SUVs, for real?

Paul Watson

* I had a choice: Rant about abuse of tolerance, or SUVs. So I put the two in a paper hat and did a draw... SUVs it is What is with SUVs**? What purpose, other than to compensate for the size of a certain unmentionable or to one up the neigbours, do they have? Offroad they are a joke* while onroad they are good but hardly breath taking. Plus at the average SUV price one would expect flipping anti-gravity offroad ability and Lotus Elise beating onroad handling. Yet neither is delivered, but don't worry you look good. For the price of one BMW X5 I can get a BMW M3 and a Jeep Grand Cherokee (or an old model Landy.) So on road I have about as good as you can get (the M3) and offroad I have something which is pretty damned good too (the Cherokee or Landy.) Plus onroad my fuel consumption with the M3 will be quite good (in comparison.) Also onroad I have very little chance of decapitating anybody in an accident if driving an M3 as compared to an X5 (Outlaw programmer just remembered why he likes SUVs... ;).) So just where does a SUV fit in? Or is it really just for image sake? * The last thing you see at the launch of a new SUV is any offroad course. In fact one unnamed SUV was launched on an authobahn. Wow now there is a proper use for 4 wheel drive if I ever saw one! ** BMW X5, Mercedes ML, Volvo XC90, Ssanyong Musso etc. etc. ad nauseum

Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South Africa

Christopher Duncan

SUVs are minivans for the wive and kiddies, packaged with a more macho image that the man of the house (who probably has a disproportionate influence in the purchase), will tolerate. They are practical in the same way that a minivan is. However, "real men" twitch at the thought of driving a minivan. That being said, I own an SUV. My preference is hot rods, but I'm in the process of building a show band that will require my pulling a trailer of 3 to 4 thousand pounds of equipment. I had to sell my minivan (used to haul guitar amps, etc., since I'm not married) because it didn't have the towing capacity I needed. So, for me, it was either a pickup truck (not a chance, folks, I'm an ex hippie living in Georgia and that's waaaaay too redneck for me) or an SUV (yuck). I'm not a fan of SUVs, as they handle like a London double decker bus. The Toyota Sequoia I have is better than most, but you just don't want to take a corner very fast with these puppies. Unfortunately, a Corvette ain't gonna tow the trailer I need. Bummer... Chistopher Duncan Author - The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World (Apress)

Chris Hambleton

I don't own one, but I've heard that they're pretty comfortable to drive in, and for others, the larger the vehicle, the safer they feel. I'm not one to trash SUVs or their owners, but if you want to flush more $$$ on gas down the toilet, it's your business, not mine. Personally, I try to keep my expenses low, and gas can be a big expense, depending on your vehicle and commute. I'd rather drive a 35+ miles-per-gallon Honda than a 15 miles-per-gallon SUV... :) "If at any time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be uprooted, torn down and destroyed, and if that nation I warned repents of its evil, then I will relent and not inflict on it the disaster I had planned. And if at another time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be built up and planted, and if it does evil in my sight and does not obey me, then I will reconsider the good I had intended to do for it." -- Jeremiah 18:7-10 (God, commenting on the value of the United Nations)

Chris Richardson

I couldn't agree more. I can understand what Christopher Duncan is needing his SUV for (towing), but the fact is, most of the guys you see driving the X5's or the ML's are trying to impress the neighbors by showing how much money they can waste. Paul Watson wrote: For the price of one BMW X5 I can get a BMW M3 and a Jeep Grand Cherokee :drool: M3. The new M3's are so cool. Chris Richardson

Andreas Saurwein

The tale that SUVs are not suitable for offroad is plainly wrong. Not long ago, I've seen a pretty direct comparism on a german sports channel between a Landrover and a Mercedes ML. They needed to admit in the end that offroad there is not much difference between these too, while on the highway the Mercedes is quite a comfortable speeder (> 200 max). The Landrover has just a higher ground distance, so it clearly wins on any very rough ground where the others get stuck. I've seen the Toyota RAV4 climbing over rocks big as a Mini Cooper and yet you cant drive it on the highway. Personally, I like the design of the Volvo XC90, but also the new Lexus convertible. If I'm about to waste money most probably I wont buy a SUV. (I still like the Volvo V70-T5) cheers I keep submitting “VB” as a Priority-1 bug, but apparently no one here knows how to fix it. Nick Hodapp, Semicolon

Jon Sagara

* Hauling Loads * Pulling a boat or other heavy trailer * Offroading (yes, some of us actually do enjoy that activity) * Hauling the kids around * Hauling clients around comfortably (lots of room) * Hunting trips * Generally safer due to simple matters of physics (more weight, bigger vehicle - however, most are easier to roll) * Power of a 4x4 with versatility of an automobile. Of course, I would never buy one. For roughly the same price, I can buy a *real* truck. :) Jon Sagara Help me out here, Spock. I don't speak stupid.

Lost User

As far as I can tell, the main reason people drive them is so they can look down on you when stuck in traffic - giving them a false sense of superiority! :laugh: :laugh: I mean, how many people actually off-road in the things? Very few. However, a friend of mine used to own a old Mahindra jeep, and boy, was that fun off-road!!! :-D :-D

Faith. Believing in something you *know* isn't true.

Paul Watson

Andreas Saurwein wrote: I've seen the Toyota RAV4 climbing over rocks big as a Mini Cooper and yet you cant drive it on the highway. I can make my Toyota Tazz climb over a rock the size of a Mini Cooper. Tests outside of a real environment are worthless. Saying that though the Rav 4 is regarded as quite good offroad, though mainly because it is relatively small and lightweight. Andreas Saurwein wrote: The Landrover has just a higher ground distance, so it clearly wins on any very rough ground where the others get stuck. Errr, isn't that the point? Especially for down south here where offroad equals really offroad. Plus once again the tests mentioned probably were out of a real environment and maximised the chances of the ML looking good by choosing things it was good at. I have heard some horror stories about the ML in muddy or sandy ground (apparently it has no manual diff lock or something (I am no expert.)) Really if the ML, X5 etc. were as good as they say then the Camel Trophy would be the BMW Camel Trophy and we would be watching X5s ploughing through the countryside (more money that way.) But we don't, because a Landy just goes where they cannot. Hell even the promotional material downplays the SUVs offroad capability and even the manufacturers recommend not taking them anywhere too hectic. Sure most people don't go hectic places, but then a simple Subaru Forrester or Toyota RAV 4 would do rather than a half a million Rand SUV. As for the comfort speed thing. In the conditions that most SUVs go an Audi Allroader will do just brilliantly and onroad rides exceptionally well, yet it costs far less than an SUV (plus suped up Forresters are quite wicked onroad apparently.) Andreas Saurwein wrote: Personally, I like the design of the Volvo XC90 I agree it looks great.

Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South Africa

Paul Watson

Robert Edward Caldecott wrote: However, a friend of mine used to own a old Mahindra jeep Yeah well that is not an SUV IMO. That is a serious offroad tool :-D Robert Edward Caldecott wrote: giving them a false sense of superiority! I can just imagine Robert, all furtive loik, giggling insanely as he drives his Mini under an SUV to get into a parking bay before the SUV. False sense indeed :-D

Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South Africa

Brian Delahunty

I saw a documentary on Discovery about them before and I remember that they did have some cool features.. self-inflating tyers and stuff like that but personally I think it's for image. Regards, Brian Dela :-)

brianwelsch

I don't get it either. I'm sure it makes plenty of sense for some people, but many people I know who have an SUV do not have kids that need hauling, boats to pull, offroading to do, clients to impress, or most of the things anyone has been coming up with. Generally, people like the look and image, and don't care about gas mileage, insurance, or driving experience. I love hearing some people bitch about an extra 5-10 cents per gallon of gas, and then turn around and hop into their SUV. :laugh: BW The only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to talk, mad to live, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding. - Jack Kerouac

Paul Watson

brianwelsch wrote: I love hearing some people bitch about an extra 5-10 cents per gallon of gas, and then turn around and hop into their SUV LOL! How typical, happens all around the world. The latest bitching fad here involves "Damn but food has gone up!" and then reaching for a packect of crisps and a chocolate :-D brianwelsch wrote: The only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to talk, mad to live, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding. - Jack Kerouac :) (I say far too many commonplace things... ahh well, wheres that lighter then?)

Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South Africa

Chris Losinger

friends of friends of our's just got a new Hummer. these people live in the center of the city; there's not a serious dirt road or even a respectable hill for probably 60 miles around. why? because they can. -c

Alcohol is the anesthesia by which we endure the operation of life. -- George Bernard Shaw

Smaller Animals Software

brianwelsch

Paul Watson wrote: I say far too many commonplace things Not a problem so long as its really what you want to say. ;) BW The only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to talk, mad to live, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding. - Jack Kerouac

Stuart van Weele

Around here most of the SUV drivers are women. They drive either too fast or much too slow, are driving while on the phone, and think nothing of shoehorning a full sized SUV into a parking space designed for a compact car. What I don't understand is why people just don't buy full sized vans. A conversion van is about 1/2 the cost of a SUV, roomier, has more hauling capacity, and costs less to insure. Most SUVs, vans and trucks are built on the same frame and with the same components. About the only thing most vans lack are 4 wheel drive, and to be honest how often do you really need that? One other thing for SUV owners. How do you (or your wife) plan on changing a tire in event of a flat, especially off road. A full sized SUV tire weighs about 80 pounds, and the lug nuts are tourqued up to a good 200+ ft-lb.

Brit

I read a study a while ago that showed that SUV drivers and minivan drivers were basically the same demographic. But, SUV drivers were less comfortable with the image of being settled down, in a family, and tended to regard minivans almost as a sellout of their masculinity. ------------------------------------------ "Isn't it funny how people say they'll never grow up to be their parents, then one day they look in the mirror and they're moving aircraft carriers into the Gulf region?" - The Onion

Ray Cassick

Paul Watson wrote: just for image sake Nuff said :-D If you are going to get a SUV, GET AN SUV! Go HUMMER!

Paul Watson

Stuart van Weele wrote: One other thing for SUV owners. How do you (or your wife) plan on changing a tire in event of a flat, especially off road. A full sized SUV tire weighs about 80 pounds, and the lug nuts are tourqued up to a good 200+ ft-lb. Good bloody point. Though I must warn anyone with mags (magnesium alloy wheels) to ensure they place a pad of some sort inbetween the wheel and the wheel hub. My damned mags corroded (as all mags are wont to do) and bonded with the wheel hub. Come my first puncture and for the life of me (and three guys from the side of the road tugging, kicking and cursing) we could not get the wheel off to replace it. Had to drive it to the garage where they used a pneumatic hammer to get it off! Apparently a good garage will put these pads in place when they fit your mags.

Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South Africa

Shog9 0

Of the people i know who own SUVs, they can be grouped roughly like this: +I frequently haul around a large family, with lots of gear stuffed into the back and tied to the roof, maybe towing a boat. :| +I wish i had a reason to haul around a lot of gear, and didn't get seasick. :( +It's big. That means it's invincible, right? 'Cause i don't want to have to fix it... :~

Shog9 ------

No one's immune now, from a world of problems No one's exempt now, from a world of pain That's the way that it goes when you're down here with the rest of us...

natalie morales

I'm getting tired of hearing this argument. I drive a Chevrolet Tahoe SUV. It's Huge and I love it. It's a 5.3L V8 engine with 285 horsepower. Why do I drive it? Incredibly comfortable, drives smoothly, size, storage, and looks. I live in Jacksonville,FL where at least half the vehicles on the road are trucks and SUV. My husband drives a BMW Z3 roadster (a new 2002, beautiful car). His car looks so tiny parked next to my truck. I would never buy a luxury model SUV (BMW, Lexus, Mercedes, etc.). I can't see spending $60-70 grand or more on any type of vehicle. I'd be afraid to take it out of my garage. Oddly enough, every SUV driver I know (with only a couple exceptions) is a woman. My husband says its a chick thing : "Little chicks, big cars". I just know that I don't ever want to drive a car again.