A legal question
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A few years ago, I was lone developer on a project that never really made it to market, b/c the company went belly-up. The project was mainly a prototype, but with some re-development and enhancements, the code base could easily be turned into a decent shareware product. I've looked around on the web, and there isn't a product similar to this one, and it would probably be useful to a lot of people. Is this legal? (I know, I know -- if you have to ask if something's legal, it probably isn't!) The company is long gone, and there's no trace of it or it's other products anywhere... Any other input? "Our contest is not only whether we ourselves shall be free, but whether there shall be left to mankind an asylum on earth for civil and religious liberty." --Samuel Adams
It all depends on what contracts you signed while at the company. Most likely you signed something like a NDA (non-disclosure agreement). If you didn't sign anything like that then you're most likely allowed to do whatever you wish since the owner of the company was too stupid to hire a lawywer or make you sign one. P.S. - I'm not a lawywer and don't play one on TV. Thus, this cannot be construed as real legal advice, and you can't blame me if any harm comes to you. As such, you should probably consult with a real legal attorney. :) Just in case...
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A few years ago, I was lone developer on a project that never really made it to market, b/c the company went belly-up. The project was mainly a prototype, but with some re-development and enhancements, the code base could easily be turned into a decent shareware product. I've looked around on the web, and there isn't a product similar to this one, and it would probably be useful to a lot of people. Is this legal? (I know, I know -- if you have to ask if something's legal, it probably isn't!) The company is long gone, and there's no trace of it or it's other products anywhere... Any other input? "Our contest is not only whether we ourselves shall be free, but whether there shall be left to mankind an asylum on earth for civil and religious liberty." --Samuel Adams
Morally: if there's noone else left of the company who would like to pursue this, it's ok. I'm uneasy at the thought that coder A put in all kind of extra hours, and moved on (maybe even without geting paid for the last two month); and now Beancounter B comes along and says "huh, I only need these old sources, and a script kid, to make a fortune". I don't know with your country, but as much as I understand it: if a company goes belly up, all worth is gathered and distributed between all creditors etc. What remains (assets or debt) IIRC goes to the owner or his heirs; but the heirs need not accept it. But if there's someone still paying debts for the belly up, the sources are most likely his.
Auch den Schatten will ich lieben weil ich manchmal lieber frier' Rosenstolz [sighist]
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It all depends on what contracts you signed while at the company. Most likely you signed something like a NDA (non-disclosure agreement). If you didn't sign anything like that then you're most likely allowed to do whatever you wish since the owner of the company was too stupid to hire a lawywer or make you sign one. P.S. - I'm not a lawywer and don't play one on TV. Thus, this cannot be construed as real legal advice, and you can't blame me if any harm comes to you. As such, you should probably consult with a real legal attorney. :) Just in case...
Ok -- I believe I did sign some type of NDA, but would it still apply if I re-wrote the project from scratch? I would have to make a lot of fixes to it anyway -- it's not a simple rename it, re-compile it, and repackage it... Is it true that "ideas / concepts" cannot be copyrighted, only work (such as code)? Thanks again for all the input! "Our contest is not only whether we ourselves shall be free, but whether there shall be left to mankind an asylum on earth for civil and religious liberty." --Samuel Adams
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Ok -- I believe I did sign some type of NDA, but would it still apply if I re-wrote the project from scratch? I would have to make a lot of fixes to it anyway -- it's not a simple rename it, re-compile it, and repackage it... Is it true that "ideas / concepts" cannot be copyrighted, only work (such as code)? Thanks again for all the input! "Our contest is not only whether we ourselves shall be free, but whether there shall be left to mankind an asylum on earth for civil and religious liberty." --Samuel Adams
Chris Hambleton wrote: Is it true that "ideas / concepts" cannot be copyrighted, only work (such as code)? I believe that is true. A rewrite, without using existing code, using the same idea should be completely legal. -:suss:Matt Newman / Windows XP Activist:suss: -Sonork ID: 100.11179
"You can't seriously believe that you could get away with suing someone over quoting text from a message posted in a public forum, can you?" - John Simmons -
Ok -- I believe I did sign some type of NDA, but would it still apply if I re-wrote the project from scratch? I would have to make a lot of fixes to it anyway -- it's not a simple rename it, re-compile it, and repackage it... Is it true that "ideas / concepts" cannot be copyrighted, only work (such as code)? Thanks again for all the input! "Our contest is not only whether we ourselves shall be free, but whether there shall be left to mankind an asylum on earth for civil and religious liberty." --Samuel Adams
Chris Hambleton wrote: Ok -- I believe I did sign some type of NDA, but would it still apply if I re-wrote the project from scratch? I think the NDA would still apply, but that's just my non-legal opinion -- 'cause I could be wrong. Usually there's an expiration date in the NDA. Usually it's anywhere from two to five years in the common cases. So if that time has passed then I think you could pretty much do what you want with the code. Chris Hambleton wrote: Is it true that "ideas / concepts" cannot be copyrighted, only work (such as code)? I think that's correct, but you would risk your previously employer making claims that your work is not totally original and that one can still find some of the original work in your new product. In that case, courts usually require that the source code for the two programs be disclosed and compared by an independent expert. I forgot the name of the case in which source code was being compared, but it was a fairly publicizied case a few years back. Large companies steal patents, ideas, etc. all of the time because they know that they will rarely be sued. And if they are sued that they have more money to go to court than the small guy has. Basically, my point is that you're taking a similar risk as the large companies, except you might not have as much money as they do to pay for legal fees. If you're really serious about it, then I suggest that you consult a legal attorney that is familiar with software intellectual property rights and NDAs. It'll probably cost around $150/hr for good ones, but the money paid will pay for itself in dividends if your products sells well -- plus, you'll sleep much better :) It should only take about an hour or two at most, so that's only around $300 spent which is probably a drop in the bucket for a programmer's salary. And is priceless when it comes to ease of mind when you sleep at night :)
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A few years ago, I was lone developer on a project that never really made it to market, b/c the company went belly-up. The project was mainly a prototype, but with some re-development and enhancements, the code base could easily be turned into a decent shareware product. I've looked around on the web, and there isn't a product similar to this one, and it would probably be useful to a lot of people. Is this legal? (I know, I know -- if you have to ask if something's legal, it probably isn't!) The company is long gone, and there's no trace of it or it's other products anywhere... Any other input? "Our contest is not only whether we ourselves shall be free, but whether there shall be left to mankind an asylum on earth for civil and religious liberty." --Samuel Adams
From what very little I know of intellectual property laws... It doesn't matter if you code for someone else the code is still yours if you are on a contract basis - regardless if they pay you for it or not. You have to explicitly sign an agreement giving ownership to whatever authority for you not to own it. If you are a full-time employee by a firm and are not contracted, then they pretty much own your stuff. Again, I'd check with a lawyer to make sure. If this shareware is profitable and is worth it, then a nice chat with a good lawyer shouldn't be more than $200. Good luck! Jeremy Falcon Imputek "In fact it is quite simple, men and women both only want one thing - what they can't have!" - phykell
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A few years ago, I was lone developer on a project that never really made it to market, b/c the company went belly-up. The project was mainly a prototype, but with some re-development and enhancements, the code base could easily be turned into a decent shareware product. I've looked around on the web, and there isn't a product similar to this one, and it would probably be useful to a lot of people. Is this legal? (I know, I know -- if you have to ask if something's legal, it probably isn't!) The company is long gone, and there's no trace of it or it's other products anywhere... Any other input? "Our contest is not only whether we ourselves shall be free, but whether there shall be left to mankind an asylum on earth for civil and religious liberty." --Samuel Adams
Imho, all software developed for a company is the property of the company. Unless you were a partner in the company, or your employee agreement specifically allowed you to pursue competing endeavors, I would think you would need the written permission of the owner of the company's IP, before you embark on selling/giving_away the product you want to build. Of course, you should really ask an IP lawyer! /ravi Let's put "civil" back in "civilization" http://www.ravib.com ravib@ravib.com
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A few years ago, I was lone developer on a project that never really made it to market, b/c the company went belly-up. The project was mainly a prototype, but with some re-development and enhancements, the code base could easily be turned into a decent shareware product. I've looked around on the web, and there isn't a product similar to this one, and it would probably be useful to a lot of people. Is this legal? (I know, I know -- if you have to ask if something's legal, it probably isn't!) The company is long gone, and there's no trace of it or it's other products anywhere... Any other input? "Our contest is not only whether we ourselves shall be free, but whether there shall be left to mankind an asylum on earth for civil and religious liberty." --Samuel Adams
It was an asset of the company, so if noone bought the assets then there isn't that much risk. Elaine (fluffy tigress emoticon) Would you like to meet my teddy bear ?
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A few years ago, I was lone developer on a project that never really made it to market, b/c the company went belly-up. The project was mainly a prototype, but with some re-development and enhancements, the code base could easily be turned into a decent shareware product. I've looked around on the web, and there isn't a product similar to this one, and it would probably be useful to a lot of people. Is this legal? (I know, I know -- if you have to ask if something's legal, it probably isn't!) The company is long gone, and there's no trace of it or it's other products anywhere... Any other input? "Our contest is not only whether we ourselves shall be free, but whether there shall be left to mankind an asylum on earth for civil and religious liberty." --Samuel Adams
Since the software, the design, and the source code, not to mention the deliverables, are considered assets of the company, you would have to find who now owns those assets, and get a hold of someone there with the legal binding authority to sign over the rights of the software to you. Otherwise, you *will* be guilty of copyright and intellectual property infringement. That being said, first, get a lawyer. Second, talk to the original owners and find out what happened to the assets - try not to give away why you want to know. If, after due diligence (see, you need a lawyer!), you honestly cannot find anyone to pin ownership of the code onto after serious trying, then you'll be on better (but not 100% firm) legal ground. Just remember - they successfully sued a guy for *thinking* about stuff on the job...
Visual Studio Favorites - improve your development! GUIgui - skin your apps without XP
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A few years ago, I was lone developer on a project that never really made it to market, b/c the company went belly-up. The project was mainly a prototype, but with some re-development and enhancements, the code base could easily be turned into a decent shareware product. I've looked around on the web, and there isn't a product similar to this one, and it would probably be useful to a lot of people. Is this legal? (I know, I know -- if you have to ask if something's legal, it probably isn't!) The company is long gone, and there's no trace of it or it's other products anywhere... Any other input? "Our contest is not only whether we ourselves shall be free, but whether there shall be left to mankind an asylum on earth for civil and religious liberty." --Samuel Adams
Contact a copyrighter. :-D Regards, Brian Dela :-)
