Holy crap!
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Fisticuffs wrote:
OT, but as she's someone who works quite a bit with autistic children, I'd be interested to know what your wife thinks about the antics of Jenny McCarthy and her anti-vaccine crusade.
I don't know who that is, but we have US friends who are not getting their kids vaccinated to avoid autism. I believe that if what he said is correct, then the number of vaccinations kids get in the US is probably insane, and bad for us as a species. My kids got what is the full round of vaccinations in Australia, and anyone who doesn't do that, is insane IMO. I also think a lot of people have no idea what autism/aspergers are. They are not diseases, they are states of brain function. It's also not all or nothing, it's a spectrum. I suspect that like ADHD, most kids diagnosed with autism probably have nothing major wrong with them, except perhaps being part of a species that evolved to function in a highly physical environment, and instead spend their lives watching DVDs and playing Nintendo.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Please read this[^] if you don't like the answer I gave to your question.
Oh, McCarthy is Jim Carrey's wife and an anti-vaccine activist who's been making the rounds on Oprah and the like. Thanks to her brand of misinformation, measles and whooping cough is making a comeback in certain pockets of the US. Glad to hear it hasn't really pervaded your neck of the woods.
Christian Graus wrote:
I believe that if what he said is correct, then the number of vaccinations kids get in the US is probably insane, and bad for us as a species.
Well, if it's the latest "too many too soon" bandwagon I can tell you there's really not a lot of truth to the claims. The number of challenges/organisms that a person's immune system encounters in a day is an order of magnitude more than the number of vaccines they'll receive over their entire life.
Christian Graus wrote:
I also think a lot of people have no idea what autism/aspergers are.
Also a very good point.
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But the 'left' defines itself, and it defines 'the right'. I didn't invent those terms. All I said was that christian fundamentalism is obviously always going to oppose abortion. Thats a given. Are you saying that christian fundamentalists are on 'the right'? How so? Exactly what do they promote that characterizes them as 'right wing'?
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Are you saying that christian fundamentalists are on 'the right'?
Um... duh.
Stan Shannon wrote:
How so? Exactly what do they promote that characterizes them as 'right wing'?
You really don't know ? What would they have to promote in order to be on the 'right', in your view ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Please read this[^] if you don't like the answer I gave to your question.
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'The right' as they so call it is the natural order. It is standard. It is what humans have been since the beginning of humanity. It is nature. It is what nature has been since the beginning of nature.
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Christian Graus wrote:
What humans were from the start, is kill or be killed.
Humans are still that way. I bet you would be *killed since you can't *kill. *kill/killed could be used in many contexts.
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Christian Graus wrote:
but we have US friends who are not getting their kids vaccinated to avoid autism.
Thats odd. I've lived here my entire life and I've never actually met anyone who does that.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
I was in Texas.... Hell of a nice guy, he's smart, too. He's done some research and somehow decided that's right, and the way he tells it, he's probably right. He's getting vaccinations, just selectively. I've only heard his side, so I am on the fence in his case, but overall against any nut job who gives their kids NO vaccinations.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Please read this[^] if you don't like the answer I gave to your question.
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Stan Shannon wrote:
Are you saying that christian fundamentalists are on 'the right'?
Um... duh.
Stan Shannon wrote:
How so? Exactly what do they promote that characterizes them as 'right wing'?
You really don't know ? What would they have to promote in order to be on the 'right', in your view ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Please read this[^] if you don't like the answer I gave to your question.
Christian Graus wrote:
You really don't know ?
Actually, I am quite perplexed by it. And I always have been. It is the original question that began turning me into a conservative.
Christian Graus wrote:
What would they have to promote in order to be on the 'right', in your view ?
I don't know. I hardly see how someone saying that life should be protected even when it is in the womb ends up on the same side of the political spectrum as Adolph Hitler. I don't necessarily agree with that fundamentalist perspective, but I'm stumped as to how anyone could catalog it politically along side Nazism.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Oh, McCarthy is Jim Carrey's wife and an anti-vaccine activist who's been making the rounds on Oprah and the like. Thanks to her brand of misinformation, measles and whooping cough is making a comeback in certain pockets of the US. Glad to hear it hasn't really pervaded your neck of the woods.
Christian Graus wrote:
I believe that if what he said is correct, then the number of vaccinations kids get in the US is probably insane, and bad for us as a species.
Well, if it's the latest "too many too soon" bandwagon I can tell you there's really not a lot of truth to the claims. The number of challenges/organisms that a person's immune system encounters in a day is an order of magnitude more than the number of vaccines they'll receive over their entire life.
Christian Graus wrote:
I also think a lot of people have no idea what autism/aspergers are.
Also a very good point.
- F
Fisticuffs wrote:
The number of challenges/organisms that a person's immune system encounters in a day is an order of magnitude more than the number of vaccines they'll receive over their entire life.
Sure - his point was that a lot of them were vaccinating against things that are not life threatening. He said he would ask 'what if we don't do this and he gets this disease' and the answer was 'he'll feel a bit sick for a few days'. If that is true, why vaccinate ? Like I said above, I've only heard his side, and I would default towards 'do what the doctor recommends', but if he's right, I would agree that it's silly to vaccinate for things that are not really that bad.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Please read this[^] if you don't like the answer I gave to your question.
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Christian Graus wrote:
What humans were from the start, is kill or be killed.
Humans are still that way. I bet you would be *killed since you can't *kill. *kill/killed could be used in many contexts.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
I bet you would be *killed since you can't *kill.
I think you'd be surprised what I can do when threatened. Don't make the mistake of thinking that because I support the rights of the weak, that I am weak myself. I am not. I've had kids your age try to threaten me with knives and so on, I just kept coming, and they ran. I don't take any crap.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Please read this[^] if you don't like the answer I gave to your question.
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I was in Texas.... Hell of a nice guy, he's smart, too. He's done some research and somehow decided that's right, and the way he tells it, he's probably right. He's getting vaccinations, just selectively. I've only heard his side, so I am on the fence in his case, but overall against any nut job who gives their kids NO vaccinations.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Please read this[^] if you don't like the answer I gave to your question.
Christian Graus wrote:
so I am on the fence in his case, but overall against any nut job who gives their kids NO vaccinations.
As am I sure most AMericans are. I suppose we don't tend to be as intellectually monolithic as Australians.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
I bet you would be *killed since you can't *kill.
I think you'd be surprised what I can do when threatened. Don't make the mistake of thinking that because I support the rights of the weak, that I am weak myself. I am not. I've had kids your age try to threaten me with knives and so on, I just kept coming, and they ran. I don't take any crap.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Please read this[^] if you don't like the answer I gave to your question.
Christian Graus wrote:
I've had kids your age try to threaten me with knives and so on, I just kept coming
If they were serious you wouldn't be so bold.
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Christian Graus wrote:
I've had kids your age try to threaten me with knives and so on, I just kept coming
If they were serious you wouldn't be so bold.
To be honest, my judgement of them was that they were just kids and I wasn't going to stopped by them. However, the point is, I'll fight if I need to, and if things were that bad, I'd be armed from the start, and ready to defend myself.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Please read this[^] if you don't like the answer I gave to your question.
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To be honest, my judgement of them was that they were just kids and I wasn't going to stopped by them. However, the point is, I'll fight if I need to, and if things were that bad, I'd be armed from the start, and ready to defend myself.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Please read this[^] if you don't like the answer I gave to your question.
Christian Graus wrote:
I'd be armed from the start, and ready to defend myself.
That's a change. You used to be appalled at the idea.
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Christian Graus wrote:
You really don't know ?
Actually, I am quite perplexed by it. And I always have been. It is the original question that began turning me into a conservative.
Christian Graus wrote:
What would they have to promote in order to be on the 'right', in your view ?
I don't know. I hardly see how someone saying that life should be protected even when it is in the womb ends up on the same side of the political spectrum as Adolph Hitler. I don't necessarily agree with that fundamentalist perspective, but I'm stumped as to how anyone could catalog it politically along side Nazism.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Stan Shannon wrote:
I hardly see how someone saying that life should be protected even when it is in the womb ends up on the same side of the political spectrum as Adolph Hitler.
I can see how someone who thinks life should be protected in the womb, but the state should kill people, being on the same spectrum as Hitler, although obviously being on the same spectrum, and being the same, are two different things.
Stan Shannon wrote:
but I'm stumped as to how anyone could catalog it politically along side Nazism.
Cataloguing anything as Nazism is a cheap shot, and largely meaningless. That the Nazis were an extreme does not mean that anyone less extreme, is not on the right.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Please read this[^] if you don't like the answer I gave to your question.
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Christian Graus wrote:
I'd be armed from the start, and ready to defend myself.
That's a change. You used to be appalled at the idea.
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Christian Graus wrote:
so I am on the fence in his case, but overall against any nut job who gives their kids NO vaccinations.
As am I sure most AMericans are. I suppose we don't tend to be as intellectually monolithic as Australians.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Stan Shannon wrote:
I suppose we don't tend to be as intellectually monolithic as Australians.
*grin* I'm not sure what that means.
Stan Shannon wrote:
As am I sure most AMericans are
No doubt. I explicitly stated I knew of one person who held this view, and that while I consider him intelligent, I am not sure about his case, because I've not been able to examine alternative viewpoints to what he told me.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Please read this[^] if you don't like the answer I gave to your question.
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You cant defend yourself though. Your government won't let you. Maybe someday you will be ready for a Wake Up Call[^]
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You cant defend yourself though. Your government won't let you. Maybe someday you will be ready for a Wake Up Call[^]
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
You cant defend yourself though. Your government won't let you
What a pile of ignorant BS
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
Maybe someday you will be ready for a Wake Up Call[^]
Yeah, if I suffer a brain injury, I may start to buy into this stuff. Or if I lose my job, my family and my money, AND my self will, then I'd be ripe pickings for these people. Just like you.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Please read this[^] if you don't like the answer I gave to your question.
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Stan Shannon wrote:
I hardly see how someone saying that life should be protected even when it is in the womb ends up on the same side of the political spectrum as Adolph Hitler.
I can see how someone who thinks life should be protected in the womb, but the state should kill people, being on the same spectrum as Hitler, although obviously being on the same spectrum, and being the same, are two different things.
Stan Shannon wrote:
but I'm stumped as to how anyone could catalog it politically along side Nazism.
Cataloguing anything as Nazism is a cheap shot, and largely meaningless. That the Nazis were an extreme does not mean that anyone less extreme, is not on the right.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Please read this[^] if you don't like the answer I gave to your question.
Christian Graus wrote:
can see how someone who thinks life should be protected in the womb, but the state should kill people, being on the same spectrum as Hitler, although obviously being on the same spectrum, and being the same, are two different things.
That still makes no sense. You are saying that someone who believes that the innocent should be spared, but the guilty should be executed according to a carefully defined system of laws is equivalent to extermination of millions in death camps with no access to justice of any kind. I see no political similarities between those two things at all. Not even remotely. What I do see, however, is an attempt to associat the things you disagree with with the most extreme examples of babarism in the modern world, and I think that is for purely political reasons. That is precisely what 'the right' is - a place to catalog those the self styled 'left' disagrees with. Everyone who dares challange any aspect of collectivism ends up in the same smelly little place.
Christian Graus wrote:
Cataloguing anything as Nazism is a cheap shot, and largely meaningless. That the Nazis were an extreme does not mean that anyone less extreme, is not on the right.
Yet oh so convenient.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Christian Graus wrote:
can see how someone who thinks life should be protected in the womb, but the state should kill people, being on the same spectrum as Hitler, although obviously being on the same spectrum, and being the same, are two different things.
That still makes no sense. You are saying that someone who believes that the innocent should be spared, but the guilty should be executed according to a carefully defined system of laws is equivalent to extermination of millions in death camps with no access to justice of any kind. I see no political similarities between those two things at all. Not even remotely. What I do see, however, is an attempt to associat the things you disagree with with the most extreme examples of babarism in the modern world, and I think that is for purely political reasons. That is precisely what 'the right' is - a place to catalog those the self styled 'left' disagrees with. Everyone who dares challange any aspect of collectivism ends up in the same smelly little place.
Christian Graus wrote:
Cataloguing anything as Nazism is a cheap shot, and largely meaningless. That the Nazis were an extreme does not mean that anyone less extreme, is not on the right.
Yet oh so convenient.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Stan Shannon wrote:
You are saying that someone who believes that the innocent should be spared, but the guilty should be executed according to a carefully defined system of laws is equivalent to extermination of millions in death camps with no access to justice of any kind
No, I didn't say that. I said it was on the same scale.
Stan Shannon wrote:
What I do see, however, is an attempt to associat the things you disagree with with the most extreme examples of babarism in the modern world, and I think that is for purely political reasons.
I thought I was careful to differentiate between saying they were on the same side of the political spectrum, and saying they were equal, which they plainly are not.
Stan Shannon wrote:
That is precisely what 'the right' is - a place to catalog those the self styled 'left' disagrees with.
One suspects that the brutalism of the right is probably what society started with, and in that sense, it's probably true that the left defines the right, until there is opposition, the one view that exists, does not need to be categorised.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Yet oh so convenient.
Ah - see, I did say that. And, it's true. The idea that the state can decide who lives and dies, is still a common thread between nazism and the right. And, in both cases, innocents die.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Please read this[^] if you don't like the answer I gave to your question.
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CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
You cant defend yourself though. Your government won't let you
What a pile of ignorant BS
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
Maybe someday you will be ready for a Wake Up Call[^]
Yeah, if I suffer a brain injury, I may start to buy into this stuff. Or if I lose my job, my family and my money, AND my self will, then I'd be ripe pickings for these people. Just like you.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Please read this[^] if you don't like the answer I gave to your question.
Christian Graus wrote:
What a pile of ignorant BS
:laugh:
Christian Graus wrote:
Yeah, if I suffer a brain injury, I may start to buy into this stuff. Or if I lose my job, my family and my money, AND my self will, then I'd be ripe pickings for these people. Just like you.
So as long as you have your own little world to live in, nothing else matters. I know how that is, back when I had money I didn't give a shit about the who what when where how, as long as I could buy my happiness wrapped in plastic made in china.