Continued discussion on the future of outsourcing
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Well India is the major player in outsourcing and majority of poor questions in the forums are undeniably from India.
Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
Well India is the major player in outsourcing and majority of poor questions in the forums are undeniably from India.
I do not think that the two statements are unconnected.
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Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
that most of the programmers in India are like
I don't recall anyone specifically mentioning Indian developers. The topic was outsourcing in general, whether that is Indian, Chinese, Russian, or Martian. The fact that you seemingly equate outsourcing and poor development with Indian developers is telling of the situation. I've work with several teams and people from various nations and no one has a monopoly on poor developers, whether outsourced, in-house, or H1B
only two letters away from being an asset
Mark Nischalke wrote:
whether that is Indian, Chinese, Russian, or Martian.
Maybe it's me, but Martian outsourcing is definetely out! The people at NASA might have been ok controlling Spirit, or whatever it was called, but remote desktop into source control and live code reviews...definetely a deal breaker
Opium is my business. The bridge mean more traffic. More traffic mean more money. More money mean more power. Speed is important in business. Time is money. You said opium was money. Money is Money. Well then, what is time again? icalburner
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I have no doubt that this is true, and I'm always at pains in discussing this, to state what is hopefully obvious - the number of bad programmers we see from India, is not a representation of all Indian programmers, although it is mostly a representation of how much financial incentive the West has given people there to take jobs they cannot do. I have to say, the one experience I've had with this, I hired about four times, through different 'rentacoder' type sites, and even when I took the highest bid, I never found anyone who was remotely up to the standards I hoped for. Conversely, I've done remote work with a number of people, most of whom have been Indian, and when I've hired from people who live in the US, I've always had a great experience and a great final product. The perception that people have in a place like CP, is going to be different from the knowledge of someone who has been to India. I do have a friend who managed a team there for Sun, and my overall feeling was that the big difference is, if your company manages the office, and can fly there to interview/hire people, you will get the cream of the crop. If you get someone bidding to do 2 months work, you get the dregs.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
My expereinces have been very similar. Though I've seen bad coders homegrown as well (and godawful architects, but that is another story entirely), sadly every outsourced developer I've worked with has been undertrained, underbid, copypasta fanatics, and often involved in some shady practices (we had to slice a dev team by 33% because we found our "mid-level developers" we phone interviewed couldn't write simple C# code or valid XML). As long as the majority of outsourcing companies are taking advantage of the West's desire for cheap labor (all programmers are the same right?) and are cranking people out with inflated titles and fabricated knowledge to mqake the sale, this will continue. I hope Christian's right about the gap closing, but I know I couldn't live on the $30k/yr they were paying my outsourced peer, so that gap's gonna have to do a fair amount of closing on the upside.