Flowchart
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The gist of your replies have been that I have limited capacity to do both programming and flowcharting. Yet somehow you don't seem to think that's a personal attack. And that has nothing to do with whether I caught your tone. I know my criticism of flow charting is open to public opinion. I've been utilizing chats, message boards, forums and news groups for well over twenty years - and never anonymously (You know my real name, and can find out quite a bit of my biography on this site.). Your first reply talks about having a difficult time finding a good tool, and that you never followed through on an attempt to create your own. I took that to mean that flowcharting is difficult (one of MY criticisms of flowcharting). I have had both formal and informal education on flowcharting. I have used them, and I have had coworkers try to make me use them. So I do have some experience. In reality, a useful flowchart takes about twice as long to generate as the actual code. That translates into time and money for EVERYONE. That's a real good reason to discourage their use. And though I blatantly told everyone to discourage their use, the people that know when they are useful and how to create them will continue to use them as needed. So far, I've been able to respond without pointing out any of your deficiencies, but that's getting harder and harder to do. So tell me now what knowledge I am lacking, or how badly I must do my job, or how I don't understand forums...
You are here - through no fault of mine!
Flame wars never accomplish anything but annoy people. You've read thing things into what I wrote that just aren't there. I never implied your capacity to program is limited. I implied unstructured code, when flowcharted, tends to result in crossed lines. However, it is also true that crappy flowcharting tools will do the same even with perfectly structured code. I didn't write anything to acknowledge that even though that might be the situation for you, because as I wrote you didn't restrict your comments to flowcharting tools, but to flowcharting in general. It is always possible, and trivially so, to hand draw a flowchart of a properly structured function without crossing any lines. You wrote that it is nearly impossible to do so. Your statement is clearly and simply false. I'm sorry if pointing that out hurts your feelings. But it's still not intended as a personal attack, though if you insist on viewing it as such that is your right. I guess by your reasoning anyone could say that whenever any incorrect thing they have written is pointed out as incorrect that it is a personal attack. I don't see it as such; it's not a personal attack unless there's some rude or threatening sort of tone that underlies it. I don't see any point in arguing whether my reply was a personal attack or not. Decide for yourself. It was not intended as such. Accept that or not. It comes down to how you define "personal attack." It's way off issue in any case. I also didn't write that your capacity to flowchart is limited, I wrote that you didn't really understand their proper use. Nothing you've written indicates otherwise. I do not advocate flowcharting if it is just an exercise in going through the motions. Some programmers do find them truly helpful. You are not among them at this time. That's fine. Different people think in different ways. I find a properly drawn graphical representation more clearly and quickly conveys how a complex function works than seeing a text listing does. You have also misread and misunderstood what I wrote about flowcharting tools. I do not find flowcharting, per se, to be difficult. Far from it. I do find the current flowcharting tools of which I am aware to be difficult to use and of very limited utility for that purpose. Most are intended as more general purpose graphics programs than specifically for flowcharting. I know of none that are specifically for structured programming. I am aware of none that is worth using as a development tool. As far as not following
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Flame wars never accomplish anything but annoy people. You've read thing things into what I wrote that just aren't there. I never implied your capacity to program is limited. I implied unstructured code, when flowcharted, tends to result in crossed lines. However, it is also true that crappy flowcharting tools will do the same even with perfectly structured code. I didn't write anything to acknowledge that even though that might be the situation for you, because as I wrote you didn't restrict your comments to flowcharting tools, but to flowcharting in general. It is always possible, and trivially so, to hand draw a flowchart of a properly structured function without crossing any lines. You wrote that it is nearly impossible to do so. Your statement is clearly and simply false. I'm sorry if pointing that out hurts your feelings. But it's still not intended as a personal attack, though if you insist on viewing it as such that is your right. I guess by your reasoning anyone could say that whenever any incorrect thing they have written is pointed out as incorrect that it is a personal attack. I don't see it as such; it's not a personal attack unless there's some rude or threatening sort of tone that underlies it. I don't see any point in arguing whether my reply was a personal attack or not. Decide for yourself. It was not intended as such. Accept that or not. It comes down to how you define "personal attack." It's way off issue in any case. I also didn't write that your capacity to flowchart is limited, I wrote that you didn't really understand their proper use. Nothing you've written indicates otherwise. I do not advocate flowcharting if it is just an exercise in going through the motions. Some programmers do find them truly helpful. You are not among them at this time. That's fine. Different people think in different ways. I find a properly drawn graphical representation more clearly and quickly conveys how a complex function works than seeing a text listing does. You have also misread and misunderstood what I wrote about flowcharting tools. I do not find flowcharting, per se, to be difficult. Far from it. I do find the current flowcharting tools of which I am aware to be difficult to use and of very limited utility for that purpose. Most are intended as more general purpose graphics programs than specifically for flowcharting. I know of none that are specifically for structured programming. I am aware of none that is worth using as a development tool. As far as not following
OFF TOPIC READ AT YOUR OWN RISK! :omg: GFY - and that's all I have to say about that.
You are here - through no fault of mine!
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What flowhcarting programs do people here like to use?
