concealed weapons
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In the UK our gun death rate per capita is (approximately) 1/50th of the US. A rough guide but still...
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That must be because you have no freedom....
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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wolfbinary wrote:
On numerous occasions I've had people justify concealed weapons or the right to have guns with crime control. Never have I heard them address issues of accidental shootings other than to dismiss them without much reason.
wolfbinary wrote:
I don't need to because that's not what the discussion is about. Opposing views is what I'm getting at and how people clash by them.
That is true. You have a totally unbiased presentation here. That is why you presented a case where you show that people justifying concealed weapons don't address the issues you think should be. When I was looking for statistics, I found only one person accidentally killed by someone with a permit, over the space of years, I have heard of many more cases of people rescued from harm because of people with a permit (and a gun). So, if that is true, are you willing to put it the other way? You are a gun controller who is willing to make a big deal about concealed gun carry safety issues, and to dismiss crime prevention statistics without much reason.
Opacity, the new Transparency.
According to the CDC, the number of accidental shooting deaths in 2006, the last year they have numbers, was 642. They do not seem to keep track of how many of those were the result of a registered firearm being used. You're making a different distinction, 'killed by someone with a permit'. This would exclude, for example, if a man has a permit and his son plays with the gun. However, if that happens, it's a death caused by the policy of letting people own firearms, so I think it's still meaningful. Please explain how you can only find one death in the space of years, when the CDC can find 5,150 from 2000 to 2006 ( I'm making some assumptions on your use of the word 'years', their data goes before 2000 ), and doesn't seem to track which guns were registered. What's your source of data ? Knock yourself out[^]
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Hey, I'm not on CSS's side.
Stephen Hewitt wrote:
If a bunch of people who are carrying concealed weapons to "defend themselves" have an argument a fist fight often escalates into something much worse. This happens all the time.
Look up statistics on the use of legally concealed weapons for crimes, all crimes, not just fight escalating to fire fight. It does not happen "all the time". It almost never happens. Except in the Hollywood version of reality. You like a lot of action movies, Steve?
Stephen Hewitt wrote:
increases the chances of one getting into the wrong hands.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: The wrong hands already have them. It's getting them into the right hands that counts.
Opacity, the new Transparency.
RichardM1 wrote:
Look up statistics on the use of legally concealed weapons for crimes
But if you flood society with 'legal' guns, you make it easier for criminals to get them.
RichardM1 wrote:
The wrong hands already have them. It's getting them into the right hands that counts.
Do you have any statistics on the mythically common occurence of US gun owners shooting to defend their life or property ? If it does keep your crime rates lower, why are they so high still ? 'The wrong hands have them' is a furphy, as if flooding society makes no difference, because criminals can just pray to the gun fairy and get guns that way.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Christian Graus wrote:
Well, what do you expect ?
I expect media to report on how the chemicals in the food cause health problems, and how the culture is based on garbage designed to make young people feel bad about themselves and to worship whorish celebrates.
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
I expect media to report on how the chemicals in the food cause health problems
You mean it isn't taught in schools? But, of course, you wouldn't know, you never paid attention.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
how the culture is based on garbage designed to make young people feel bad about themselves and to worship whorish celebrates
No. It is designed to make people (of all ages) feel good about themselves when they use product xx..x. It is all about consumption, and suicides don't consume. Whorish celebrates celebrities? You don't believe that women have as much right to enjoy their sexuality as men? And why do you begrudge people a period of celebrity, no matter how undeserved? They do you no harm, just pay them no heed. A sad old Puritan at 22. :( No wonder you are suicidal.
Bob Emmett CSS: I don't intend to be a technical writing, I intend to be a software engineer.
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Christian Graus wrote:
I would agree that there are deeper issues in US society that are more of an issue for you. But, guns sure don't seem to be helping.
Christian, you prattle on about how messed up America is, ALL the time. Clean up your own country, then come back. What? Really? Nothing bad ever happens in Oz and NZ? Why what an amazing place to live. :rolleyes: Extol that upside down place's virtues instead of whining about the US, OK?
Opacity, the new Transparency.
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Really the real cause of the suicides is antidepressants and the like that explicitly state that a major side-effect is suicide. Give me a fucking break. People are so miserable because of the chemicalized foods, destructive drugs pushed by doctors and governments, and rampant tyranny causing great misery to the people.
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
Really the real cause of the suicides is antidepressants and the like that explicitly state that a major side-effect is suicide.
Or it could be that using a chemical to motivate someone who sees no reason to live is not the brightest of ideas. Chemicals fix certain reactions, psychology is it's own beast and generally the real problem. That said, if it isn't serious I generally avoid pills myself. If it's something you can actually deal with, perhaps use the pill to get it under control, then ween yourself off of it. Barring serious medical conditions there's not to many reasons to down pills beyond convenience.
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Christian Graus wrote:
Well, what do you expect ?
I expect media to report on how the chemicals in the food cause health problems, and how the culture is based on garbage designed to make young people feel bad about themselves and to worship whorish celebrates.
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
Here's an idea, fuck the culture, fix your dinner and ignore what ever stupid crap the idiot you work with spouts off(because I'm fairly sure we all have at least one celebrity stalker in the work area). It's not that hard, and it's surprisingly rewarding. It's amazing what taking individual responsibility for your life can do.
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CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
I expect media to report on how the chemicals in the food cause health problems
So you're against free markets and capitalism ?
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
and how the culture is based on garbage designed to make young people feel bad about themselves and to worship whorish celebrates.
You think that happened by accident ? People choose to be influenced that way. I'm not, because I choose not to be. You want to start a socialist country that tells people what they are allowed to think ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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wolfbinary wrote:
On numerous occasions I've had people justify concealed weapons or the right to have guns with crime control. Never have I heard them address issues of accidental shootings other than to dismiss them without much reason.
wolfbinary wrote:
I don't need to because that's not what the discussion is about. Opposing views is what I'm getting at and how people clash by them.
That is true. You have a totally unbiased presentation here. That is why you presented a case where you show that people justifying concealed weapons don't address the issues you think should be. When I was looking for statistics, I found only one person accidentally killed by someone with a permit, over the space of years, I have heard of many more cases of people rescued from harm because of people with a permit (and a gun). So, if that is true, are you willing to put it the other way? You are a gun controller who is willing to make a big deal about concealed gun carry safety issues, and to dismiss crime prevention statistics without much reason.
Opacity, the new Transparency.
RichardM1 wrote:
You are a gun controller who is willing to make a big deal about concealed gun carry safety issues, and to dismiss crime prevention statistics without much reason.
Your making an assumption here. Several actually. I'm trying to look at this in a pro vs con on both sides as well. Both sides bring up some good points, but I've never heard of either side conceding anything to the other. Is it reasonable for society to accept some people dieing because of accidents caused by legal firearms? What should be done, if anything, to those who bought those guns when things like that occur. Why is it reasonable to not be able to own a howitzer or some other large ordinance weapon but okay for rifles, shotguns, etc? Why aren't all guns registered and treated equally before the law? I don't like to use statistics because people on both sides just use them to justify their own personal beliefs and not to logically or ethically discuss the issue. Statistics are generally used for pointless debate and can be fudged or made up on the spot or subjectively gathered. They also don't help answer the merit of gun manufacturing in general or nature of it.
That's called seagull management (or sometimes pigeon management)... Fly in, flap your arms and squawk a lot, crap all over everything and fly out again... by _Damian S_
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CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
I expect media to report on how the chemicals in the food cause health problems
So you're against free markets and capitalism ?
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
and how the culture is based on garbage designed to make young people feel bad about themselves and to worship whorish celebrates.
You think that happened by accident ? People choose to be influenced that way. I'm not, because I choose not to be. You want to start a socialist country that tells people what they are allowed to think ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Christian Graus wrote:
So you're against free markets and capitalism ?
No but people false advertising is illegal, and so is paying off medical experts and government officials to allow you to sell a food product that is deadly. That is not free market capitalism, it is mafia gangsterism.
Christian Graus wrote:
People choose to be influenced that way.
The new culture is created by social engineers and pushed by schools and the major media which is bought and paid for by the same people who buy politicians.
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
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Christian Graus wrote:
Well, what do you expect ?
I expect media to report on how the chemicals in the food cause health problems, and how the culture is based on garbage designed to make young people feel bad about themselves and to worship whorish celebrates.
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
I expect media to report on...
I bet if YOU were in charge, you'd make sure to tell everyone EXACTLY what to talk about and what to think about, right? Can't have people making their own choices!
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
RichardM1 wrote:
Christian, you prattle on about how messed up America is, ALL the time.
Not really. Just when I mention something in passing ( and I did not start this thread ), all the Americans get upset and cry a bit.
RichardM1 wrote:
Clean up your own country, then come back.
Why ? Are you saying that I am not allowed to notice problems in other countries unless where I live has no problems ? What logic is that ?
RichardM1 wrote:
What? Really? Nothing bad ever happens in Oz and NZ?
Amusingly, I never claimed that. However, having spent a lot of time in the US does give me perspective and enough experience to comment on the ways Australia is better than the US ( no gun nuts, we are not so stupid as to let drug companies advertise on TV, etc ). I can also comment on ways the US is better than Australia. It's just that, to be honest, there's three Aussies who are regulars around here ( maybe 4 ) and so it tends that the majority tend to discuss their own country, leaving me to just throw in my opinion. I've posted plenty on my thoughts of how our welfare system is abused here, for example, so don't tell me I never criticise my country.
RichardM1 wrote:
Extol that upside down place's virtues instead of whining about the US, OK?
The problem is, you assume that any criticism about US is 'anti American' and designed to promote where I live, and it's not. The rest of the world doesn't look at life the way you do, and sometimes it's hard for us to keep that in mind.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Christian Graus wrote:
The problem is, you assume that any criticism about US is 'anti American' and designed to promote where I live, and it's not. The rest of the world doesn't look at life the way you do, and sometimes it's hard for us to keep that in mind.
While you might not be anti-US, when the US is the only country I see you put down (Maybe Mexico,once), and one I see you put down often, anti-US is the way to bet. I am not talking to the rest of the world, I am only talking to you. I don't believe there is any other poster I have felt needed to tell this but you, and this is at least the third time. The pattern is obvious. You should look closer, and more objectively,if you do not see it. Sorry, I did not imply that you were beating up the US to make Oz and NZ look good, I meant take the log out of your own eye. Clean up your house before telling me to sweep mine.
Christian Graus wrote:
Amusingly, I never claimed that. However, having spent a lot of time in the US does give me perspective and enough experience to comment on the ways Australia is better than the US
Let me remind you of the thread on US racism, and it's history of massacres. In that thread, I mentioned there was history of Aus on Aborigine murder, and you did not like me mentioning it, and very much denied it was anything other than Aborigine perpetrated lies.
Christian Graus wrote:
we are not so stupid as to let drug companies advertise on TV
Your companies are not the legal equivalents of humans. This is flat out stupid. How can a company take the 5th? Self incriminate? Have free political speech? What the hell were the US courts thinking? Oh no, there I go again, assuming they were thinking!:~
Opacity, the new Transparency.
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That must be because you have no freedom....
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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ragnaroknrol wrote:
If foreign troops were to attack, I would be able to defend my home with cunning, misdirection, and knowing when to wait and cause sabotage.
You crack me up. You would be shivering down in a basement waiting for just the right moment to beg for mercy from the troops and tell them you are loyal to China.
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
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Christian Graus wrote:
So you're against free markets and capitalism ?
No but people false advertising is illegal, and so is paying off medical experts and government officials to allow you to sell a food product that is deadly. That is not free market capitalism, it is mafia gangsterism.
Christian Graus wrote:
People choose to be influenced that way.
The new culture is created by social engineers and pushed by schools and the major media which is bought and paid for by the same people who buy politicians.
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
No but people false advertising is illegal, and so is paying off medical experts and government officials to allow you to sell a food product that is deadly. That is not free market capitalism, it is mafia gangsterism.
Actually that's exactly free market capitalism, anything limiting such things requires government intervention. If you don't believe me, look up the interesting history of patent medicine.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
The new culture is created by social engineers and pushed by schools and the major media which is bought and paid for by the same people who buy politicians
Really, it looks like a bunch of crap aimed at the lowest common denominator to make the most money possible, as one would expect of the free market.
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Hey, I'm not on CSS's side.
Stephen Hewitt wrote:
If a bunch of people who are carrying concealed weapons to "defend themselves" have an argument a fist fight often escalates into something much worse. This happens all the time.
Look up statistics on the use of legally concealed weapons for crimes, all crimes, not just fight escalating to fire fight. It does not happen "all the time". It almost never happens. Except in the Hollywood version of reality. You like a lot of action movies, Steve?
Stephen Hewitt wrote:
increases the chances of one getting into the wrong hands.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: The wrong hands already have them. It's getting them into the right hands that counts.
Opacity, the new Transparency.
RichardM1 wrote:
It does not happen "all the time". It almost never happens
Never happens. Surely having guns floating around when someone goes postal[^] is not a good thing. Only in action movies you you reckon? I find myself wondering what movies you watch.
Steve
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Christian Graus wrote:
So you're against free markets and capitalism ?
No but people false advertising is illegal, and so is paying off medical experts and government officials to allow you to sell a food product that is deadly. That is not free market capitalism, it is mafia gangsterism.
Christian Graus wrote:
People choose to be influenced that way.
The new culture is created by social engineers and pushed by schools and the major media which is bought and paid for by the same people who buy politicians.
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
No but people false advertising is illegal, and so is paying off medical experts and government officials to allow you to sell a food product that is deadly. That is not free market capitalism, it is mafia gangsterism.
Advertising Standard Authority they are the governing body for adverts here and have been known too pull adverts or help in the process of fining people. please research before post such nonsense.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
The new culture is created by social engineers and pushed by schools and the major media which is bought and paid for by the same people who buy politicians.
so on that statement we are all corrupt? if 99% of companies are as corrupt as you state please let me know how / where please and give proof!!
Thanks for taking the time, now go away and grow up and return in a newer, more polite and less shouty and ignorant form. - Dalek Dave
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He specifically said Chinese. I'm not sure how he would have come up with them. Must have been too many games of Command and Conquer Generals.
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RichardM1 wrote:
Look up statistics on the use of legally concealed weapons for crimes
But if you flood society with 'legal' guns, you make it easier for criminals to get them.
RichardM1 wrote:
The wrong hands already have them. It's getting them into the right hands that counts.
Do you have any statistics on the mythically common occurence of US gun owners shooting to defend their life or property ? If it does keep your crime rates lower, why are they so high still ? 'The wrong hands have them' is a furphy, as if flooding society makes no difference, because criminals can just pray to the gun fairy and get guns that way.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Christian Graus wrote:
because criminals can just pray to the gun fairy and get guns that way.
I put a tooth under my pillow.
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CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
No but people false advertising is illegal, and so is paying off medical experts and government officials to allow you to sell a food product that is deadly. That is not free market capitalism, it is mafia gangsterism.
Actually that's exactly free market capitalism, anything limiting such things requires government intervention. If you don't believe me, look up the interesting history of patent medicine.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
The new culture is created by social engineers and pushed by schools and the major media which is bought and paid for by the same people who buy politicians
Really, it looks like a bunch of crap aimed at the lowest common denominator to make the most money possible, as one would expect of the free market.
somehow he forgot that in a completely free market, there is no limitation to trade, not even for false advertising. "Let the buyer beware."