Fix one thing
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CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
Holocausts are fun right? You must like totalitarianism.
Actually, no-one said how we'd solve overpopulation. In a world of magic, the ideal way would be to create a way to generate enough food and energy for everyone. It's only if that's not possible, that the options are obliteration, and some sort of population control.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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I will do some reading as you suggest.
Christian Graus wrote:
listing lots of arcane laws that don't apply to God's people today
Why don't they apply? (not knowing exactly what they are)
Christian Graus wrote:
but they were the start of God dealing with people.
But he created us right? Didn't he know what he had created? Are we some sort of experiment? Why doesn't he just show himself? mmmm.. So many questions. I am at an interesting point with my kids, they are starting to ask the how did we get here questions, hard to answer if you are not sure yourself.
FYI, I have answered this via email, LMK if you don't get it.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Oh, I don't know... let's not be too hasty in dismissing this mass murder idea. A chain of Soylent factories might be just the ticket we're looking for. ;)
Solve two problems at once, I like it.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Yeah, that whole original sin thing is a tough nut to swallow. Eve gets nasty with a snake and you have to pay for it. Maybe you need to think more and read fairy tales less?
You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists.
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Imagine you could fix one issue in the world. Just one. Which one would you fix ? Global warming ? Poverty ? Why would you choose it ? I'd choose overpopulation, because if we don't solve that one, we're all screwed, no matter how warm or cold it is.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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OK, obviously not a bible believer. What are your thoughts on how we got here and where we are going to end up?
Ah, this is always a fun debate... Time for my view... Humans evolved from primates, which evolved from something else (Hey, I'm a programmer, not a geneticist - Other people have researched these things), which evolved from other things, which evolved from still other things, over the course of millions of years... And it all probably started from a bunch of molecules that randomly assembled into something useful. It's not that silly when you think about it... There's the old adage that given an infinite number of monkeys on an infinite number of typewriters, you'd eventually get the complete works of Shakespeare... Well, think of the countless number of atoms and molecules on primordial Earth... With all of those little things bumping around, you figure eventually something interesting would happen. As for evolution... I don't see how people even dispute the concept, because it's pretty much a... what's the term, I forget... Opposite of a logical fallacy... It basically states that "Organisms that are better at surviving are more likely to survive." Combine that with the existence of cell mutation (Which has been verified plenty of times), and natural selection seems a pretty logical conclusion. So that takes care of origins. If you want to play the old game of going back and back and back to the beginning, let me summarize the argument briefly and save you some time: "Well where did the Earth come from?" ...Astronomy 101 explanation... "And where did the galaxy come from?" ...Big bang theory, etc etc... "And where did the universe come from?" ...No one knows... "Because God created the universe." "But where did 'god' come from?" "He was always there" "Maybe the universe was always there." So, now that that's out of the way... Let's talk about afterlives... Now smarter people than me have studied the intricate workings of the human brain, and you know what? It's just a biological machine. Instead of electricity, it uses oxygen and nutrients. Instead of a mouse and keyboard, we have nerve inputs. The trick is that it's pretty much all active storage... We're talking RAM, not a HDD. You cut the power, the data starts to fade away. There's still stuff in there, mainly the physical neuron pathways, but that's like saying your computer still has memory because the RAM chips still have their little circuit pathways. You pull the cord, the computer shuts off, and the memory starts to fade immediately. You may have a few seconds or minutes to restart the juice before everything f
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Imagine you could fix one issue in the world. Just one. Which one would you fix ? Global warming ? Poverty ? Why would you choose it ? I'd choose overpopulation, because if we don't solve that one, we're all screwed, no matter how warm or cold it is.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Imagine you could fix one issue in the world. Just one. Which one would you fix ? Global warming ? Poverty ? Why would you choose it ? I'd choose overpopulation, because if we don't solve that one, we're all screwed, no matter how warm or cold it is.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Imagine you could fix one issue in the world. Just one. Which one would you fix ? Global warming ? Poverty ? Why would you choose it ? I'd choose overpopulation, because if we don't solve that one, we're all screwed, no matter how warm or cold it is.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
is where do all those socks go? Do you know how many single socks I have in my drawer right now. They need to invent a dryer that will not eat socks. The world will be a much better place. :cool:
Chris Meech I am Canadian. [heard in a local bar] In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. [Yogi Berra]
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Tim Craig wrote:
We arose from the primordial chemical soup that was the early oceans through natural chemical processes
I don't know if I buy that either. In some ways that seems just as fanciful as the bible does to you.
Tim Craig wrote:
Adam and Eve aren't original christian, or even hebrew
Where do you get this from?
rickyjos wrote:
I don't know if I buy that either. In some ways that seems just as fanciful as the bible does to you.
So you'd rather believe a fairy tale written by neolithics just settled into an agricultural life that has no scientific backing over something with actual evidence? You've admitted you haven't been able to "get through" the bible, how have you fared with your biology book?
rickyjos wrote:
Where do you get this from?
Try this search[^]. It's well known that most of not all the stories in the old testament have earlier versions in other cultures. You have a good fairy tale and it seems to working since the masses are drooling and doling out their hard earned cash to support the priests in a priestly lifestyle, the next guy isn't going to dump a working scam for something untried.
You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists.
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what could have happened if Adam and Eve were chinese? They would have eaten the snake and leave the fruit untouched. ;P
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" -Pascal
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is where do all those socks go? Do you know how many single socks I have in my drawer right now. They need to invent a dryer that will not eat socks. The world will be a much better place. :cool:
Chris Meech I am Canadian. [heard in a local bar] In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. [Yogi Berra]
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CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
So you like murder?
Depends which side of the gun/knife/bomb/whatever you are on...
I don't have ADHD, I have ADOS... Attention Deficit oooh SHINY!! Booger Mobile (n) - A bright green 1964 Ford Falcon - our entry into the Camp Quality esCarpade!! Do something wonderful - make a donation to Camp Quality today!!
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
So you like murder?
_Damian S_ wrote:
Depends which side of the gun/knife/bomb/whatever you are on...
You probably like raping children to.
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Josh Gray wrote:
But then again he also told me not to trust people with a first name for a last name
Well, I can't help if people usurped the family name and made it a first name. I guess it has a nice ring and they just couldn't resist borrowing it. :) What about people who can't do better than a color for a last name? :suss:
You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists.
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FYI, I have answered this via email, LMK if you don't get it.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
No, didn't get it. Who knows why. You can send to rkjoseph bigpond.net.au
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rickyjos wrote:
I don't know if I buy that either. In some ways that seems just as fanciful as the bible does to you.
So you'd rather believe a fairy tale written by neolithics just settled into an agricultural life that has no scientific backing over something with actual evidence? You've admitted you haven't been able to "get through" the bible, how have you fared with your biology book?
rickyjos wrote:
Where do you get this from?
Try this search[^]. It's well known that most of not all the stories in the old testament have earlier versions in other cultures. You have a good fairy tale and it seems to working since the masses are drooling and doling out their hard earned cash to support the priests in a priestly lifestyle, the next guy isn't going to dump a working scam for something untried.
You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists.
Tim Craig wrote:
So you'd rather believe a fairy tale written by neolithics just settled into an agricultural life that has no scientific backing over something with actual evidence?
I never said I believe either view. Just interested in how people come have to come to the decision on what they believe. Doing OK with the biology books, thanks for asking.
Tim Craig wrote:
Try this search[^].
Thanks for the links. I will read as much as I can :)
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Ah, this is always a fun debate... Time for my view... Humans evolved from primates, which evolved from something else (Hey, I'm a programmer, not a geneticist - Other people have researched these things), which evolved from other things, which evolved from still other things, over the course of millions of years... And it all probably started from a bunch of molecules that randomly assembled into something useful. It's not that silly when you think about it... There's the old adage that given an infinite number of monkeys on an infinite number of typewriters, you'd eventually get the complete works of Shakespeare... Well, think of the countless number of atoms and molecules on primordial Earth... With all of those little things bumping around, you figure eventually something interesting would happen. As for evolution... I don't see how people even dispute the concept, because it's pretty much a... what's the term, I forget... Opposite of a logical fallacy... It basically states that "Organisms that are better at surviving are more likely to survive." Combine that with the existence of cell mutation (Which has been verified plenty of times), and natural selection seems a pretty logical conclusion. So that takes care of origins. If you want to play the old game of going back and back and back to the beginning, let me summarize the argument briefly and save you some time: "Well where did the Earth come from?" ...Astronomy 101 explanation... "And where did the galaxy come from?" ...Big bang theory, etc etc... "And where did the universe come from?" ...No one knows... "Because God created the universe." "But where did 'god' come from?" "He was always there" "Maybe the universe was always there." So, now that that's out of the way... Let's talk about afterlives... Now smarter people than me have studied the intricate workings of the human brain, and you know what? It's just a biological machine. Instead of electricity, it uses oxygen and nutrients. Instead of a mouse and keyboard, we have nerve inputs. The trick is that it's pretty much all active storage... We're talking RAM, not a HDD. You cut the power, the data starts to fade away. There's still stuff in there, mainly the physical neuron pathways, but that's like saying your computer still has memory because the RAM chips still have their little circuit pathways. You pull the cord, the computer shuts off, and the memory starts to fade immediately. You may have a few seconds or minutes to restart the juice before everything f
Thanks Ian. Interesting.
Ian Shlasko wrote:
People want to think that there's some larger purpose in life. They want to think that what they do in this lifetime matters. They want the reassurance that someone is watching over them from above. I get that, and sometimes I wish I could believe that, because life would be easier to deal with
You really think that's all it is? I just feel it must be more than this. I know a lot of very intelligent people, who totally understand the "evolution" side, and believe it to be theoretically possible, but are church goers. You would like to think that it is more than just to make them feel good...
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Thanks Ian. Interesting.
Ian Shlasko wrote:
People want to think that there's some larger purpose in life. They want to think that what they do in this lifetime matters. They want the reassurance that someone is watching over them from above. I get that, and sometimes I wish I could believe that, because life would be easier to deal with
You really think that's all it is? I just feel it must be more than this. I know a lot of very intelligent people, who totally understand the "evolution" side, and believe it to be theoretically possible, but are church goers. You would like to think that it is more than just to make them feel good...
IMO the biggest leap of faith is the leap from understanding the idea of evolution for things already alive, and assuming that all life started that way, spontaneously. It's a view that demands that life exist on other planets, because it's capable of appearing all on it's own.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Thanks Ian. Interesting.
Ian Shlasko wrote:
People want to think that there's some larger purpose in life. They want to think that what they do in this lifetime matters. They want the reassurance that someone is watching over them from above. I get that, and sometimes I wish I could believe that, because life would be easier to deal with
You really think that's all it is? I just feel it must be more than this. I know a lot of very intelligent people, who totally understand the "evolution" side, and believe it to be theoretically possible, but are church goers. You would like to think that it is more than just to make them feel good...
Yeah, it feels like it should be more, but wishing doesn't make it true. And yes, there are many intelligent people who are church-goers. Keep in mind that what we're taught in childhood has a strong effect on us, so most people just stick with the religion they were raised into. If you were taken to church every day as a child, and had the stories of the bible drilled into your mind, it would be only natural to continue that way of thinking. I would guess the idea that life doesn't have a larger purpose is as strange and frightening to the church crowd as their beliefs are to me. Believing in a deity is a lot easier than believing in the insignificance and finality of life and death without. Then again, you have to subdivide the churchgoing crowd too. There are the ones who believe every word of the bible, the ones who think of it as mere guidance, the ones who just go because of tradition or habit, and the ones who aren't quite sure but figure it's best to err on the "safe" side, just in case. The first category are the only ones who really irk me sometimes, so I generally try to avoid them. I know it sounds arrogant to sit here and say flat out that over 90% of the population of the world is wrong (Whatever the exact percentage of theists is), but when I look at religions, I see codes of behavior based on seemingly-fictional works. I actually use some of the concepts preached by the religious folks in my novel (Creationist theory, for example, and relatively-omnipotent gods), because it makes for a more interesting story in this case, but that doesn't make it any less a work of fiction. Hey, maybe I'll reach the end of my lifetime, die, and realize I was completely wrong about all of this. Then again, maybe I'll win the MegaMillions jackpot tomorrow (Or whenever the next drawing is), even though I've never bought a ticket. Personally, I consider them equally likely.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Developer, Author (Guardians of Xen)
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IMO the biggest leap of faith is the leap from understanding the idea of evolution for things already alive, and assuming that all life started that way, spontaneously. It's a view that demands that life exist on other planets, because it's capable of appearing all on it's own.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Christian Graus wrote:
It's a view that demands that life exist on other planets, because it's capable of appearing all on it's own.
Indeed, and I do believe there are probably other civilizations out there. The trouble is the sheer number of worlds out there, versus the relatively-short geological timespan of a sentient race, versus the distance and communication lag between those worlds. Unfortunately, whether we'll actually LOCATE and CONTACT another intelligent species is rather unlikely, I think. As for the former, though... The best example of thinking in this direction is the Drake Equation (Wikipedia)[^].
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Developer, Author (Guardians of Xen)