply cannot do it. I want to speak to the votes I got. 2.5 average after 4 votes. This proves that the ... honestly the vote proves what it proves about people at the lounge. My reasons for asking here in the first place were: THESE ARE NOT MY POINTS. THESE ARE THINGS WE HAVE BEEN TOLD. 1. Adoption through agencies is not done for the benefit of the child. People are making tons of money off of it. It's immoral and even criminal. My wife and I were both opposed to going through an agency that feels it's necessary to charge $30,000 per kid because that's going to encourage abuse and criminalization in order to make that kind of money. 2. Using agencies kids are priced according to skin color, age, etc... The closer to white you are the more money it costs to get you. If you have a physical or mental disability the less money it costs. This should be illegal. To make kids feel that way is awful. We were hoping to get at least one hearing impaired child because as we understand it these are bottom barrel kids and we wanted to help. 3. Agencies lie on a regular basis about the child's history in order to get the child placed. 4. In America largely speaking the kids you get come from extreme abuse where drugs/alcohol were likely involved. So American adoption was out because of some extremely good reasons. In fact we were told to not adopt American kids at all until all of our kids were grown and out of the house. What I find amazing is that people trying to do something good for other people would pull such low votes. For those of you that did vote make sure you go home and thank God for the fact you know who your parents really are. Neither my wife or her brother have that luxury. After having had long talks with both of them I'm glad I know who both my parents are. I also am proud of myself that I did want to try and make a difference. In the face of today's corruption though... adoption is not feasible for us. Not yet anyway... Thanks for the low votes. It didn't bother me really but it should bother those of you who threw them. That's why I bring it up. Enjoy your well ordered lives and continue with your behavior. I wish I could talk to you in 20 years and hear how your views might have changed by your experiences. At least I never have to wonder if I was doing the right thing.:rose:
code-frog wrote:
to charge $30,000 per kid
:omg: that's just not right, I thought adoption existed to help the children (and parents who can't have any) to have a better live. Forcing people to pay that amount results in one of three possible options: 1) the parents have enough money and can afford it. 2) the parents don't have that kind of money but really want a child so they go out and loan it, increasing there debt. (No matter how you look at it that isn't good) 3) the parents don't have that kind of money and can't/ won't borrow it so no adoption. (only in case 1 the child benefits)
code-frog wrote:
Using agencies kids are priced according to skin color, age, etc... The closer to white you are the more money it costs to get you. If you have a physical or mental disability the less money it costs. This should be illegal. To make kids feel that way is awful. We were hoping to get at least one hearing impaired child because as we understand it these are bottom barrel kids and we wanted to help
I agree with you that it should be illegal.
code-frog wrote:
What I find amazing is that people trying to do something good for other people would pull such low votes.
Don't let it bother you, people vote just to vote these days. I for one think that what you are / where trying to do is admirable. Now I'm going to go read your earlier post, that I missed somehow :)
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I didn't vote you down either but from your post it is clear you want a perfect child too:
code-frog wrote:
4. In America largely speaking the kids you get come from extreme abuse where drugs/alcohol were likely involved. So American adoption was out because of some extremely good reasons. In fact we were told to not adopt American kids at all until all of our kids were grown and out of the house.
BTW, read up on Russian adoption if you really want to see what you can get with International vs. domestic.
Need custom software developed? I do C# development and consulting all over the United States. A man said to the universe: "Sir I exist!" "However," replied the universe, "The fact has not created in me A sense of obligation." --Stephen Crane
Ennis Ray Lynch, Jr. wrote:
I didn't vote you down either but from your post it is clear you want a perfect child to
hardly... I didn't go into the reasons for why we were told that and what it implied. It would take a long time. We actually are looking for kids with physical disabilities. The problem in America is that... you know I'm just not going to get into it. We don't want a perfect kid at all. Trust me. We have one with a disability and 2 that are perfect. We learned about the depth and magnitude of love from the one with a disability. We also know that those kids are the least popular but you'll still pay $30,000 to get one. We just don't have that kind of money. The U.S. foster system... we were called by a case worker in the U.S. foster system. We talked with him for almost 2 hours. He told us some bizarre and scary things about what is being done to kids in the foster system and he said that it would do severe and possibly irreparable damage to our family and especially our kids and he went on to explain why. His arguments were extremely compelling. He said if you really love these kids wait til yours are grown and then come get them. In fact that's what they are starting to advise because 9 out of 10 times a family such as ours will foster a child only to give him/her back again and again. He said they are seeing more harm come to these kids because of well meaning families like ours than they ever dreamed of. He said imagine being given back and knowing you are not wanted. Instead they try to place these kids with parents who've raised kids of their own and understand the fully commitment of raising kids. Further parents like us, appraised of the full situation who come back after the fact (raising their own kids) to help by adopting a new foster family can in fact fully rehabilitate kids being thrown back and give them great lives. He said as successful parents coming back to foster a new family you will bless them. If you tried now while in the middle of raising your own kids our information indicates you will cause them greater harm. That's not at all what we want and the reasons he gave were extremely compelling. We are seriously planning to come back and adopt a full family once our kids are grown and we want to do it through the foster system. So we don't want perfect kids at all. Instead we want the perfect circumstances in our lives to bring these new kids into. There's a huge difference.
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After talking with a lady here in Idaho who it turns out has helped get over 300+ kids both U.S. and foreign placed we have realized that we simply cannot do it. I want to speak to the votes I got. 2.5 average after 4 votes. This proves that the ... honestly the vote proves what it proves about people at the lounge. My reasons for asking here in the first place were: THESE ARE NOT MY POINTS. THESE ARE THINGS WE HAVE BEEN TOLD. 1. Adoption through agencies is not done for the benefit of the child. People are making tons of money off of it. It's immoral and even criminal. My wife and I were both opposed to going through an agency that feels it's necessary to charge $30,000 per kid because that's going to encourage abuse and criminalization in order to make that kind of money. 2. Using agencies kids are priced according to skin color, age, etc... The closer to white you are the more money it costs to get you. If you have a physical or mental disability the less money it costs. This should be illegal. To make kids feel that way is awful. We were hoping to get at least one hearing impaired child because as we understand it these are bottom barrel kids and we wanted to help. 3. Agencies lie on a regular basis about the child's history in order to get the child placed. 4. In America largely speaking the kids you get come from extreme abuse where drugs/alcohol were likely involved. So American adoption was out because of some extremely good reasons. In fact we were told to not adopt American kids at all until all of our kids were grown and out of the house. What I find amazing is that people trying to do something good for other people would pull such low votes. For those of you that did vote make sure you go home and thank God for the fact you know who your parents really are. Neither my wife or her brother have that luxury. After having had long talks with both of them I'm glad I know who both my parents are. I also am proud of myself that I did want to try and make a difference. In the face of today's corruption though... adoption is not feasible for us. Not yet anyway... Thanks for the low votes. It didn't bother me really but it should bother those of you who threw them. That's why I bring it up. Enjoy your well ordered lives and continue with your behavior. I wish I could talk to you in 20 years and hear how your views might have changed by your experiences. At least I never have to wonder if I was doing the right thing.:rose:
This is a site for software developers, I think you have a hardware problem!
------------------------------------ "Children today are tyrants. They contradict their parents, gobble their food and tyrannize their teachers. I despair for the future." Socrates 400BC
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After talking with a lady here in Idaho who it turns out has helped get over 300+ kids both U.S. and foreign placed we have realized that we simply cannot do it. I want to speak to the votes I got. 2.5 average after 4 votes. This proves that the ... honestly the vote proves what it proves about people at the lounge. My reasons for asking here in the first place were: THESE ARE NOT MY POINTS. THESE ARE THINGS WE HAVE BEEN TOLD. 1. Adoption through agencies is not done for the benefit of the child. People are making tons of money off of it. It's immoral and even criminal. My wife and I were both opposed to going through an agency that feels it's necessary to charge $30,000 per kid because that's going to encourage abuse and criminalization in order to make that kind of money. 2. Using agencies kids are priced according to skin color, age, etc... The closer to white you are the more money it costs to get you. If you have a physical or mental disability the less money it costs. This should be illegal. To make kids feel that way is awful. We were hoping to get at least one hearing impaired child because as we understand it these are bottom barrel kids and we wanted to help. 3. Agencies lie on a regular basis about the child's history in order to get the child placed. 4. In America largely speaking the kids you get come from extreme abuse where drugs/alcohol were likely involved. So American adoption was out because of some extremely good reasons. In fact we were told to not adopt American kids at all until all of our kids were grown and out of the house. What I find amazing is that people trying to do something good for other people would pull such low votes. For those of you that did vote make sure you go home and thank God for the fact you know who your parents really are. Neither my wife or her brother have that luxury. After having had long talks with both of them I'm glad I know who both my parents are. I also am proud of myself that I did want to try and make a difference. In the face of today's corruption though... adoption is not feasible for us. Not yet anyway... Thanks for the low votes. It didn't bother me really but it should bother those of you who threw them. That's why I bring it up. Enjoy your well ordered lives and continue with your behavior. I wish I could talk to you in 20 years and hear how your views might have changed by your experiences. At least I never have to wonder if I was doing the right thing.:rose:
I just read both posts and I believe you changed the original one. I salute your feelings of wanting to affect a positive change in someone's life and more so that the someone in question is a child, more so, the child is one of the unlucky ones. I'm surprised and a bit amazed that you were getting down-voted because of your intentions. I don't know why, you're not the type that broadcasts ill will on all frequencies. I speak for myself, I think what you're doing (or wanting to) is brilliant and is a very humane thing to do :rose:
code-frog wrote:
1. Adoption through agencies is not done for the benefit of the child.
This is true everywhere.
code-frog wrote:
2. Using agencies kids are priced according to skin color, age, etc... The closer to white you are the more money it costs to get you. If you have a physical or mental disability the less money it costs. This should be illegal. To make kids feel that way is awful.
That, is nothing short of sick.
code-frog wrote:
In fact we were told to not adopt American kids at all until all of our kids were grown and out of the house.
I think that is an unfair generalization. I wouldn't know what the state of orphanages in the US are like, but I feel, possibly with great naivete, that this is grossly exaggerated. Bad apples and all that.
If the post was helpful, please vote! Current activities: Book: The End of Eternity by Isaac Asimov Project: Hospital Automation, final stage Learning: Image analysis, LINQ Now and forever, defiant to the end. What is Multiple Sclerosis[^]?
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I just read both posts and I believe you changed the original one. I salute your feelings of wanting to affect a positive change in someone's life and more so that the someone in question is a child, more so, the child is one of the unlucky ones. I'm surprised and a bit amazed that you were getting down-voted because of your intentions. I don't know why, you're not the type that broadcasts ill will on all frequencies. I speak for myself, I think what you're doing (or wanting to) is brilliant and is a very humane thing to do :rose:
code-frog wrote:
1. Adoption through agencies is not done for the benefit of the child.
This is true everywhere.
code-frog wrote:
2. Using agencies kids are priced according to skin color, age, etc... The closer to white you are the more money it costs to get you. If you have a physical or mental disability the less money it costs. This should be illegal. To make kids feel that way is awful.
That, is nothing short of sick.
code-frog wrote:
In fact we were told to not adopt American kids at all until all of our kids were grown and out of the house.
I think that is an unfair generalization. I wouldn't know what the state of orphanages in the US are like, but I feel, possibly with great naivete, that this is grossly exaggerated. Bad apples and all that.
If the post was helpful, please vote! Current activities: Book: The End of Eternity by Isaac Asimov Project: Hospital Automation, final stage Learning: Image analysis, LINQ Now and forever, defiant to the end. What is Multiple Sclerosis[^]?
I didn't change the other post at all. Not even to correct spelling. Read my above post and in reply to Ennis you'll see part of the picture in more color. Bringing those kids into a family going in one direction splits the family up. In some instances you *can* get everyone to go into the same direction but that's not easy and not common. We were told it's better to bring them into a setting that is their own. One in which they won't feel threatened by the natural kids or need to compete. It just made a lot of sense. Bring them out of that situation (foster/orphan/whatever) and bring them into a home where both the parents have been around and are fully prepared to help. In the same setting the child has the freedom and the space to claim his own life out of a house he/she feels safe and non-threatened in. It made a lot of sense to us. It's on our hearts to have a bigger family and why not do it in stages? Why not add on later and have the fun of it all over again? We are starting to make some plans, working with agencies and such for a "down the road" adoption. By not being in a big hurry everyone wins. We are kind of excited but it's going to be a ways off. Still, the things you want to wait for are usually thing *worth* waiting for.
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This is a site for software developers, I think you have a hardware problem!
------------------------------------ "Children today are tyrants. They contradict their parents, gobble their food and tyrannize their teachers. I despair for the future." Socrates 400BC
Nah... we have 3 perfectly good kids already. Now we are planning to get 3 more but later in life. ;)
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After talking with a lady here in Idaho who it turns out has helped get over 300+ kids both U.S. and foreign placed we have realized that we simply cannot do it. I want to speak to the votes I got. 2.5 average after 4 votes. This proves that the ... honestly the vote proves what it proves about people at the lounge. My reasons for asking here in the first place were: THESE ARE NOT MY POINTS. THESE ARE THINGS WE HAVE BEEN TOLD. 1. Adoption through agencies is not done for the benefit of the child. People are making tons of money off of it. It's immoral and even criminal. My wife and I were both opposed to going through an agency that feels it's necessary to charge $30,000 per kid because that's going to encourage abuse and criminalization in order to make that kind of money. 2. Using agencies kids are priced according to skin color, age, etc... The closer to white you are the more money it costs to get you. If you have a physical or mental disability the less money it costs. This should be illegal. To make kids feel that way is awful. We were hoping to get at least one hearing impaired child because as we understand it these are bottom barrel kids and we wanted to help. 3. Agencies lie on a regular basis about the child's history in order to get the child placed. 4. In America largely speaking the kids you get come from extreme abuse where drugs/alcohol were likely involved. So American adoption was out because of some extremely good reasons. In fact we were told to not adopt American kids at all until all of our kids were grown and out of the house. What I find amazing is that people trying to do something good for other people would pull such low votes. For those of you that did vote make sure you go home and thank God for the fact you know who your parents really are. Neither my wife or her brother have that luxury. After having had long talks with both of them I'm glad I know who both my parents are. I also am proud of myself that I did want to try and make a difference. In the face of today's corruption though... adoption is not feasible for us. Not yet anyway... Thanks for the low votes. It didn't bother me really but it should bother those of you who threw them. That's why I bring it up. Enjoy your well ordered lives and continue with your behavior. I wish I could talk to you in 20 years and hear how your views might have changed by your experiences. At least I never have to wonder if I was doing the right thing.:rose:
I saw your other post at work today. Was your figure of $30,000 for India? At today's exchange rate it is roughly Rs. 15 lakhs - insane. Don't get me wrong here, but your adopting another child can turn out to be very unpleasant for your biological children. I remember when I was ~16 and my aunt (father's own sister, no kids of her own, her family lived on the top floor of our hose) was thinking of adopting an orphan. I was privately extremely hostile to the idea. Obviously, now I can see I was wrong, but kids are like that sometimes. (In the end, she didn't, but not because of me.)
code-frog wrote:
Thanks for the low votes. It didn't bother me really but it should bother those of you who threw them.
As for the votes: no good deed goes unpunished. I am proud of you for standing to your convictions. (And on that note, I absolutely *love* Friends ;P )
Cheers, Vikram.
Current activities: Films: The classic Pink Panther series TV series: Friends, season 3 Books: Liar's Poker, by Michael Lewis.
Carpe Diem.
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I saw your other post at work today. Was your figure of $30,000 for India? At today's exchange rate it is roughly Rs. 15 lakhs - insane. Don't get me wrong here, but your adopting another child can turn out to be very unpleasant for your biological children. I remember when I was ~16 and my aunt (father's own sister, no kids of her own, her family lived on the top floor of our hose) was thinking of adopting an orphan. I was privately extremely hostile to the idea. Obviously, now I can see I was wrong, but kids are like that sometimes. (In the end, she didn't, but not because of me.)
code-frog wrote:
Thanks for the low votes. It didn't bother me really but it should bother those of you who threw them.
As for the votes: no good deed goes unpunished. I am proud of you for standing to your convictions. (And on that note, I absolutely *love* Friends ;P )
Cheers, Vikram.
Current activities: Films: The classic Pink Panther series TV series: Friends, season 3 Books: Liar's Poker, by Michael Lewis.
Carpe Diem.
Yeah if you read my reply to Ennis you'll see that I begin to shed light on that situation where it may not be so great for the biological ones. It puts tremendous stress on everyone trying to have a blended family where one or more of the kids don't have the confidence of knowing they are with people who loved them from day one. Down the road however, when our kids are gone. We could bring 3 new kids in all at once and really do something neat.:rose: The Indian and African kids cost the most. You know that most likely alcohol and drugs were not involved. The basic assumption (true or untrue) is that parents of kids from Africa/India do not have the money in most cases for food much less drugs or alcohol. So the farther away from the U.S. the children are the higher that number goes above $20,000.
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Nah... we have 3 perfectly good kids already. Now we are planning to get 3 more but later in life. ;)
Then Good Luck, Far too much like hard work for my tastes.
------------------------------------ "Children today are tyrants. They contradict their parents, gobble their food and tyrannize their teachers. I despair for the future." Socrates 400BC
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Yeah if you read my reply to Ennis you'll see that I begin to shed light on that situation where it may not be so great for the biological ones. It puts tremendous stress on everyone trying to have a blended family where one or more of the kids don't have the confidence of knowing they are with people who loved them from day one. Down the road however, when our kids are gone. We could bring 3 new kids in all at once and really do something neat.:rose: The Indian and African kids cost the most. You know that most likely alcohol and drugs were not involved. The basic assumption (true or untrue) is that parents of kids from Africa/India do not have the money in most cases for food much less drugs or alcohol. So the farther away from the U.S. the children are the higher that number goes above $20,000.
code-frog wrote:
Down the road however, when our kids are gone.
I suppose that's cultural differences at work. Here, kids aren't really "gone". The parents put the children through school and college, and the children take care of aged parents. While it's slowly crumbling in favour of the Western model of nuclear families, I have to say I strongly prefer the Indian way.
Cheers, Vikram.
Current activities: Films: The classic Pink Panther series TV series: Friends, season 3 Books: Liar's Poker, by Michael Lewis.
Carpe Diem.
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Then Good Luck, Far too much like hard work for my tastes.
------------------------------------ "Children today are tyrants. They contradict their parents, gobble their food and tyrannize their teachers. I despair for the future." Socrates 400BC
When Katie was born had we not wanted her, then nobody would have. We chose the hard work and it was the best decision we ever made. Now we realize that hard work can be way better than easy work. It gave us a great chance to learn about ourselves in ways we never imagined. Sometimes I think it's harder to do the easy thing (it can be so boring) than it is to do the hard thing but you'd have to know a lot about my background to understand that and I think maybe 3 people here actually know my whole story and 3/3 of them no longer are active here. So nobody here really knows much about my life that happened before 2001 and those parts of my life are where I learned some skills and thought processes that forever changed who I am and how I approach life.
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After talking with a lady here in Idaho who it turns out has helped get over 300+ kids both U.S. and foreign placed we have realized that we simply cannot do it. I want to speak to the votes I got. 2.5 average after 4 votes. This proves that the ... honestly the vote proves what it proves about people at the lounge. My reasons for asking here in the first place were: THESE ARE NOT MY POINTS. THESE ARE THINGS WE HAVE BEEN TOLD. 1. Adoption through agencies is not done for the benefit of the child. People are making tons of money off of it. It's immoral and even criminal. My wife and I were both opposed to going through an agency that feels it's necessary to charge $30,000 per kid because that's going to encourage abuse and criminalization in order to make that kind of money. 2. Using agencies kids are priced according to skin color, age, etc... The closer to white you are the more money it costs to get you. If you have a physical or mental disability the less money it costs. This should be illegal. To make kids feel that way is awful. We were hoping to get at least one hearing impaired child because as we understand it these are bottom barrel kids and we wanted to help. 3. Agencies lie on a regular basis about the child's history in order to get the child placed. 4. In America largely speaking the kids you get come from extreme abuse where drugs/alcohol were likely involved. So American adoption was out because of some extremely good reasons. In fact we were told to not adopt American kids at all until all of our kids were grown and out of the house. What I find amazing is that people trying to do something good for other people would pull such low votes. For those of you that did vote make sure you go home and thank God for the fact you know who your parents really are. Neither my wife or her brother have that luxury. After having had long talks with both of them I'm glad I know who both my parents are. I also am proud of myself that I did want to try and make a difference. In the face of today's corruption though... adoption is not feasible for us. Not yet anyway... Thanks for the low votes. It didn't bother me really but it should bother those of you who threw them. That's why I bring it up. Enjoy your well ordered lives and continue with your behavior. I wish I could talk to you in 20 years and hear how your views might have changed by your experiences. At least I never have to wonder if I was doing the right thing.:rose:
code-frog wrote:
Adoption through agencies is not done for the benefit of the child.
"May" not be done for the benefit of the child. I know people who have adopted through agencies and were impressed and pleased with the treatment they got. There are non-profit agencies, many connected with churches, that can do a good job. Of course, like everything in life, there are a spectrum of people working for these agencies from good and kind to utterly rotten and despicable.
code-frog wrote:
In America largely speaking the kids you get come from extreme abuse
I don't believe that's true. Some kids no doubt come from that, but there are a lot of normal teenagers who've made mistakes and aren't prepared to be parents. Moreover, talk to some people that have done foreign adoptions; it's not all a bed of roses there either. I recently heard an interview with a couple who adopted a child from Romania. After the adoption went through, they discovered their daughter had all sorts of very serious medical problems that had been hidden from them. They did some research and discovered that this wasn't unusual and is, arguably, the dark secret of foreign adoptions.. It is my personal experience that some people looking abroad or at another race have their ego wrapped up in this and aren't really being altruistic at all. I'm not saying that you are such a person, but that I personally know people who are. Other people may feel the same way and voted you low.
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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code-frog wrote:
Down the road however, when our kids are gone.
I suppose that's cultural differences at work. Here, kids aren't really "gone". The parents put the children through school and college, and the children take care of aged parents. While it's slowly crumbling in favour of the Western model of nuclear families, I have to say I strongly prefer the Indian way.
Cheers, Vikram.
Current activities: Films: The classic Pink Panther series TV series: Friends, season 3 Books: Liar's Poker, by Michael Lewis.
Carpe Diem.
Vikram A Punathambekar wrote:
While it's slowly crumbling in favour of the Western model of nuclear families, I have to say I strongly prefer the Indian way.
I couldn't agree more. I prefer the Indian way too. I don't want to be old and lonely. My grandfather died all by himself in his house 60 miles away. He fell and hit his head. Nobody knows how long it took for him to die. I think that is awful. My wife and I want to keep buying a bigger and bigger house because we really think that young American's take on way too much out of school. It's a massive burden to buy a home, start a family and all that. If we had a large enough home for our kids to have their young families in it'd be incredible. That's our dream. So maybe someday you'll come to my house and you'll catch us all sitting on mats and eating curry thoroughly enjoying each other in company. Once our youngest is 17 is when we are thinking about adding on to our current family.
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I didn't change the other post at all. Not even to correct spelling. Read my above post and in reply to Ennis you'll see part of the picture in more color. Bringing those kids into a family going in one direction splits the family up. In some instances you *can* get everyone to go into the same direction but that's not easy and not common. We were told it's better to bring them into a setting that is their own. One in which they won't feel threatened by the natural kids or need to compete. It just made a lot of sense. Bring them out of that situation (foster/orphan/whatever) and bring them into a home where both the parents have been around and are fully prepared to help. In the same setting the child has the freedom and the space to claim his own life out of a house he/she feels safe and non-threatened in. It made a lot of sense to us. It's on our hearts to have a bigger family and why not do it in stages? Why not add on later and have the fun of it all over again? We are starting to make some plans, working with agencies and such for a "down the road" adoption. By not being in a big hurry everyone wins. We are kind of excited but it's going to be a ways off. Still, the things you want to wait for are usually thing *worth* waiting for.
code-frog wrote:
I didn't change the other post at all. Not even to correct spelling.
I meant your previous post. And if that one line was what got you low votes, I'm shocked. It neither explains nor aggravates, what the heck did they base their votes on? :confused: Bringing kids into environments of their own is certainly makes sense. I didn't disagree with you at all Rex. What I found disturbing is that what you described effectively translated to orphanages selling kids. Also, I'm not saying that adopting a kid into your family is a walk in the park, far from it. I've volunteered at 3 orphanages here in Amman and I can tell you it is not easy or nice dealing with those kids. They feel so estranged and ostracized from the rest of society. Society doesn't make it any easier when it sets a double standard. They'll help out the kids with money and they'll offer prayers for them, but that's about it.
code-frog wrote:
It's on our hearts to have a bigger family and why not do it in stages?
Wise decision.
code-frog wrote:
We are kind of excited but it's going to be a ways off. Still, the things you want to wait for are usually thing *worth* waiting for.
Totally :)
If the post was helpful, please vote! Current activities: Book: The End of Eternity by Isaac Asimov Project: Hospital Automation, final stage Learning: Image analysis, LINQ Now and forever, defiant to the end. What is Multiple Sclerosis[^]?
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After talking with a lady here in Idaho who it turns out has helped get over 300+ kids both U.S. and foreign placed we have realized that we simply cannot do it. I want to speak to the votes I got. 2.5 average after 4 votes. This proves that the ... honestly the vote proves what it proves about people at the lounge. My reasons for asking here in the first place were: THESE ARE NOT MY POINTS. THESE ARE THINGS WE HAVE BEEN TOLD. 1. Adoption through agencies is not done for the benefit of the child. People are making tons of money off of it. It's immoral and even criminal. My wife and I were both opposed to going through an agency that feels it's necessary to charge $30,000 per kid because that's going to encourage abuse and criminalization in order to make that kind of money. 2. Using agencies kids are priced according to skin color, age, etc... The closer to white you are the more money it costs to get you. If you have a physical or mental disability the less money it costs. This should be illegal. To make kids feel that way is awful. We were hoping to get at least one hearing impaired child because as we understand it these are bottom barrel kids and we wanted to help. 3. Agencies lie on a regular basis about the child's history in order to get the child placed. 4. In America largely speaking the kids you get come from extreme abuse where drugs/alcohol were likely involved. So American adoption was out because of some extremely good reasons. In fact we were told to not adopt American kids at all until all of our kids were grown and out of the house. What I find amazing is that people trying to do something good for other people would pull such low votes. For those of you that did vote make sure you go home and thank God for the fact you know who your parents really are. Neither my wife or her brother have that luxury. After having had long talks with both of them I'm glad I know who both my parents are. I also am proud of myself that I did want to try and make a difference. In the face of today's corruption though... adoption is not feasible for us. Not yet anyway... Thanks for the low votes. It didn't bother me really but it should bother those of you who threw them. That's why I bring it up. Enjoy your well ordered lives and continue with your behavior. I wish I could talk to you in 20 years and hear how your views might have changed by your experiences. At least I never have to wonder if I was doing the right thing.:rose:
I was going to add a private note, but don't see how, so I'll add it here and ask readers to respect what I say without derogatory comments. If you are LDS, look into LDS Family Services which provides adoption services. A friend of mine adopted a girl through this service and had nothing but praise for it. (Yes, there was a recent well-publicized issue with an adoption, but once you read what happened, it could have happened in any adoption.)
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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code-frog wrote:
Adoption through agencies is not done for the benefit of the child.
"May" not be done for the benefit of the child. I know people who have adopted through agencies and were impressed and pleased with the treatment they got. There are non-profit agencies, many connected with churches, that can do a good job. Of course, like everything in life, there are a spectrum of people working for these agencies from good and kind to utterly rotten and despicable.
code-frog wrote:
In America largely speaking the kids you get come from extreme abuse
I don't believe that's true. Some kids no doubt come from that, but there are a lot of normal teenagers who've made mistakes and aren't prepared to be parents. Moreover, talk to some people that have done foreign adoptions; it's not all a bed of roses there either. I recently heard an interview with a couple who adopted a child from Romania. After the adoption went through, they discovered their daughter had all sorts of very serious medical problems that had been hidden from them. They did some research and discovered that this wasn't unusual and is, arguably, the dark secret of foreign adoptions.. It is my personal experience that some people looking abroad or at another race have their ego wrapped up in this and aren't really being altruistic at all. I'm not saying that you are such a person, but that I personally know people who are. Other people may feel the same way and voted you low.
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
You are right in every case but the kids you are talking about are usually gone by word of mouth before their bodies ever touch air for the first time. We are talking to 3 churches that we know and trust. What we concluded last night is things that were meant to happen generally will happen if you give them the time to happen. Things not meant to happen that you force to happen usually make everyone involved regret they actually happened. Rock climbing has given me a great perspective. I always climb with ropes, harness and safety in mind. But life is more like solo or free climbing. There are no ropes, no easy chalked routes up a crag and you have to feel your way. If in life as well as rock climbing you take on something your not ready for then you may get hurt or you may hurt those you never meant to hurt. So we are going to be patient now, not force things and just see what happens. As far as the "status" of having a foreign kid... to be honest the whole process is very scary. I don't think for a second I could do this for reasons other than wanting to help someone. The whole idea is terrifying. But I remember how I felt each time my wife wanted one more kid. It felt so scary to say yes. Now looking back it's not a big deal and I really miss the other kids that could be cruising around my house all day long. It's weird. They could easily be there. I could have 6 or 12. I'm not saying I want that but it's really wild to think about.
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I was going to add a private note, but don't see how, so I'll add it here and ask readers to respect what I say without derogatory comments. If you are LDS, look into LDS Family Services which provides adoption services. A friend of mine adopted a girl through this service and had nothing but praise for it. (Yes, there was a recent well-publicized issue with an adoption, but once you read what happened, it could have happened in any adoption.)
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
We are not but we think good things about the LDS people we know. I think for now we have lashed down the wheel on it's present course and we are just going to see where it takes us. Right now it doesn't seem to be heading anywhere but life is peculiar like that. Sometimes when you back off a bit more things happen than if you'd just kept forcing it and forcing it.
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After talking with a lady here in Idaho who it turns out has helped get over 300+ kids both U.S. and foreign placed we have realized that we simply cannot do it. I want to speak to the votes I got. 2.5 average after 4 votes. This proves that the ... honestly the vote proves what it proves about people at the lounge. My reasons for asking here in the first place were: THESE ARE NOT MY POINTS. THESE ARE THINGS WE HAVE BEEN TOLD. 1. Adoption through agencies is not done for the benefit of the child. People are making tons of money off of it. It's immoral and even criminal. My wife and I were both opposed to going through an agency that feels it's necessary to charge $30,000 per kid because that's going to encourage abuse and criminalization in order to make that kind of money. 2. Using agencies kids are priced according to skin color, age, etc... The closer to white you are the more money it costs to get you. If you have a physical or mental disability the less money it costs. This should be illegal. To make kids feel that way is awful. We were hoping to get at least one hearing impaired child because as we understand it these are bottom barrel kids and we wanted to help. 3. Agencies lie on a regular basis about the child's history in order to get the child placed. 4. In America largely speaking the kids you get come from extreme abuse where drugs/alcohol were likely involved. So American adoption was out because of some extremely good reasons. In fact we were told to not adopt American kids at all until all of our kids were grown and out of the house. What I find amazing is that people trying to do something good for other people would pull such low votes. For those of you that did vote make sure you go home and thank God for the fact you know who your parents really are. Neither my wife or her brother have that luxury. After having had long talks with both of them I'm glad I know who both my parents are. I also am proud of myself that I did want to try and make a difference. In the face of today's corruption though... adoption is not feasible for us. Not yet anyway... Thanks for the low votes. It didn't bother me really but it should bother those of you who threw them. That's why I bring it up. Enjoy your well ordered lives and continue with your behavior. I wish I could talk to you in 20 years and hear how your views might have changed by your experiences. At least I never have to wonder if I was doing the right thing.:rose:
I should add that if you want to adopt a 17-year-old, I have one. So you know, he thinks everything is stupid, wears his hair past his shoulders and wants a car. :)
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke