Today was pretty quiet
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Bob Emmett wrote:
As to the factual content, very little.
You wouldn't know whats fact if it slapped you in the face. There is nothing I stated that is fictional, there is nothing you can quote that is not fact.
Bob Emmett wrote:
I think that a democracy should have regulatory control of its agencies
This isn't a democracy it is a constitutional republic, and the fed is a purely unconstitutional and criminal institution. You are simply an idiot.
Bob Emmett wrote:
I am not a citizen of the USA and my opinion is not relevant.
Obviously. Your opinions are insignificant.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
You wouldn't know whats fact if it slapped you in the face.
:rolleyes:
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
There is nothing I stated that is fictional, there is nothing you can quote that is not fact.
Opinions are not facts.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
This isn't a democracy it is a constitutional republic
A federal constitutional republic, little Miss Picky.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
and the fed is a purely unconstitutional and criminal institution.
Saying doesn't make it so.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
You are simply an idiot.
:rolleyes:
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
Your opinions are insignificant.
And yet you take the time to respond to them. So magnanimous.
Bob Emmett I solemnly declare that I do not wish the USA to be more like Britain, Canada, or Oz.
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Ian Shlasko wrote:
This debate is getting far too one-sided... If you're going to start spewing out random quotes, there's really no point in trying to have an intelligent conversation. Quotations are meaningless.
Don't disregard those quotes like that. They describe the monetary power of central banking very well, and they were spoken by highly intelligent respectable high-level people.
Ian Shlasko wrote:
I never said that.
That is the way it is though.
Ian Shlasko wrote:
Scenario 1 (Fixed currency): The economy starts on a downturn. People get scared and pull their money out of the market. Less money = Less credit e= Less lending... The economy contracts more. Downward spiral. Depression. Crash.
Ian Shlasko wrote:
Scenario 2 (Floating currency): The economy starts on a downturn. The Fed lowers interest rates and injects money, causing inflation. Savings accounts start to give less interest, so people are encouraged to put their money into the market. Currency is more plentiful, so lending is easier, so businesses borrow more money to expand. The economy levels out and starts back up, at which point the Fed reverses this action by bringing interest rats back to normal.
Scenario two compounds the problem by causing inflation and fear of inflation so they rush to gold and silver as we see today, the Chinese government is buying up gold and silver. The economic theories you mention don't work out in reality as we can clearly see today. You can't force people to spend their money, stealing it is not a solution.
Ian Shlasko wrote:
As I've said multiple times, the Fed is supervised and overseen by congress.
Your definition of supervised and overseen are clearly different than most people's. The central bankers use every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling the money and its issuance. This is clearly a pointless debate, you work for a Wall Street hedge fund. X| I think that clearly shows your bias towards corrupt entities.
Actually I don't particularly like the industry I'm in... They just happen to treat me very well (Particularly in the monetary sense), and living in this city costs money.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
Scenario two compounds the problem by causing inflation and fear of inflation
I never said the Fed system was perfect, but it beats a total financial collapse, which is what Scenario 1 would inevitably result in. And I would argue that these economic theories DO work, for the most part. Look at the economic powerhouse this country has become. We have such influence over the global market that a number of foreign currencies are directly linked to ours. It may not be perfect, but it beats the alternative. If you don't like the concept of a floating currency, then explain another solution to Scenario 1 in my previous post. Go ahead.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Developer, Author (Guardians of Xen)
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Do you like being stupid? The central bank acts as a independent institution that controls the monetary system of the nation it represents. The central bank loans the money that it makes out of thin air (devaluing the currency, taking from people's hard earned savings) and loans that out with interest to other banks, corporations (bonds) and the government (treasuries). It acts as a independent governmental body that governs and manipulates the economy and funds itself by printing its money and also using that money to collect interest (a tax so to speak). As we can clearly see with the federal reserve, it is extremely secretive about its operations. You have to remember that every single dollar in circulation must be paid back to the federal reserve with interest. As you can imagine, it is impossible without taking another loan from the central bank to pay off the old loan. The value of the dollar has decreased by 95% since the inception of the federal reserve. Any money that you save gets devalued (stolen) right out of your pocket. Its modern slavery. Again, the value of the dollar has dropped by 95% since the fed's inception and it is completely going down the gutter right now. Its not intelligent whatsoever for anyone to endorse this giant ponzi scheme debt monster. Below is required reading. The first witness to be called is Abraham Lincoln. He warned, "I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and cause me to tremble for safety of my country; corporations have been enthroned, an era of corruption in High Places will follow, and the Money Power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the People, until the wealth is aggregated in a few hands, and the Republic destroyed." Congressman Wright Patman decared, "In the U.S. today, we have in effect two governments. We have the duly constituted government, then we have an independent, uncontrolled and uncoordinated government in the Federal Reserve, operating the money powers which are reserved to congress by the Constitution." Congressman Charles Lindbergh maintained, "Our financial system is a false one and a huge burden on the people . . . The Federal Reserve Act establishes the most gigantic trust on earth. When the President signs this bill, the invisible government of the monetary power will be legalized . . . The people must make a declaration of independence to relieve themselves from the Monetary Power . . . The worst legislative crime of the ages is perpetrated by th
Given that you've copied and pasted the same text over and over, why not make it an article and just link to it ? Or why not go away until you can discuss the things you asked me to discuss with you. After that, perhaps you can try to discuss the Fed, and your ignorance of anything to do with it, a conversation in which I'd like you to answer questions, not paste paragraphs from websites.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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You really are making a fool out of yourself.[^] Alt[^] By the way that is you being smacked.
modified on Thursday, September 10, 2009 5:01 PM
Wow - this counts as a response in your retarded universe ? Here are the facts. 1 - you asked me to go through a huge post of yours and respond, point by point 2 - I pointed out that you need to prove your claims are true, not vice versa, but I did indeed respond to the first paragraph. It was on vacinnations, fluoride and GM. 3 - you responded, but you didn't really answer most of the things I said 4 - I responded with more facts 5 - you started to talk about the federal reserve 6 - I did respond, but said I wanted to not change the subject 7 - you said you wouldn't talk about those things any more. 8 - I reminded that it was you who brought them up and insisted I discuss them 9 - you whined like a little girl 10 - goto 8 In other words, I spent time researching a subject, at your request, shot you down in flames, and you ran scared. You've been owned.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Actually I don't particularly like the industry I'm in... They just happen to treat me very well (Particularly in the monetary sense), and living in this city costs money.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
Scenario two compounds the problem by causing inflation and fear of inflation
I never said the Fed system was perfect, but it beats a total financial collapse, which is what Scenario 1 would inevitably result in. And I would argue that these economic theories DO work, for the most part. Look at the economic powerhouse this country has become. We have such influence over the global market that a number of foreign currencies are directly linked to ours. It may not be perfect, but it beats the alternative. If you don't like the concept of a floating currency, then explain another solution to Scenario 1 in my previous post. Go ahead.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Developer, Author (Guardians of Xen)
Ian Shlasko wrote:
Look at the economic powerhouse this country has become.
:laugh: Look at the total collapse we have been led into.
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Ian Shlasko wrote:
Look at the economic powerhouse this country has become.
:laugh: Look at the total collapse we have been led into.
And look how, with action from the Fed, we're recovering from it.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Developer, Author (Guardians of Xen)
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And look how, with action from the Fed, we're recovering from it.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Developer, Author (Guardians of Xen)
Ian Shlasko wrote:
And look how, with action from the Fed, we're recovering from it.
You are in fantasy land.
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Wow - this counts as a response in your retarded universe ? Here are the facts. 1 - you asked me to go through a huge post of yours and respond, point by point 2 - I pointed out that you need to prove your claims are true, not vice versa, but I did indeed respond to the first paragraph. It was on vacinnations, fluoride and GM. 3 - you responded, but you didn't really answer most of the things I said 4 - I responded with more facts 5 - you started to talk about the federal reserve 6 - I did respond, but said I wanted to not change the subject 7 - you said you wouldn't talk about those things any more. 8 - I reminded that it was you who brought them up and insisted I discuss them 9 - you whined like a little girl 10 - goto 8 In other words, I spent time researching a subject, at your request, shot you down in flames, and you ran scared. You've been owned.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Christian Graus wrote:
4 - I responded with more facts
Insignificant opinions aren't facts.
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Ian Shlasko wrote:
And look how, with action from the Fed, we're recovering from it.
You are in fantasy land.
If you can't make a logical argument, just concede and be done with it.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Developer, Author (Guardians of Xen)
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Christian Graus wrote:
4 - I responded with more facts
Insignificant opinions aren't facts.
I posted with solid facts. I researched them online. I actually took time to understand them, rather than just copying and pasting paragraphs. If what I said was so easy to demolish, why did you run away ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Well if you are going to whine and bitch about my small summaries that don't take long to read, here is proof for the first fact. FACT #1: The Fed is a private for profit corporation. Below are excerpts from a court case proving the Federal Reserve system's status. As you will see, the court ruled that the Federal Reserve Banks are "independent, privately owned and locally controlled corporations", and there is not sufficient "federal government control over 'detailed physical performance' and 'day to day operation'" of the Federal Reserve Bank for it to be considered a federal agency: Lewis v. United States, 680 F.2d 1239 (1982) John L. Lewis, Plaintiff/Appellant, v. United States of America, Defendant/Appellee. No. 80-5905 United States Court of Appeals, Ninth Circuit. Submitted March 2, 1982. Decided April 19, 1982. As Amended June 24, 1982. Plaintiff, who was injured by vehicle owned and operated by a federal reserve bank, brought action alleging jurisdiction under the Federal Tort Claims Act. The United States District Court for the Central District of California, David W. Williams, J., dismissed holding that federal reserve bank was not a federal agency within meaning of Act and that the court therefore lacked subject-matter jurisdiction. Appeal was taken. The Court of Appeals, Poole, Circuit Judge, held that federal reserve banks are not federal instrumentalities for purposes of the Act, but are independent, privately owned and locally controlled corporations. Affirmed. 1. United States There are no sharp criteria for determining whether an entity is a federal agency within meaning of the Federal Tort Claims Act, but critical factor is existence of federal government control over "detailed physical performance" and "day to day operation" of an entity. . . . 2. United States Federal reserve banks are not federal instrumentalities for purposes of a Federal Tort Claims Act, but are independent, privately owned and locally controlled corporations in light of fact that direct supervision and control of each bank is exercised by board of directors, federal reserve banks, though heavily regulated, are locally controlled by their member banks, banks are listed neither as "wholly owned" government corporations nor as "mixed ownership" corporations; federal reserve banks receive no appropriated funds from Congress and the banks are empowered to sue and be sued in their own names. . . . 3. United States Under the Federal Tort Claims Act, federal liabi
All that proves is that the Federal Reserve is a separate company which has ties to the US government. It isn't a governmental department, so I don't know that the governmental auditors would have jurisdiction. The overall methodology is somewhat similar to a trusted system process. The Federal Reserve's presence as a company might also explain why it keeps records secret. After all, most companies do, to stop other companies from stealing ideas or reducing their profits.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
Those in the know about the Fed, realize that it does keep certain records secret. The soon-to-be-former Chairman of the House Banking Committee, Henry Gonzales, has spoken on record repeatedly about how the Fed at one point says it does not have certain requested records, and then it is found through investigation that it in fact does have those records, or at least used to.
So a large company lies. It's a shame, but not entirely unexpected.
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You are an idiot.
It's not necessary to be so stupid, either, but people manage it. - Christian Graus, 2009 AD
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Christian Graus wrote:
4 - I responded with more facts
Insignificant opinions aren't facts.
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All that proves is that the Federal Reserve is a separate company which has ties to the US government. It isn't a governmental department, so I don't know that the governmental auditors would have jurisdiction. The overall methodology is somewhat similar to a trusted system process. The Federal Reserve's presence as a company might also explain why it keeps records secret. After all, most companies do, to stop other companies from stealing ideas or reducing their profits.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
Those in the know about the Fed, realize that it does keep certain records secret. The soon-to-be-former Chairman of the House Banking Committee, Henry Gonzales, has spoken on record repeatedly about how the Fed at one point says it does not have certain requested records, and then it is found through investigation that it in fact does have those records, or at least used to.
So a large company lies. It's a shame, but not entirely unexpected.
You don't understand the power that it has do you?
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You don't understand the power that it has do you?
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I can see where you're going with this. Feel free to fall off your trolley, just don't expect me to join you. If you can't provide proof that the Federal Reserve is evil, then I'm done here.
I take that is a no, but I didn't expect a queeny eurochum to look up at their masters.
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I guess I scared the retard back into his cave.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.