Shadow Government
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CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
Well, you didn't answer my question.
ROTFL !!! You did what you always do when cornered, you called me names and tried to distract everyone from your unwillingness to answer.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
You only deserve a gun if you can build it or earn money to buy it. You have the right to own a gun, and use it to protect life, liberty, and property.
This does not answer me, either. Does this mean that a Christian, by definition, thinks people should have guns ? Am I, in your eyes, plainly not a Christian because I believe in a less confrontational lifestyle than arming myself and blowing away people who get in my way ? Where did Jesus endorse this view ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Christian Graus wrote:
I believe in a less confrontational lifestyle than arming myself and blowing away people who get in my way
You seem to forget that the police and military use their guns to enforce upon you the will of corrupt politicians. You think that you live in a utopia, just like N. Koreans are forced to believe, just as Stalin and Hitler forced their constituents and dissenters to believe. They use weapons to forcibly dominate you and terminate you existence if their propaganda (mind control) fails to neutralize you.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album (They sound very much like Metallica, great lyrics too)[^]
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Christian Graus wrote:
I believe in a less confrontational lifestyle than arming myself and blowing away people who get in my way
You seem to forget that the police and military use their guns to enforce upon you the will of corrupt politicians. You think that you live in a utopia, just like N. Koreans are forced to believe, just as Stalin and Hitler forced their constituents and dissenters to believe. They use weapons to forcibly dominate you and terminate you existence if their propaganda (mind control) fails to neutralize you.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album (They sound very much like Metallica, great lyrics too)[^]
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
You seem to forget that the police and military use their guns to enforce upon you the will of corrupt politicians.
Only in your dream world. You're moving well past the questions I asked that you've chosen not to answer, but, while our politicians are corrupt, I don't recall the police or military EVER mistreating me or waving a gun in my face, here OR in the USA.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
You think that you live in a utopia, just like N. Koreans are forced to believe, just as Stalin and Hitler forced their constituents and dissenters to believe.
You invoke Godwin's law more than anyone I know.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
They use weapons to forcibly dominate you and terminate you existence if their propaganda (mind control) fails to neutralize you.
This is yet another sick fantasy, and brings me back to my core question - how is this a Christian world view ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
Well, you didn't answer my question.
ROTFL !!! You did what you always do when cornered, you called me names and tried to distract everyone from your unwillingness to answer.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
You only deserve a gun if you can build it or earn money to buy it. You have the right to own a gun, and use it to protect life, liberty, and property.
This does not answer me, either. Does this mean that a Christian, by definition, thinks people should have guns ? Am I, in your eyes, plainly not a Christian because I believe in a less confrontational lifestyle than arming myself and blowing away people who get in my way ? Where did Jesus endorse this view ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Here is an example of why you are bad. You say that baby credits should be traded on the market, allowing bankers and elite to buy up babies before they are born so they have control over human reproduction in a commercial way and, that allows them to centrally plan the direction of genetics. If you want money and are a women, she can sell her single baby credit. Then she will be sterilized, not able to have a baby. Her right to have a child will be bought by another person who can trade it with sellers Sick, you are lucifarian.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album (They sound very much like Metallica, great lyrics too)[^]
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Here is an example of why you are bad. You say that baby credits should be traded on the market, allowing bankers and elite to buy up babies before they are born so they have control over human reproduction in a commercial way and, that allows them to centrally plan the direction of genetics. If you want money and are a women, she can sell her single baby credit. Then she will be sterilized, not able to have a baby. Her right to have a child will be bought by another person who can trade it with sellers Sick, you are lucifarian.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album (They sound very much like Metallica, great lyrics too)[^]
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
You say that baby credits should be traded on the market, allowing bankers and elite to buy up babies before they are born so they have control over human reproduction in a commercial way and, that allows them to centrally plan the direction of genetics.
Liar.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
hen she will be sterilized, not able to have a baby
Liar
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
Sick, you are lucifarian.
And you, sir, are a liar. How does being a compulsive liar reflect the teachings of Christ ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
You say that baby credits should be traded on the market, allowing bankers and elite to buy up babies before they are born so they have control over human reproduction in a commercial way and, that allows them to centrally plan the direction of genetics.
Liar.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
hen she will be sterilized, not able to have a baby
Liar
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
Sick, you are lucifarian.
And you, sir, are a liar. How does being a compulsive liar reflect the teachings of Christ ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
You are a counterfeit christian who goes around twisting and gnawing on innocence, lusting to make suffer as many as you possibly can for your satisfaction.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album (They sound very much like Metallica, great lyrics too)[^]
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You are a counterfeit christian who goes around twisting and gnawing on innocence, lusting to make suffer as many as you possibly can for your satisfaction.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album (They sound very much like Metallica, great lyrics too)[^]
Yes, I see the pattern here. You tell lies, and invent a version of me that's easy to cut down, while ignoring me. That's what a straw man is BTW. The fact remains, you are a liar, you just accused me of a number of things that I have never said, and you have no defence but more lies. I don't recall Jesus thinking too much of liars, which sort of comes back to my original question. Bet you don't answer it.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Yes, I see the pattern here. You tell lies, and invent a version of me that's easy to cut down, while ignoring me. That's what a straw man is BTW. The fact remains, you are a liar, you just accused me of a number of things that I have never said, and you have no defence but more lies. I don't recall Jesus thinking too much of liars, which sort of comes back to my original question. Bet you don't answer it.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Christian Graus wrote:
You tell lies, and invent a version of me that's easy to cut down, while ignoring me.
I don't tell lies, I tell you what you have told me about you. You have been on this forum for longer than me, your trail is there for all to see.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album (They sound very much like Metallica, great lyrics too)[^]
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Christian Graus wrote:
You tell lies, and invent a version of me that's easy to cut down, while ignoring me.
I don't tell lies, I tell you what you have told me about you. You have been on this forum for longer than me, your trail is there for all to see.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album (They sound very much like Metallica, great lyrics too)[^]
Well, I can see how your mental disease has caused you to take what I said, and morph it into what you said, but I never said those things. For the record, while discussing the fact that humans today use 40% of the suns energy ( our only external energy source ) to maintain our current population and way of life, and that, despite your elaborate fantasies, the fact is that the earths resources are finite, and therefore some measures to stop people breeding like rabbits will help to ensure our future survival, I have participated in a thought experiment about the ways that population may be controlled. I stated from the outset that I didn't see my suggestion ever being workable, but that I suggested that all people are given the right to one child, a right that some people could choose to sell directly to people willing to pay to have more than one. I never suggested any bankers get involved, any people be sterilised, or anything remotely related to eugenics. Those are all lies, and you are a liar. Pants on fire. It's a good way to change the subject when I ask questions you're scared to answer, I'll accept that much.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Of course you would say that evil does not exist, because you are evil.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album (They sound very much like Metallica, great lyrics too)[^]
There's a difference between evil and cartoonish supervillainy. The bible doesn't contain much of the later, at least that's framed as being done by the bad people(though random natives seem to be perfectly fine targets for horrific acts and no one seems to blink an eye). Yet, people ascribe all kinds of such things to the text which aren't actually supported.
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Christian Graus wrote:
I told you long ago that your talk of a new world order was a step towards becoming part of the Christian Right Wing, and believing in the antichrist and the tribulation. You laughed at me. Now it seems I am proven right.
I have always been Christian Right-Wing. Tell me what is wrong with that? The documentary is correct, conservative Christians and the like are being systematically demonized, prostituted, and persecuted. They got us to accept this type of religious persecution with 9/11. Now they are shifting the definition of a terrorist to right-wingers, pro-lifers, gun owners, and Christians. People have become so programmed using the word terrorist that it is like pushing a button on people to make this do what you want. Its a psychological operation. Nothing about those types should bring up images of toothless radicals or whatever the image implanted into everybody through years of propaganda.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album (They sound very much like Metallica, great lyrics too)[^]
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
The documentary is correct, conservative Christians and the like are being systematically demonized, prostituted, and persecuted.
Oh those poor people who only wish to make everyone live by their rules despite what constitutional protections there may be for those of us who think you're believing a two millenia old con job. But honestly, look at this, they're prostituting themselves, they're crying foul when they are stopped at stomping on the rights of others, and then call persecution when someone says happy holidays to them. Look into their own damn history, persecution should not be something they call out about when they don't get their way, the early followers were tossed to lions, THAT is persecution. And feel free to claim this is all a media representation of them, but I have piles of quotes from individuals who are living embodiments of this idiotic sentiment.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
Now they are shifting the definition of a terrorist to right-wingers, pro-lifers, gun owners, and Christians.
If we look into our history, we have far more attacks by those people than muslims or pretty much any other group. Even in the last two decades. If you go back further they're about the only ones.
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CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
I have always been Christian Right-Wing
Really ? You've not indicated that in the past.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
The documentary is correct, conservative Christians and the like are being systematically demonized, prostituted, and persecuted.
Rubbish. Where ? In America ?
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
They got us to accept this type of religious persecution with 9/11
Again, where is the correlation ? Do you mean the persecution of Muslims ?
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
Now they are shifting the definition of a terrorist to right-wingers, pro-lifers, gun owners, and Christians
Who is ? Remember, I've been to much of the USA. I've seen no persecution of Christians, even illiterate ones ( that is, ones who believe in a coming great tribulation, world government and antiChrist ). In fact, in Texas, you wouldn't fit in at all if you made clear that you were NOT a Christian, at least in the places I've been. Megachurches on every corner, hard to drive at certain times on sundays and not get caught in traffic jams of people leaving church. They don't appear persecuted to me.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
People have become so programmed using the word terrorist that it is like pushing a button on people to make this do what you want. Its a psychological operation.
And it's in your head. What I'm interested in discussing, is your Christianity ( so called ). I'd never have guessed from the way that you treat people here, that you claim to follow Christ. How is it manifested in your life ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
I'll do a response for this one.
Christian Graus wrote:
Where ? In America ?
I'll go so far as to agree with CSS on the fact that they're being demonized (not persecuted). Anyone that subscribes to a religion is called insane or stupid, something of that nature. In America, and any western land.
Christian Graus wrote:
Again, where is the correlation ? Do you mean the persecution of Muslims ?
I could believe this, but I don't know where he was going with this.
Christian Graus wrote:
CaptainSeeSharp wrote: Now they are shifting the definition of a terrorist to right-wingers, pro-lifers, gun owners, and Christians Who is ?
"Liberals". Boy, has that word got screwed up over the past fifty years.
Christian Graus wrote:
CaptainSeeSharp wrote: People have become so programmed using the word terrorist that it is like pushing a button on people to make this do what you want. Its a psychological operation. And it's in your head.
No, I'd agree with CSS on this one. Terrorism is a dirty word, of course, and always has been. But it's thrown around so easily that it's just turning into a namecalling. Just like "right-wing extremist". They're just general words that mean nothing after some time.
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I'll do a response for this one.
Christian Graus wrote:
Where ? In America ?
I'll go so far as to agree with CSS on the fact that they're being demonized (not persecuted). Anyone that subscribes to a religion is called insane or stupid, something of that nature. In America, and any western land.
Christian Graus wrote:
Again, where is the correlation ? Do you mean the persecution of Muslims ?
I could believe this, but I don't know where he was going with this.
Christian Graus wrote:
CaptainSeeSharp wrote: Now they are shifting the definition of a terrorist to right-wingers, pro-lifers, gun owners, and Christians Who is ?
"Liberals". Boy, has that word got screwed up over the past fifty years.
Christian Graus wrote:
CaptainSeeSharp wrote: People have become so programmed using the word terrorist that it is like pushing a button on people to make this do what you want. Its a psychological operation. And it's in your head.
No, I'd agree with CSS on this one. Terrorism is a dirty word, of course, and always has been. But it's thrown around so easily that it's just turning into a namecalling. Just like "right-wing extremist". They're just general words that mean nothing after some time.
josda1000 wrote:
'll go so far as to agree with CSS on the fact that they're being demonized (not persecuted). Anyone that subscribes to a religion is called insane or stupid, something of that nature. In America, and any western land.
Fixed that for ya... Speaking as an atheist, we're all called insane or stupid at one time or another, whether we subscribe to a religion or not. It's lessened a bit in recent years, or maybe people are just a little too PC to say what they're thinking, but it's pretty obvious that many religious types don't think very highly of us non-religious folk. I found it especially amusing when people used to tell me that I was going to go to hell for my lack of belief. It was a great setup for a joke... "You mean I'm going to stay in this [town|school|*] forever!?"
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Author of Guardians of Xen (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novel)
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josda1000 wrote:
'll go so far as to agree with CSS on the fact that they're being demonized (not persecuted). Anyone that subscribes to a religion is called insane or stupid, something of that nature. In America, and any western land.
Fixed that for ya... Speaking as an atheist, we're all called insane or stupid at one time or another, whether we subscribe to a religion or not. It's lessened a bit in recent years, or maybe people are just a little too PC to say what they're thinking, but it's pretty obvious that many religious types don't think very highly of us non-religious folk. I found it especially amusing when people used to tell me that I was going to go to hell for my lack of belief. It was a great setup for a joke... "You mean I'm going to stay in this [town|school|*] forever!?"
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Author of Guardians of Xen (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novel)
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I'll do a response for this one.
Christian Graus wrote:
Where ? In America ?
I'll go so far as to agree with CSS on the fact that they're being demonized (not persecuted). Anyone that subscribes to a religion is called insane or stupid, something of that nature. In America, and any western land.
Christian Graus wrote:
Again, where is the correlation ? Do you mean the persecution of Muslims ?
I could believe this, but I don't know where he was going with this.
Christian Graus wrote:
CaptainSeeSharp wrote: Now they are shifting the definition of a terrorist to right-wingers, pro-lifers, gun owners, and Christians Who is ?
"Liberals". Boy, has that word got screwed up over the past fifty years.
Christian Graus wrote:
CaptainSeeSharp wrote: People have become so programmed using the word terrorist that it is like pushing a button on people to make this do what you want. Its a psychological operation. And it's in your head.
No, I'd agree with CSS on this one. Terrorism is a dirty word, of course, and always has been. But it's thrown around so easily that it's just turning into a namecalling. Just like "right-wing extremist". They're just general words that mean nothing after some time.
josda1000 wrote:
I'll go so far as to agree with CSS on the fact that they're being demonized (not persecuted). Anyone that subscribes to a religion is called insane or stupid, something of that nature. In America, and any western land.
I know what you're trying to say, but this still bugs me. Let's take mainstream Christian belief for a second: The invisible man in the sky loves me. Loosely, as until recently heaven was supposed to be in the sky(according to belief if not the actual texts it's based on). Now, if this wasn't religion it would be called a delusion wouldn't it? When the beliefs in question require specific exemption to not be a psychiatric condition I'd have to say it's rather hard to paint them as being insane, it's the definition. No matter how much hand waving you do, it still requires a specific exemption. Why exactly people can see that and not ask the same question themselves I don't really get it.
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josda1000 wrote:
I'll go so far as to agree with CSS on the fact that they're being demonized (not persecuted). Anyone that subscribes to a religion is called insane or stupid, something of that nature. In America, and any western land.
I know what you're trying to say, but this still bugs me. Let's take mainstream Christian belief for a second: The invisible man in the sky loves me. Loosely, as until recently heaven was supposed to be in the sky(according to belief if not the actual texts it's based on). Now, if this wasn't religion it would be called a delusion wouldn't it? When the beliefs in question require specific exemption to not be a psychiatric condition I'd have to say it's rather hard to paint them as being insane, it's the definition. No matter how much hand waving you do, it still requires a specific exemption. Why exactly people can see that and not ask the same question themselves I don't really get it.
Ok, I have to quote St. George...... Carlin. (Being an atheist, I don't have any "saints," so I just attribute the title to my favorite stand-up comedians, dead or living). "Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man up there in sky! And he watches everything you do and everything you say... And he has a special list of ten things he does NOT want you to do... And if you do ANY of these things, he has a special place for you, full of fire and brimstone where you'll BURN and SUFFER in PAIN for ALL ETERNITY!!! ....... But he loves you! He loves you and he NEEDS MONEY! All powerful, all knowing, all seeing, but just can't seem to handle money!" (From memory, so not completely accurate - Man, if I didn't memorize so many comedy acts, I'd have a lot more room in my head for less important things)
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Author of Guardians of Xen (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novel)
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josda1000 wrote:
I'll go so far as to agree with CSS on the fact that they're being demonized (not persecuted). Anyone that subscribes to a religion is called insane or stupid, something of that nature. In America, and any western land.
I know what you're trying to say, but this still bugs me. Let's take mainstream Christian belief for a second: The invisible man in the sky loves me. Loosely, as until recently heaven was supposed to be in the sky(according to belief if not the actual texts it's based on). Now, if this wasn't religion it would be called a delusion wouldn't it? When the beliefs in question require specific exemption to not be a psychiatric condition I'd have to say it's rather hard to paint them as being insane, it's the definition. No matter how much hand waving you do, it still requires a specific exemption. Why exactly people can see that and not ask the same question themselves I don't really get it.
Look I'm not here to debate religion. Except I suppose we often do debate religion here, though it's called "socialism". Socialism never worked, and capitalism does. Too bad we have "corporatism" in the western world, not so much capitalism. Anyway... Yes, people believe in a man in the clouds. I don't. I believe in people.
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Look I'm not here to debate religion. Except I suppose we often do debate religion here, though it's called "socialism". Socialism never worked, and capitalism does. Too bad we have "corporatism" in the western world, not so much capitalism. Anyway... Yes, people believe in a man in the clouds. I don't. I believe in people.
Just pegging that point about them being labeled insane more so than anything else. Capitalism doesn't work any better than socialism, as it has the same failing. The key so far had been balancing between the two, keeping the greedy idiots in check while attempting to keep the nation viable for economic growth while ensuring a basic decent standard of living for the average person. Every time we let the capitalists out of the bag(or they find a way out on their own) they wind up going nuts and cause another economic implosion before anyone figures out what they're doing (including themselves generally). The problem with capitalism is that it's only motivator is money, it takes no account for human decency, or even law when it gets it's way long enough. The problem with socialism is that it forgets humans are greedy and generally don't have any drive to help others. So, you go along the lines of "Ok you greedy turd, you've exploited these people over here so we're taking a fraction of the money you made off them to assist them." and things generally work reasonably well. Fewer starving workers, fewer food riots, and generally less major disruptions of economic ability. No human society/economic system really works, just the ones that fail the least. Unless of course monetary gain is the only measure, in which case yes, capitalism generally wins, though corporatism could probably hand it it's ass if we went back to a colonial style of it.
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CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
The documentary is correct, conservative Christians and the like are being systematically demonized, prostituted, and persecuted.
Oh those poor people who only wish to make everyone live by their rules despite what constitutional protections there may be for those of us who think you're believing a two millenia old con job. But honestly, look at this, they're prostituting themselves, they're crying foul when they are stopped at stomping on the rights of others, and then call persecution when someone says happy holidays to them. Look into their own damn history, persecution should not be something they call out about when they don't get their way, the early followers were tossed to lions, THAT is persecution. And feel free to claim this is all a media representation of them, but I have piles of quotes from individuals who are living embodiments of this idiotic sentiment.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
Now they are shifting the definition of a terrorist to right-wingers, pro-lifers, gun owners, and Christians.
If we look into our history, we have far more attacks by those people than muslims or pretty much any other group. Even in the last two decades. If you go back further they're about the only ones.
Oh but islam is a religion of peace right?
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album (They sound very much like Metallica, great lyrics too)[^]
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Just pegging that point about them being labeled insane more so than anything else. Capitalism doesn't work any better than socialism, as it has the same failing. The key so far had been balancing between the two, keeping the greedy idiots in check while attempting to keep the nation viable for economic growth while ensuring a basic decent standard of living for the average person. Every time we let the capitalists out of the bag(or they find a way out on their own) they wind up going nuts and cause another economic implosion before anyone figures out what they're doing (including themselves generally). The problem with capitalism is that it's only motivator is money, it takes no account for human decency, or even law when it gets it's way long enough. The problem with socialism is that it forgets humans are greedy and generally don't have any drive to help others. So, you go along the lines of "Ok you greedy turd, you've exploited these people over here so we're taking a fraction of the money you made off them to assist them." and things generally work reasonably well. Fewer starving workers, fewer food riots, and generally less major disruptions of economic ability. No human society/economic system really works, just the ones that fail the least. Unless of course monetary gain is the only measure, in which case yes, capitalism generally wins, though corporatism could probably hand it it's ass if we went back to a colonial style of it.
Socialism is just a way for the powerful minority to grab power, making everyone dependent on the government, and centrally plan the economy.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album (They sound very much like Metallica, great lyrics too)[^]
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Socialism is just a way for the powerful minority to grab power, making everyone dependent on the government, and centrally plan the economy.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album (They sound very much like Metallica, great lyrics too)[^]
And capitalism is just a way for the largest corporations to grab power, making everyone slaves to their profit margin, and consolidate into monopolies and centrally plan the economy. When are you going to get it through your head that neither system is perfect, and that it takes a combination of both to achieve any kind of decent society?
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Author of Guardians of Xen (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novel)