Unintended consequences
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Ilíon wrote:
"We" don't own Microsoft. "We" don't own the jobs Microsoft provides to whomever they choose to provide them.
So long as the people at Microsoft who choose to live in the US pay their fair share of taxes, I would tend to agree. But, I would also say that the government, as a big potential client, as the right to push for the best deal, just as Microsoft is free to seek the best deal for itself.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Please read this[^] if you don't like the answer I gave to your question. "! i don't exactly like or do programming and it only gives me a headache." - spotted in VB forums.
Christian Graus wrote:
But, I would also say that the government, as a big potential client, as the right to push for the best deal, just as Microsoft is free to seek the best deal for itself.
It is the *obligation* of government to get the best deal -- to spend the taxpayers' money most wisely. Therefore, governmental "buy local" drives are almost always immoral.
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Christian Graus wrote:
why didn't China and India benefit from the US's glory days as a powerhouse economy ?
Becaue we were still capitalistic society, there was no reason for the wealth to flee our shores. Wealth was largely respected and nurtured.
Christian Graus wrote:
Because you have a twisted world view.
The only demonstrably successful economic model on the planet is that which the US has had for most of its history. Every other model has failed. The only thing thats twisted is the notion that socialism is or can be successful. When the poor are eating each other because of it just rember that it was all your fault.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
But when the are eating Soylent Green, it's everybody's fault.
You really gotta try harder to keep up with everyone that's not on the short bus with you. - John Simmons / outlaw programmer.
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Microsoft to move more jobs offshore if 0 gets his way on taxes.[^] guess that is what we should expect after 52.9% of the voting public elect a teleprompter.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
And when the nuculear war starts between a radicalised Pakistan (and yes, the Taliban DID rake over Afghanistan, a country as open and prosperous as one could expect at the time and not unlike Pakistan today) and India, then the IDC at Hyderabad is going to get turned to dust. One question though, if foreign products have a hefty inmport duty wont this offset any gains or are those duties avoided?
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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Oakman wrote:
Is it okay to get goods cheaply when they are made by slaves now?
find me a company that uses slaves and I will not buy their products. but don't give me, "economic slaves" because that puts them in the same category as you and I, merely on a different level.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
find me a company that uses slaves
You know it goes on all over India. You know it goes on all over China. You want to play word games go talk to CSS and Ilion. You want to discuss issues, get back to me.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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And when the nuculear war starts between a radicalised Pakistan (and yes, the Taliban DID rake over Afghanistan, a country as open and prosperous as one could expect at the time and not unlike Pakistan today) and India, then the IDC at Hyderabad is going to get turned to dust. One question though, if foreign products have a hefty inmport duty wont this offset any gains or are those duties avoided?
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
fat_boy wrote:
a radicalised Pakistan
Isn't that redundant? They've been radicalized since the country was created.
fat_boy wrote:
IDC at Hyderabad is going to get turned to dust
That's always been a risk the average Harvard MBA has not considered.
fat_boy wrote:
One question though, if foreign products have a hefty inmport duty wont this offset any gains or are those duties avoided?
It will increase the cost of cheap, shoddily made, goods like those sold in Walmart. But with a booming economy, increasing reeal wages as opposed to the phoney boom of increased credit and decreasing real wages people will be able to afford it. Only the economic illiterates think what is going on now is good for the USA. The senior management of corporations like Microsoft know it isn't and don't give a damn.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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Ilíon wrote:
"We" don't own Microsoft. "We" don't own the jobs Microsoft provides to whomever they choose to provide them.
So long as the people at Microsoft who choose to live in the US pay their fair share of taxes, I would tend to agree. But, I would also say that the government, as a big potential client, as the right to push for the best deal, just as Microsoft is free to seek the best deal for itself.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Please read this[^] if you don't like the answer I gave to your question. "! i don't exactly like or do programming and it only gives me a headache." - spotted in VB forums.
Christian Graus wrote:
So long as the people at Microsoft who choose to live in the US pay their fair share of taxes, I would tend to agree. But, I would also say that the government, as a big potential client, as the right to push for the best deal, just as Microsoft is free to seek the best deal for itself
Absolutely right. And the people in the U.S. have the right to rearrange the terms of the deal for companies that choose to import their products from foreigners. (Ditto, folks in Oz.) There's no requirement in the Constitution that requires this country to commit economic suicide to enable folks like Balmer and Gates to become richer than they already are.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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Stan Shannon wrote:
Becaue we were still capitalistic society, there was no reason for the wealth to flee our shores. Wealth was largely respected and nurtured.
So, you're saying that another country making money DOESN'T guarantee good things for your country ? Then you're contradicting yourself.
Stan Shannon wrote:
The only thing thats twisted is the notion that socialism is or can be successful
What's twisted is your ability to see socialism literally everywhere.
Stan Shannon wrote:
When the poor are eating each other because of it just rember that it was all your fault.
Well, unless the government organises collective farms, people will always be able to eat, at least, people with land will.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Please read this[^] if you don't like the answer I gave to your question. "! i don't exactly like or do programming and it only gives me a headache." - spotted in VB forums.
Christian Graus wrote:
What's twisted is your ability to see socialism literally everywhere.
What the economic illiterate don't understand is that we can be rip-roaring capitalists and impose any set of tariffs we wish. Throughout most of our history, the U.S. did exactly that, including under Thomas Jefferson.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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Christian Graus wrote:
You have state AND federal income tax ? Well, that's a little retarded.
and if you live in Indiana you also have local (county) income tax. if you live in say, New York you also have a city income tax. so you can see why I get a bit excited on the subject.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
so you can see why I get a bit excited on the subject.
You forgot to throw in sales tax on the city and state level and land tax on the city level.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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fat_boy wrote:
a radicalised Pakistan
Isn't that redundant? They've been radicalized since the country was created.
fat_boy wrote:
IDC at Hyderabad is going to get turned to dust
That's always been a risk the average Harvard MBA has not considered.
fat_boy wrote:
One question though, if foreign products have a hefty inmport duty wont this offset any gains or are those duties avoided?
It will increase the cost of cheap, shoddily made, goods like those sold in Walmart. But with a booming economy, increasing reeal wages as opposed to the phoney boom of increased credit and decreasing real wages people will be able to afford it. Only the economic illiterates think what is going on now is good for the USA. The senior management of corporations like Microsoft know it isn't and don't give a damn.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
Oakman wrote:
Isn't that redundant? They've been radicalized since the country was created.
Look at the history of Afghanistan over the last 40 years and you will see what I mean. If Pakistan goes the same way, then its nuclear war with India, gauranteed, I was in IDC a couple of years back. A week after I left some Islamic radicals planted 20 or so bombs in the city. Only 5 went off and they were small so not much damage was caused. But, let these nutters gain power in Pakistan and give them acces to nukes, and its WW3, asian style.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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Stan Shannon wrote:
Money that is saved is invested. Those investments create jobs. How can you be working in the software industry and not understand that? Just a hunch, but I would guess that at least 75% of all software jobs a funded by private investements.
Yeah, I figured that was where you were going. Except, Bill gives his to charity now. So the money comes from India and goes to Africa.
Stan Shannon wrote:
If it helps grow their economy it certainly does.
How ? You agreed elsewhere that growing someone elses economy doesn't guarentee helping yours. Make your mind up.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Of course I do, and I'm happy to pay for that or anything else that helps promote the general welfare, but that is all I want from the government.
The government, as I see it, has three roles 1 - act to make society predictable, that is, to enforce laws 2 - provide services such as education and emergency services 3 - be prepared to protect your country from outside threat.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Please read this[^] if you don't like the answer I gave to your question. "! i don't exactly like or do programming and it only gives me a headache." - spotted in VB forums.
Christian Graus wrote:
1 - act to make society predictable, that is, to enforce laws 2 - provide services such as education and emergency services 3 - be prepared to protect your country from outside threat.
1. Implies the power to make laws - which is all that the jackboots need. 2. Only if it is demonstrable that they cannot be provided by private enterprize. The reverse is true in the U.S. Consistently, non-governmental schools do a better job at educating our young people than does the system dominated by the Federal Dept of Education. 3. And internal threat. Providing protection from violence against its citizens from any source, including itself, is the best reason in the world to have a government. Of course the above is pretty much a pipedream. In the real world it would be as difficult to convert the U.S. into the above as it would be to recreate 18th century government.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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Oakman wrote:
Isn't that redundant? They've been radicalized since the country was created.
Look at the history of Afghanistan over the last 40 years and you will see what I mean. If Pakistan goes the same way, then its nuclear war with India, gauranteed, I was in IDC a couple of years back. A week after I left some Islamic radicals planted 20 or so bombs in the city. Only 5 went off and they were small so not much damage was caused. But, let these nutters gain power in Pakistan and give them acces to nukes, and its WW3, asian style.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
fat_boy wrote:
If Pakistan goes the same way, then its nuclear war with India, gauranteed,
We agree that its guaranteed, I just think its been guaranteed since they both developed nukes.
fat_boy wrote:
But, let these nutters gain power in Pakistan and give them acces to nukes, and its WW3, asian style.
And if Europe and the US have a brain between them, they will stay on the sidelines (all the handwringing and UN resolutions needed to ease any guilty consciences but from the sidelines) Every time Europe or the US gets involved in the affairs of Asia, we are accused of imperialism, mopery, dopery, and arrogance. This time, let 'em fruck each other over until they're tired of bleeding. It's no concern of ours.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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Christian Graus wrote:
I think any purchase the government makes, should consider how their choice of vendor affects their country long term, as well as the short term benefits of a lower price.
My opinion is based on what might be buried in the firmware, if it were pure pricing then I wouldn't hesitate.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.