Single mothers
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That might not be good Populations in the west Starting to decline We don't need less kids Just need them from smarter folks Those that can support. Tricky issue, though Not so nice to penalize People will complain
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
At home, we have enclaves of fourth generation unemployed people, raising kids in poverty, whose best and most viable life option is to have a kid as early as possible ( I would guess median age at 15 ), so they get a baby bonus payment ( more money that their family ever sees in one place otherwise ) and a pension for life. Then I see them on TV, saying things like 'raising a child is not easy, we don't live a life of luxury'. No, you don't. But, that doesn't mean I should be paying for your life, not when you chose it. Now, IVF is taxpayer funded to people who want a kid without sex ( lesbians being the obvious one ). What the hell is going on ? And, the other issue is, the kids are rarely properly raised, and tend to turn out like CSS. So, there is no upside for society.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
I would like to know how much of your tax money goes to providing these people with a very basic level of existence compared to: 1) Spending on pointless GW research. 2) (In the EUs case) pumping millions into Palestine. 3) Pumping milliosn into Kazakhstan (yes the EU does thie, god knows why) 4) Pumping milions into god knows whatever countries we do for god kows what reason. 5) Abuse by politicians. EU workers dont pay income tax, yet get massive benefits. 6) The same for the UN. 7) Pointless government programs that come to nothing. 8) Pointless QUANGOS and so on. 9) General waste and overstaffing in public bodies.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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Christian Graus wrote:
the kids are rarely properly raised, and tend to turn out like CSS
Perhaps your country's education system could do with an overhaul.
Christian Graus wrote:
'raising a child is not easy, we don't live a life of luxury'
That is universal. You could be a millionaire and say (and mean) the same thing. Poverty makes it that much harder. And education could play a big role there, so does your country's education system need an overhaul?
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
Poverty makes it that much harder
At least you get to spend time with your kids. Which currently is piissing me off because I wm working away on a 6 month contract and only back every two weekends. To be unemployed, and to be able to spend all that time playing guitar and doing stuff with the family and friends. Bloody luxury! :mad: ;P :)
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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I would like to know how much of your tax money goes to providing these people with a very basic level of existence compared to: 1) Spending on pointless GW research. 2) (In the EUs case) pumping millions into Palestine. 3) Pumping milliosn into Kazakhstan (yes the EU does thie, god knows why) 4) Pumping milions into god knows whatever countries we do for god kows what reason. 5) Abuse by politicians. EU workers dont pay income tax, yet get massive benefits. 6) The same for the UN. 7) Pointless government programs that come to nothing. 8) Pointless QUANGOS and so on. 9) General waste and overstaffing in public bodies.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
fat_boy wrote:
I would like to know how much of your tax money goes to providing these people with a very basic level of existence compared to:
I've already said : 30%. So, that doesn't leave much in comparison for your list of more than 2 items.
fat_boy wrote:
Spending on pointless GW research.
Well, it's your opinion that research is pointless. At a minimum, the fact that most people who pay the taxes feel otherwise, means they have a right to have their money put there
fat_boy wrote:
(In the EUs case) pumping millions into Palestine.
While the US pumps it in to Israel ?
fat_boy wrote:
Pumping milliosn into Kazakhstan (yes the EU does thie, god knows why)
I thought they had excess deposits of potassium, do they need aid ? :P
fat_boy wrote:
Pumping milions into god knows whatever countries we do for god kows what reason.
Well, I think foreign aid is a good thing, if it's spent wisely. I do think that the best solution is for it to happen through the tax cuts we give to individuals who give money to aid. That way, the levels of spending represent the will of the people.
fat_boy wrote:
- Abuse by politicians. EU workers dont pay income tax, yet get massive benefits. 6) The same for the UN. 7) Pointless government programs that come to nothing. 8) Pointless QUANGOS and so on. 9) General waste and overstaffing in public bodies.
Well, this is all one group, really. I wonder that, too. But, the fact that waste exists, doesn't mean we shouldn't try to cut it where we can, and the societal cost of what I'm talking about goes well beyond money.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Richard A. Abbott wrote:
Poverty makes it that much harder
At least you get to spend time with your kids. Which currently is piissing me off because I wm working away on a 6 month contract and only back every two weekends. To be unemployed, and to be able to spend all that time playing guitar and doing stuff with the family and friends. Bloody luxury! :mad: ;P :)
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
fat_boy wrote:
To be unemployed, and to be able to spend all that time playing guitar and doing stuff with the family and friends. Bloody luxury! Mad Poke tongue Smile
ROTFL !!! The reality, of course, is that the poor have LESS time for their kids, because they are busy trying to make ends meet. Or, in the case of the bogans I speak of, they have plenty of time, but spend it watching TV and let their kids raise themselves. I see kids under 10 out well after dark, walking the streets, smoking, swearing at cars, etc, when I have to go to the store that is sadly in THAT neighbourhood.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Well, he's not posting enough, and it's a slow day at work, so I'm livening things up... Of course, people seem too afraid to reply, so maybe it's counterproductive.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)Ian Shlasko wrote:
I'm livening things up...
Well, its not working. I really dont know how posting Zenesque, which arent Zen really because they arent reality breaking enough, is lively. Try putting some life into your poetry, see it it makes a difference.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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Richard A. Abbott wrote:
Perhaps your country's education system could do with an overhaul.
Our issue is not the school system as a whole, it's that we've created enclaves of unemployable people, and so the schools in those areas have too many problem kids, to cope. Plus, the kids have so many issues, the schools focus on feeding and clothing kids ( the staff pay for this ), and teaching basic hygiene, etc, all the stuff that kids in other areas learn from their parents. We have family who work in the local school, so I know this first hand.
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
And education could play a big role there, so does your country's education system need an overhaul?
No amount of education will change where we place incentives. The issue is that these girls rightly see breeding as the best option their life offers.
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
Poverty makes it that much harder.
No doubt. I don't hate the girls for taking the best option they are offered, I hate the society that decides to weigh things in that direction. When there was a social stigma, when your parents had to pay or you lost your baby, girls knew how to keep their legs together or take a pill once a day.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Christian Graus wrote:
it's that we've created enclaves of unemployable people
That is also true in Britain where in some towns unemployment is approaching 10% and that excludes those who, for one reason or another, are unable to register themselves as unemployed. If the unemployed were offered education and training, eventually, it should help with their employment prospects and their own sense of self worth.
Christian Graus wrote:
No amount of education will change where we place incentives.
Maybe your country's incentives are poorly targeted?
Christian Graus wrote:
When there was a social stigma, when your parents had to pay or you lost your baby, girls knew how to keep their legs together or take a pill once a day.
The pre 1960's are history.
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Richard A. Abbott wrote:
Poverty makes it that much harder
At least you get to spend time with your kids. Which currently is piissing me off because I wm working away on a 6 month contract and only back every two weekends. To be unemployed, and to be able to spend all that time playing guitar and doing stuff with the family and friends. Bloody luxury! :mad: ;P :)
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
-
fat_boy wrote:
I would like to know how much of your tax money goes to providing these people with a very basic level of existence compared to:
I've already said : 30%. So, that doesn't leave much in comparison for your list of more than 2 items.
fat_boy wrote:
Spending on pointless GW research.
Well, it's your opinion that research is pointless. At a minimum, the fact that most people who pay the taxes feel otherwise, means they have a right to have their money put there
fat_boy wrote:
(In the EUs case) pumping millions into Palestine.
While the US pumps it in to Israel ?
fat_boy wrote:
Pumping milliosn into Kazakhstan (yes the EU does thie, god knows why)
I thought they had excess deposits of potassium, do they need aid ? :P
fat_boy wrote:
Pumping milions into god knows whatever countries we do for god kows what reason.
Well, I think foreign aid is a good thing, if it's spent wisely. I do think that the best solution is for it to happen through the tax cuts we give to individuals who give money to aid. That way, the levels of spending represent the will of the people.
fat_boy wrote:
- Abuse by politicians. EU workers dont pay income tax, yet get massive benefits. 6) The same for the UN. 7) Pointless government programs that come to nothing. 8) Pointless QUANGOS and so on. 9) General waste and overstaffing in public bodies.
Well, this is all one group, really. I wonder that, too. But, the fact that waste exists, doesn't mean we shouldn't try to cut it where we can, and the societal cost of what I'm talking about goes well beyond money.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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fat_boy wrote:
To be unemployed, and to be able to spend all that time playing guitar
You think the unemployed can afford guitars? Just how much money do you think that the unemployed can draw in benefits?
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
You think the unemployed can afford guitars?
Yeah, they nick them.
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
Just how much money do you think that the unemployed can draw in benefits?
Well, in the UK it must be around 80 a week now I guess.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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Richard A. Abbott wrote:
You think the unemployed can afford guitars?
Yeah, they nick them.
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
Just how much money do you think that the unemployed can draw in benefits?
Well, in the UK it must be around 80 a week now I guess.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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Richard A. Abbott wrote:
You think the unemployed can afford guitars?
Yeah, they nick them.
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
Just how much money do you think that the unemployed can draw in benefits?
Well, in the UK it must be around 80 a week now I guess.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
fat_boy wrote:
Yeah, they nick them.
Because every unemployed person is automatically a thief.
If I have accidentally said something witty, smart, or correct, it is purely by mistake and I apologize for it.
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Ian Shlasko wrote:
I'm livening things up...
Well, its not working. I really dont know how posting Zenesque, which arent Zen really because they arent reality breaking enough, is lively. Try putting some life into your poetry, see it it makes a difference.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
fat_boy wrote:
I really dont know how posting Zenesque, which arent Zen really because they arent reality breaking enough, is lively.
As opposed to the same diatribes, generalizations, and rampant stupidity is lively?
If I have accidentally said something witty, smart, or correct, it is purely by mistake and I apologize for it.
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Ian Shlasko wrote:
I'm livening things up...
Well, its not working. I really dont know how posting Zenesque, which arent Zen really because they arent reality breaking enough, is lively. Try putting some life into your poetry, see it it makes a difference.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
"Zenesque?" They're just haikus... Ya know, 5-7-5?
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
fat_boy wrote:
I really dont know how posting Zenesque, which arent Zen really because they arent reality breaking enough, is lively.
As opposed to the same diatribes, generalizations, and rampant stupidity is lively?
If I have accidentally said something witty, smart, or correct, it is purely by mistake and I apologize for it.
ragnaroknrol wrote:
As opposed to the same diatribes, generalizations, and rampant stupidity is lively?
What you mean is: "As opposed to the same diatribes, generalizations, and rampant stupidity. Are they lively?" Anyway, yes, it is difficult keeping up the interest and enthusiasm required by CPs more interesting forums.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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"Zenesque?" They're just haikus... Ya know, 5-7-5?
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)The haiku, the three line stanza, is a classic Bhuddist poem whose incompleteness and elusive meaning i designed to break the sense of reality that binds us to the earth and therefore reincrnation. Zen is a Japonese form of Bhuddism. But surely you know this?
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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30%!? Are you sure!? You really think 30% of the countries revenue goes on social security excluding health care?
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
I googled and it looks like it's 20%. Some countries ARE at 30%, however.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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The haiku, the three line stanza, is a classic Bhuddist poem whose incompleteness and elusive meaning i designed to break the sense of reality that binds us to the earth and therefore reincrnation. Zen is a Japonese form of Bhuddism. But surely you know this?
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
Nope, never heard that before in my life. To me, a haiku is a funny little poem with a specific number of syllables. Other than that, everything is negotiable.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
At home, we have enclaves of fourth generation unemployed people, raising kids in poverty, whose best and most viable life option is to have a kid as early as possible ( I would guess median age at 15 ), so they get a baby bonus payment ( more money that their family ever sees in one place otherwise ) and a pension for life. Then I see them on TV, saying things like 'raising a child is not easy, we don't live a life of luxury'. No, you don't. But, that doesn't mean I should be paying for your life, not when you chose it. Now, IVF is taxpayer funded to people who want a kid without sex ( lesbians being the obvious one ). What the hell is going on ? And, the other issue is, the kids are rarely properly raised, and tend to turn out like CSS. So, there is no upside for society.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
You are not paying for their life. You are paying for the hope that the kids will have a real one. If we could get good fosters, I'd say take them and give them to fosters, and charge the parents the cost. I don't think we have enough fosters, as it is, and this would make it worse, until the 'parents' start figuring out they can be fosters, too. Then A has more kids for B to foster, and vise versa. There is no system that can not be gamed.
Opacity, the new Transparency.