I am not my daughters friend
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Christian Graus wrote:
one of the reasons kids with just a mother tend to end up more uncontrolled, is that it takes a man in the house to step in and make sure that kids know how to treat their parents and be the bad guy.
FTFY :-D
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
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Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Caslen wrote:
botfriend
I don't like the sound of that ;)
Two heads are better than one.
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She won't even remember she said it a week from now.
.45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"The staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - J. Jystad, 2001John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
She won't even remember she said it a week 5 minutes from now.
FTFY
"WPF has many lovers. It's a veritable porn star!" - Josh Smith
As Braveheart once said, "You can take our freedom but you'll never take our Hobnobs!" - Martin Hughes.
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Haha - you think that is bad? Wait until she's 16 and is 'not your friend' because you won't let her botfriend 'sleepover' :)
Sleeping isn't the problem. I doubt they'd appreciate the two hefty bricks I'd be swinging about groin height though.
"WPF has many lovers. It's a veritable porn star!" - Josh Smith
As Braveheart once said, "You can take our freedom but you'll never take our Hobnobs!" - Martin Hughes.
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Phil Martin... wrote:
I knew something like that would happen eventually, but I didn't think it would happen this young, and I certainly didn't expect it to feel like she pulled my heart out and ripped it up with her cute little hands.
Erm, I think you're looking at this from completely the wrong perspective. First of all, your 3 year old is not exactly capable of anything but expressing, as best as she can, her own joys and pains. So for you to react that she "pulled my heart out..." is not just unmanly, it's rather ridiculous. Imagine giving a three year old such power over your feelings! Instead, be the parent, the husband, and the man of the house by looking at what your daughter is expressing. Clearly she needs something and is simply choosing a strategy that you and your wife don't like: talking rudely and telling mom what to do. So what? What's the underlying feeling that she's expressing? What does she need, and how can you give her different strategies for expressing that need? Obviously, your daughter has feelings and needs, and so do you and your wife. It isn't so much that your needs are in conflict, but obviously the strategies are in conflict. So get in touch with your daughter's feelings and figure out what strategies work for the whole family. That's what "being the man of the house" means, IMHO. [edit]Reading through the other "dialogs", it seems like you already know all this. :) [/edit] Marc
Thanks for the responses Marc, always food for thought, and everyone especially me needs the reminders. And yes, as your final comment said, I am aware of most of what you said, but I do like discussing it anyway. It keeps me fresh.
Marc Clifton wrote:
Erm, I think you're looking at this from completely the wrong perspective.
Really? I doubt the very first time any father hears that, or a variant of it, it would be paired with anything except hurt. It wears off, because our intellect tells us that it is the right thing to do, but that does nothing to diminish the very initial feeling.
Marc Clifton wrote:
First of all, your 3 year old is not exactly capable of anything but expressing, as best as she can, her own joys and pains. So for you to react that she "pulled my heart out..." is not just unmanly, it's rather ridiculous. Imagine giving a three year old such power over your feelings!
I'm not saying she pulled my heart out, but it FELT like she pulled my heart out. Two very, VERY different things. I did not, and probably never will share this with her, she doesn't need to hear it. I did not react to it in any way. I recognised it immediately for what it was, a childish expression of her feelings and frustrations, but my feelings were still there, they were just not relevant at the time. Thats the difference between me and her, I get to choose how my feelings come out. I just used the CP lounge as the place to go "Dear diary, I had a crap moment today when for the first time....."
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Phil Martin... wrote:
I know I'm not her friend, but a parent, but it still sucked so much hearing it.
Yeah, I hear you. I guess what I'm saying is, if you're strong about it and you don't let your kids manipulate you, in time, while they might still try it on, they understand on some level the stability and the love that is expressed by you sticking to the principles you want to impart. I am very close to my daughter, so it's not hurt our relationship at all that when I say 'no', I mean it and I don't back down, and when she talks to us in ways that are unacceptable, I make sure she knows about it.
Phil Martin... wrote:
I think if she was 13 and said that, it would have been way way way easier. Right now as a 3 year old, she has a fairly straight forward world view - just like she should. Anyone who is nice to her is her friend, and anyone who is mean is not her friend.
Yeah, but her definition is also more pliable. You can be her friend right now, and not in a minute, then 5 minutes later, be her friend again. Hannah won't say that anymore, she says 'you don't love me'. But, I know that she knows I do.
Phil Martin... wrote:
Just having your actions perceived as mean isn't the funnest experience in the world, because you know it was the right thing to do.
Being a good parent is tough at times, that's why a lot of people suck at it, I guess. In the long term, it's worth the effort, and I'm sure you know that. It's just not great in the short term having to deal with it. I learned early not to make idle threats, b/c there were times I tried to stop the kids from doing something by proscribing a punishment that was out of scale to the action, and I felt bad when I had no choice but to carry through. My wife asked me early on in our marriage when I thought we'd be ready to have kids, and my answer was 'when they leave home'. Being a parent is also a learning experience, it's a learn on the job position.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Christian Graus wrote:
I learned early not to make idle threats, b/c there were times I tried to stop the kids from doing something by proscribing a punishment that was out of scale to the action, and I felt bad when I had no choice but to carry through.
I am so with you there. The missus is a school teacher, and she drilled this into me early on - don't warn with a consequence unless you can follow through with it. The little kiddies don't make it easy do they? :) Right now we're in a battle of wills about bed time and staying in her room. We'll find the balance eventually. We have this white child proof door handle thing which makes it show she can't open her own door. If she does what she is supposed to and only come out of he room to go to the toilet, then all is well. If she comes out for any other reason, the child lock goes on, resulting in much wailing and gnashing of teeth. If at any point we are inconsistent and forget to put it on, or take it off because she cried that extra bit hard, it takes a week of retraining.
Christian Graus wrote:
Yeah, but her definition is also more pliable. You can be her friend right now, and not in a minute, then 5 minutes later, be her friend again. Hannah won't say that anymore, she says 'you don't love me'. But, I know that she knows I do.
Yeah, exactly, and that is why the sadness of it happening only lasts 10 minutes or so. It was just the tangible realisation that they will indeed eventually say "I hate you" or something like that to be in the future, and that will be an un-fun day.
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Haha - you think that is bad? Wait until she's 16 and is 'not your friend' because you won't let her botfriend 'sleepover' :)
Hahah, yeah. I think that is the real source of my discomfort. This was the _first_ time. All it can do is escalate from here. "You don't love me, you haven't bought bought me the iPhone 7.0" "I hate you, all my friends are allowed to stay out late at night wearing skimpy outfits!" "You can't talk to me anymore, I'm 15 and know everything" All those fun times to look forward to :D
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Christian Graus wrote:
I learned early not to make idle threats, b/c there were times I tried to stop the kids from doing something by proscribing a punishment that was out of scale to the action, and I felt bad when I had no choice but to carry through.
I am so with you there. The missus is a school teacher, and she drilled this into me early on - don't warn with a consequence unless you can follow through with it. The little kiddies don't make it easy do they? :) Right now we're in a battle of wills about bed time and staying in her room. We'll find the balance eventually. We have this white child proof door handle thing which makes it show she can't open her own door. If she does what she is supposed to and only come out of he room to go to the toilet, then all is well. If she comes out for any other reason, the child lock goes on, resulting in much wailing and gnashing of teeth. If at any point we are inconsistent and forget to put it on, or take it off because she cried that extra bit hard, it takes a week of retraining.
Christian Graus wrote:
Yeah, but her definition is also more pliable. You can be her friend right now, and not in a minute, then 5 minutes later, be her friend again. Hannah won't say that anymore, she says 'you don't love me'. But, I know that she knows I do.
Yeah, exactly, and that is why the sadness of it happening only lasts 10 minutes or so. It was just the tangible realisation that they will indeed eventually say "I hate you" or something like that to be in the future, and that will be an un-fun day.
Phil Martin... wrote:
The little kiddies don't make it easy do they?
No, it's not easy, but it sounds like you have an expert in your corner, which has to help.
Phil Martin... wrote:
Right now we're in a battle of wills about bed time and staying in her room.
Oh, we still have that.
Phil Martin... wrote:
If at any point we are inconsistent and forget to put it on, or take it off because she cried that extra bit hard, it takes a week of retraining.
Exactly. If you're consistent for long enough, you'll probably be able to take away the device and she'll still stay in her room.
Phil Martin... wrote:
It was just the tangible realisation that they will indeed eventually say "I hate you" or something like that to be in the future, and that will be an un-fun day.
I let my son see how much it upset me when he said 'I just want you to spend time with me', and he said it for months. It lost it's edge, but any sign of weakness is remembered, for sure.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Hahah, yeah. I think that is the real source of my discomfort. This was the _first_ time. All it can do is escalate from here. "You don't love me, you haven't bought bought me the iPhone 7.0" "I hate you, all my friends are allowed to stay out late at night wearing skimpy outfits!" "You can't talk to me anymore, I'm 15 and know everything" All those fun times to look forward to :D
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Hahah, yeah. I think that is the real source of my discomfort. This was the _first_ time. All it can do is escalate from here. "You don't love me, you haven't bought bought me the iPhone 7.0" "I hate you, all my friends are allowed to stay out late at night wearing skimpy outfits!" "You can't talk to me anymore, I'm 15 and know everything" All those fun times to look forward to :D
ROTFL !!! It's exactly like that. My daughter started to ask for a phone at 7 or so. "All my friends have phones" "Well, call their parents and see if they will take you in" "Katie has a TV in her room" "It's not my fault that her mother is a retard" and so on.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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But if your wife is not backing you up, then you're going to have more and more issues with time. My daughter is 13, and we get along great. She's emailed me the most while I've been in the US again. However, from time to time, I remind her that my job is NOT to be her friend, it's to prepare her for life. If we can be friends, I'd like that. If she makes me choose between being a friend and being a parent, I choose the parent option, every time. I'm not suggesting your 3 year old can grasp that, but I do think it's very important for you to step in as you have done, I still have to come flying out of my room from time to time to yell 'don't even THINK of talking to your mother like that'. In my experience and observation, one of the reasons kids with just a mother tend to end up more uncontrolled, is that it takes a man in the house to step in and make sure that kids know how to treat their parents.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Christian Graus wrote:
However, from time to time, I remind her that my job is NOT to be her friend...
Surprisingly, most parents haven't grasped that (yet).
"One man's wage rise is another man's price increase." - Harold Wilson
"Fireproof doesn't mean the fire will never come. It means when the fire comes that you will be able to withstand it." - Michael Simmons
"Man who follows car will be exhausted." - Confucius
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Hahah, yeah. I think that is the real source of my discomfort. This was the _first_ time. All it can do is escalate from here. "You don't love me, you haven't bought bought me the iPhone 7.0" "I hate you, all my friends are allowed to stay out late at night wearing skimpy outfits!" "You can't talk to me anymore, I'm 15 and know everything" All those fun times to look forward to :D
Phil Martin... wrote:
"You can't talk to me anymore, I'm 12 15 and know everything"
FTFY :)
My .NET Business Application Framework My Younger Son & His "PET"
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Thanks for the responses Marc, always food for thought, and everyone especially me needs the reminders. And yes, as your final comment said, I am aware of most of what you said, but I do like discussing it anyway. It keeps me fresh.
Marc Clifton wrote:
Erm, I think you're looking at this from completely the wrong perspective.
Really? I doubt the very first time any father hears that, or a variant of it, it would be paired with anything except hurt. It wears off, because our intellect tells us that it is the right thing to do, but that does nothing to diminish the very initial feeling.
Marc Clifton wrote:
First of all, your 3 year old is not exactly capable of anything but expressing, as best as she can, her own joys and pains. So for you to react that she "pulled my heart out..." is not just unmanly, it's rather ridiculous. Imagine giving a three year old such power over your feelings!
I'm not saying she pulled my heart out, but it FELT like she pulled my heart out. Two very, VERY different things. I did not, and probably never will share this with her, she doesn't need to hear it. I did not react to it in any way. I recognised it immediately for what it was, a childish expression of her feelings and frustrations, but my feelings were still there, they were just not relevant at the time. Thats the difference between me and her, I get to choose how my feelings come out. I just used the CP lounge as the place to go "Dear diary, I had a crap moment today when for the first time....."
Phil Martin... wrote:
I just used the CP lounge as the place to go "Dear diary, I had a crap moment today when for the first time....."
If you haven't noticed before this place craps all over you for talking about things like this. Christian and a few others may not but by and large most do.
That's called seagull management (or sometimes pigeon management)... Fly in, flap your arms and squawk a lot, crap all over everything and fly out again... by _Damian S_
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Haha - you think that is bad? Wait until she's 16 and is 'not your friend' because you won't let her botfriend 'sleepover' :)
Caslen wrote:
you won't let her botfriend 'sleepover' Smile
That's just stupid and crazy. Just take pleasure in making her dating life hell for crap like that. Have her watch some birthing videos and volunteer some place that involves expecting mothers. My science teacher in high school did that and it certainly had an effect on the girls in biology class. I thought it was funny considering they all came from farms. Most girls at that age have no idea of the pain, etc that it requires them to go through. She either does it safely and or waits. Those are the two practical options. Show her the consequences of being stupid and unprepared. I'm not very sympathetic of teenage pregnancy since at that age they should know how the plumbing works and what can happen. A good grounding in reality seems to cure them of it. For guys a discussion of money and child support might be the way to get them to get it. Just suggestions.
That's called seagull management (or sometimes pigeon management)... Fly in, flap your arms and squawk a lot, crap all over everything and fly out again... by _Damian S_
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Hahah, yeah. I think that is the real source of my discomfort. This was the _first_ time. All it can do is escalate from here. "You don't love me, you haven't bought bought me the iPhone 7.0" "I hate you, all my friends are allowed to stay out late at night wearing skimpy outfits!" "You can't talk to me anymore, I'm 15 and know everything" All those fun times to look forward to :D
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I just spent 10 minutes explaining to my 3 year old daughter in no uncertain terms that she is not to talk to her Mum rudely or tell her what to do. The response was quite a lengthy tear session in the middle of which she looked straight at me and said "You are NOT my friend daddy. Not my friend. You don't get to talk to me. Mummy is my friend". I knew something like that would happen eventually, but I didn't think it would happen this young, and I certainly didn't expect it to feel like she pulled my heart out and ripped it up with her cute little hands. Sigh. :sigh: Sometimes it really truly sucks being the man of the house.
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Phil Martin... wrote:
I just used the CP lounge as the place to go "Dear diary, I had a crap moment today when for the first time....."
If you haven't noticed before this place craps all over you for talking about things like this. Christian and a few others may not but by and large most do.
That's called seagull management (or sometimes pigeon management)... Fly in, flap your arms and squawk a lot, crap all over everything and fly out again... by _Damian S_
I've been around for... a while :) If my skin isn't think enough to handle a few words from a bunch of programmers, I got no chance as a parent :P
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Caslen wrote:
you won't let her botfriend 'sleepover' Smile
That's just stupid and crazy. Just take pleasure in making her dating life hell for crap like that. Have her watch some birthing videos and volunteer some place that involves expecting mothers. My science teacher in high school did that and it certainly had an effect on the girls in biology class. I thought it was funny considering they all came from farms. Most girls at that age have no idea of the pain, etc that it requires them to go through. She either does it safely and or waits. Those are the two practical options. Show her the consequences of being stupid and unprepared. I'm not very sympathetic of teenage pregnancy since at that age they should know how the plumbing works and what can happen. A good grounding in reality seems to cure them of it. For guys a discussion of money and child support might be the way to get them to get it. Just suggestions.
That's called seagull management (or sometimes pigeon management)... Fly in, flap your arms and squawk a lot, crap all over everything and fly out again... by _Damian S_
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Christian Graus wrote:
I learned early not to make idle threats, b/c there were times I tried to stop the kids from doing something by proscribing a punishment that was out of scale to the action, and I felt bad when I had no choice but to carry through.
I am so with you there. The missus is a school teacher, and she drilled this into me early on - don't warn with a consequence unless you can follow through with it. The little kiddies don't make it easy do they? :) Right now we're in a battle of wills about bed time and staying in her room. We'll find the balance eventually. We have this white child proof door handle thing which makes it show she can't open her own door. If she does what she is supposed to and only come out of he room to go to the toilet, then all is well. If she comes out for any other reason, the child lock goes on, resulting in much wailing and gnashing of teeth. If at any point we are inconsistent and forget to put it on, or take it off because she cried that extra bit hard, it takes a week of retraining.
Christian Graus wrote:
Yeah, but her definition is also more pliable. You can be her friend right now, and not in a minute, then 5 minutes later, be her friend again. Hannah won't say that anymore, she says 'you don't love me'. But, I know that she knows I do.
Yeah, exactly, and that is why the sadness of it happening only lasts 10 minutes or so. It was just the tangible realisation that they will indeed eventually say "I hate you" or something like that to be in the future, and that will be an un-fun day.
Phil Martin... wrote:
We have this white child proof door handle thing which makes it show she can't open her own door. If she does what she is supposed to and only come out of he room to go to the toilet, then all is well. If she comes out for any other reason, the child lock goes on, resulting in much wailing and gnashing of teeth.
This makes me cringe. What happens if there's a fire between where you are and her bedroom? Alarm the door if you must so she can't sneak out; but don't trap her with no way to escape on her own in an emergency.
3x12=36 2x12=24 1x12=12 0x12=18
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Caslen wrote:
botfriend
I don't like the sound of that ;)
Two heads are better than one.
