Shadow Government
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Look I'm not here to debate religion. Except I suppose we often do debate religion here, though it's called "socialism". Socialism never worked, and capitalism does. Too bad we have "corporatism" in the western world, not so much capitalism. Anyway... Yes, people believe in a man in the clouds. I don't. I believe in people.
Just pegging that point about them being labeled insane more so than anything else. Capitalism doesn't work any better than socialism, as it has the same failing. The key so far had been balancing between the two, keeping the greedy idiots in check while attempting to keep the nation viable for economic growth while ensuring a basic decent standard of living for the average person. Every time we let the capitalists out of the bag(or they find a way out on their own) they wind up going nuts and cause another economic implosion before anyone figures out what they're doing (including themselves generally). The problem with capitalism is that it's only motivator is money, it takes no account for human decency, or even law when it gets it's way long enough. The problem with socialism is that it forgets humans are greedy and generally don't have any drive to help others. So, you go along the lines of "Ok you greedy turd, you've exploited these people over here so we're taking a fraction of the money you made off them to assist them." and things generally work reasonably well. Fewer starving workers, fewer food riots, and generally less major disruptions of economic ability. No human society/economic system really works, just the ones that fail the least. Unless of course monetary gain is the only measure, in which case yes, capitalism generally wins, though corporatism could probably hand it it's ass if we went back to a colonial style of it.
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CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
The documentary is correct, conservative Christians and the like are being systematically demonized, prostituted, and persecuted.
Oh those poor people who only wish to make everyone live by their rules despite what constitutional protections there may be for those of us who think you're believing a two millenia old con job. But honestly, look at this, they're prostituting themselves, they're crying foul when they are stopped at stomping on the rights of others, and then call persecution when someone says happy holidays to them. Look into their own damn history, persecution should not be something they call out about when they don't get their way, the early followers were tossed to lions, THAT is persecution. And feel free to claim this is all a media representation of them, but I have piles of quotes from individuals who are living embodiments of this idiotic sentiment.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
Now they are shifting the definition of a terrorist to right-wingers, pro-lifers, gun owners, and Christians.
If we look into our history, we have far more attacks by those people than muslims or pretty much any other group. Even in the last two decades. If you go back further they're about the only ones.
Oh but islam is a religion of peace right?
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album (They sound very much like Metallica, great lyrics too)[^]
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Just pegging that point about them being labeled insane more so than anything else. Capitalism doesn't work any better than socialism, as it has the same failing. The key so far had been balancing between the two, keeping the greedy idiots in check while attempting to keep the nation viable for economic growth while ensuring a basic decent standard of living for the average person. Every time we let the capitalists out of the bag(or they find a way out on their own) they wind up going nuts and cause another economic implosion before anyone figures out what they're doing (including themselves generally). The problem with capitalism is that it's only motivator is money, it takes no account for human decency, or even law when it gets it's way long enough. The problem with socialism is that it forgets humans are greedy and generally don't have any drive to help others. So, you go along the lines of "Ok you greedy turd, you've exploited these people over here so we're taking a fraction of the money you made off them to assist them." and things generally work reasonably well. Fewer starving workers, fewer food riots, and generally less major disruptions of economic ability. No human society/economic system really works, just the ones that fail the least. Unless of course monetary gain is the only measure, in which case yes, capitalism generally wins, though corporatism could probably hand it it's ass if we went back to a colonial style of it.
Socialism is just a way for the powerful minority to grab power, making everyone dependent on the government, and centrally plan the economy.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album (They sound very much like Metallica, great lyrics too)[^]
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Socialism is just a way for the powerful minority to grab power, making everyone dependent on the government, and centrally plan the economy.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album (They sound very much like Metallica, great lyrics too)[^]
And capitalism is just a way for the largest corporations to grab power, making everyone slaves to their profit margin, and consolidate into monopolies and centrally plan the economy. When are you going to get it through your head that neither system is perfect, and that it takes a combination of both to achieve any kind of decent society?
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Author of Guardians of Xen (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novel)
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Oh but islam is a religion of peace right?
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album (They sound very much like Metallica, great lyrics too)[^]
Private WeeParts: Now they are shifting the definition of a terrorist to right-wingers, pro-lifers, gun owners, and Christians. Distind: If we look into our history, we have far more attacks by those people than muslims or pretty much any other group. Even in the last two decades. If you go back further they're about the only ones. Private WeeParts: Oh but islam is a religion of peace right? And today, children, you learned what a non sequitur is.
Bob Emmett @ Ynys Thanatos
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And capitalism is just a way for the largest corporations to grab power, making everyone slaves to their profit margin, and consolidate into monopolies and centrally plan the economy. When are you going to get it through your head that neither system is perfect, and that it takes a combination of both to achieve any kind of decent society?
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Author of Guardians of Xen (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novel)
Ian Shlasko wrote:
And capitalism is just a way for the largest corporations to grab power
Government hold power, not corporations. However with our corrupt government, corporations can buy politicians and seize power by having the corrupt government write legislation that allows it. We live in a bankrupt socialist welfare/warfare internationally owned Corporatocracy. It isn't about left vs right, socialism vs capitalism, this is about liberty vs tyranny.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album (They sound very much like Metallica, great lyrics too)[^]
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Private WeeParts: Now they are shifting the definition of a terrorist to right-wingers, pro-lifers, gun owners, and Christians. Distind: If we look into our history, we have far more attacks by those people than muslims or pretty much any other group. Even in the last two decades. If you go back further they're about the only ones. Private WeeParts: Oh but islam is a religion of peace right? And today, children, you learned what a non sequitur is.
Bob Emmett @ Ynys Thanatos
Aren't pronouns fun?
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Author of Guardians of Xen (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novel)
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Ian Shlasko wrote:
And capitalism is just a way for the largest corporations to grab power
Government hold power, not corporations. However with our corrupt government, corporations can buy politicians and seize power by having the corrupt government write legislation that allows it. We live in a bankrupt socialist welfare/warfare internationally owned Corporatocracy. It isn't about left vs right, socialism vs capitalism, this is about liberty vs tyranny.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album (They sound very much like Metallica, great lyrics too)[^]
No, in TRUE capitalism, the economy is unregulated, which means the government effectively has no power. What we have now is NOT true capitalism, but rather a mix of capitalism and socialism. You might be better at this whole "debate" thing if you actually understood your own buzzwords.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
It isn't about left vs right, socialism vs capitalism, this is about liberty vs tyranny.
Then why are you complaining about socialism, if this isn't about socialism?
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Author of Guardians of Xen (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novel)
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Private WeeParts: Now they are shifting the definition of a terrorist to right-wingers, pro-lifers, gun owners, and Christians. Distind: If we look into our history, we have far more attacks by those people than muslims or pretty much any other group. Even in the last two decades. If you go back further they're about the only ones. Private WeeParts: Oh but islam is a religion of peace right? And today, children, you learned what a non sequitur is.
Bob Emmett @ Ynys Thanatos
You believe he actually said something worth reading? He is the type of people that ruthlessly demonize Christians while at the same time say they are more radical that muslims, inject some racism, and do it with great disdain.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album (They sound very much like Metallica, great lyrics too)[^]
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No, in TRUE capitalism, the economy is unregulated, which means the government effectively has no power. What we have now is NOT true capitalism, but rather a mix of capitalism and socialism. You might be better at this whole "debate" thing if you actually understood your own buzzwords.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
It isn't about left vs right, socialism vs capitalism, this is about liberty vs tyranny.
Then why are you complaining about socialism, if this isn't about socialism?
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Author of Guardians of Xen (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novel)
Ian Shlasko wrote:
the economy is unregulated, which means the government effectively has no power.
The economy is not unregulated. Property rights laws and standard legislation force business to obey the law and respect the rights and property of others. Such as laws against false advertising, collusion, and fraud and so many others. These basic standard laws are enforced just like the rest, basic laws of property rights and personal liberty.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album (They sound very much like Metallica, great lyrics too)[^]
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Christian Graus wrote:
I told you long ago that your talk of a new world order was a step towards becoming part of the Christian Right Wing, and believing in the antichrist and the tribulation. You laughed at me. Now it seems I am proven right.
I have always been Christian Right-Wing. Tell me what is wrong with that? The documentary is correct, conservative Christians and the like are being systematically demonized, prostituted, and persecuted. They got us to accept this type of religious persecution with 9/11. Now they are shifting the definition of a terrorist to right-wingers, pro-lifers, gun owners, and Christians. People have become so programmed using the word terrorist that it is like pushing a button on people to make this do what you want. Its a psychological operation. Nothing about those types should bring up images of toothless radicals or whatever the image implanted into everybody through years of propaganda.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album (They sound very much like Metallica, great lyrics too)[^]
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
Now they are shifting the definition of a terrorist to right-wingers, pro-lifers, gun owners, and Christians.
No 'they' are not. 'They' are merely reminding 'their' law enforcement agencies that there is a radical 'right' as well as a radical 'left'; and that the 'right' is just as capable of terrorist acts as the 'left'. BTW: You missed military veterans from your list.
Bob Emmett @ Ynys Thanatos
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CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
Now they are shifting the definition of a terrorist to right-wingers, pro-lifers, gun owners, and Christians.
No 'they' are not. 'They' are merely reminding 'their' law enforcement agencies that there is a radical 'right' as well as a radical 'left'; and that the 'right' is just as capable of terrorist acts as the 'left'. BTW: You missed military veterans from your list.
Bob Emmett @ Ynys Thanatos
You are stuck in the left-right paradigm.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album (They sound very much like Metallica, great lyrics too)[^]
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Ian Shlasko wrote:
the economy is unregulated, which means the government effectively has no power.
The economy is not unregulated. Property rights laws and standard legislation force business to obey the law and respect the rights and property of others. Such as laws against false advertising, collusion, and fraud and so many others. These basic standard laws are enforced just like the rest, basic laws of property rights and personal liberty.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album (They sound very much like Metallica, great lyrics too)[^]
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
The economy is not unregulated. Property rights laws and standard legislation force business to obey the law and respect the rights and property of others. Such as laws against false advertising, collusion, and fraud and so many others. These basic standard laws are enforced just like the rest, basic laws of property rights and personal liberty.
Which happens to be... regulation. If you hold them to laws, you ARE regulating them. Standard legislation is socialism. Pure Capitalism does not have any such restrictions. It was the case in the early industrial revolution. Congrats. You fail.
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Ian Shlasko wrote:
the economy is unregulated, which means the government effectively has no power.
The economy is not unregulated. Property rights laws and standard legislation force business to obey the law and respect the rights and property of others. Such as laws against false advertising, collusion, and fraud and so many others. These basic standard laws are enforced just like the rest, basic laws of property rights and personal liberty.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album (They sound very much like Metallica, great lyrics too)[^]
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
The economy is not unregulated. Property rights laws and standard legislation force business to obey the law and respect the rights and property of others. Such as laws against false advertising, collusion, and fraud and so many others. These basic standard laws are enforced just like the rest, basic laws of property rights and personal liberty.
Except that in true capitalism, the government does NOT do ANY type of wage or price control. No minimum wage, for one. Minimum wage is a socialistic element. So on the low end, you'll have slave labor, and on the high end, you'll have filthy rich corporate executives (Just like we have now, but moreso). True capitalism tends toward larger and larger companies, which eventually results in monopolies. At that point, you either accept government regulation (Government-operated companies = Socialism), forced government intervention by way of splitting the company (More socialism), or just let them control the entire industry (Capitalistic slavery). In other words, true capitalism is just as dangerous as true socialism.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Author of Guardians of Xen (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novel)
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CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
The economy is not unregulated. Property rights laws and standard legislation force business to obey the law and respect the rights and property of others. Such as laws against false advertising, collusion, and fraud and so many others. These basic standard laws are enforced just like the rest, basic laws of property rights and personal liberty.
Which happens to be... regulation. If you hold them to laws, you ARE regulating them. Standard legislation is socialism. Pure Capitalism does not have any such restrictions. It was the case in the early industrial revolution. Congrats. You fail.
The regulation being proposed sounds like a retaliatory attack on big banks and corporations, but its actually in their favor. Do you really think they would give up their power? Obama was hired by them, and he is doing a great job giving them all the money they want and further developing the Corpratocracy.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album (They sound very much like Metallica, great lyrics too)[^]
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You believe he actually said something worth reading? He is the type of people that ruthlessly demonize Christians while at the same time say they are more radical that muslims, inject some racism, and do it with great disdain.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album (They sound very much like Metallica, great lyrics too)[^]
You know who holds the 2nd spot on biggest act of terrorism in the US? Oklahoma City. You know, those right wing christians that blew up a building of government workers that weren't even in the same state as the people that angered them... But hey, that's not a big deal. Ever see what sort of terror is inflicted on people trying to get an abortion in certain states? Radical fanatics are pretty much the same, no matter what religion they come from.
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The regulation being proposed sounds like a retaliatory attack on big banks and corporations, but its actually in their favor. Do you really think they would give up their power? Obama was hired by them, and he is doing a great job giving them all the money they want and further developing the Corpratocracy.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album (They sound very much like Metallica, great lyrics too)[^]
You realized that you lost the argument, so you're changing the subject. The argument you're debating against is:
Government regulation == SocialismProud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Author of Guardians of Xen (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novel)
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CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
The economy is not unregulated. Property rights laws and standard legislation force business to obey the law and respect the rights and property of others. Such as laws against false advertising, collusion, and fraud and so many others. These basic standard laws are enforced just like the rest, basic laws of property rights and personal liberty.
Except that in true capitalism, the government does NOT do ANY type of wage or price control. No minimum wage, for one. Minimum wage is a socialistic element. So on the low end, you'll have slave labor, and on the high end, you'll have filthy rich corporate executives (Just like we have now, but moreso). True capitalism tends toward larger and larger companies, which eventually results in monopolies. At that point, you either accept government regulation (Government-operated companies = Socialism), forced government intervention by way of splitting the company (More socialism), or just let them control the entire industry (Capitalistic slavery). In other words, true capitalism is just as dangerous as true socialism.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Author of Guardians of Xen (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novel)
Ian Shlasko wrote:
the government does NOT do ANY type of wage or price control
Its called respecting property rights. A person's labor is his/her property, and should be exchanged at the rate they agree upon. If a company wants workers, then they have to give them incentives to work. Over in China and similar countries, their economy is extremely regulated, they have slave labor camps where women live in factories, they have no choice because their government controls the economy.
Ian Shlasko wrote:
True capitalism tends toward larger and larger companies
No it doesn't, it tends to private individuals trading and innovating. That how how America because the most prosperous nation in the world. There was the sovereign free individual and the free market for him to make money and buy goods and services. You are thinking of Corpratacracy again, that is something different than capitalism, that is why they have different words designated to them, they are not one in the same. Again, you are one who is stuck in left vs right, capitalism vs socialism, coke vs pepsi... Its a fixed game, you will get nothing but a corporate run government, managed offshore, having their way with our money, labor, and natural resources.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album (They sound very much like Metallica, great lyrics too)[^]
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You know who holds the 2nd spot on biggest act of terrorism in the US? Oklahoma City. You know, those right wing christians that blew up a building of government workers that weren't even in the same state as the people that angered them... But hey, that's not a big deal. Ever see what sort of terror is inflicted on people trying to get an abortion in certain states? Radical fanatics are pretty much the same, no matter what religion they come from.
The government did that as a false-flag style op. They do that kind of thing all the time. There are even some old plans to go to war with Cuba called Operation Northwoods (declassified, look it up and read the documenet). Northwoods involves the CIA running a false-flag attack on one of our major cities and blaming it on the communists.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album (They sound very much like Metallica, great lyrics too)[^]
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You realized that you lost the argument, so you're changing the subject. The argument you're debating against is:
Government regulation == SocialismProud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Author of Guardians of Xen (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novel)