My Ignorance
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The US is attempting to take over Australia by flooding us with US popular culture. :P Look up words like 'Castro' and 'Iran-Contra' in google, should give you heaps of info. Or Vietnam combined with the name of the puppet ruler the US set up in the south, which escapes me. But be sure to also look up the Marshall Plan and to realise that while the US has done a lot of bad, it has done a lot of good also. The bad that it does is usually well intentioned, which is no excuse, but the point, certainly of my comments, is to provide balance, and the fact is that while the US has little regard for the wishes of other countries, it's also true that the intention is generally good, and sometimes a LOT of good is done by the USA. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 Hey, at least Logo had, at it's inception, a mechanical turtle. VB has always lacked even that... - Shog9 04-09-2002 During last 10 years, with invention of VB and similar programming environments, every ill-educated moron became able to develop software. - Alex E. - 12-Sept-2002
We're a well-meaning lot of bumblers, aren't we?:-) "When in danger, fear, or doubt, run in circles, scream and shout!" - Lorelei and Lapis Lazuli Long
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I must admit to my general ignorance in US foreign policy. Visiting CP over the past few months has indeed opened my eyes to many things which I'm desperately trying to learn about and digest. It has become very apparent that nearly everyone has an opinion of the US, and watches our moves with a suspicious eye. In trying to understand this situation better, and develop my own more educated views, I'd like to ask some help. Not only would it take forever for me to Google about looking for tidbits, but I'd like some real feedback from people. So I would be extremely grateful if CPians could relate information to me regarding US policy in their own country. Anything is fair game, good or bad. Replying here is fine, or you can send it personally to brian.welsch@greenvillearea.net[^] Thanks for your help. BW "I'm coming with you! I got you fired, it's the least I can do. Well, the least I could do is absolutely nothing, but I'll go you one better and come along!" - Homer J. Simpson
You realize, I suppose, that the news we get here is badly slanted? We not only have no idea what our leaders are doing in the world on our behalf, but we also get no news about what the rest of the world thinks of it. If you're like most people here, you see only what the Liberal media want you to see. You have to work a bit harder to see the whole story. I think I can safely say that 99.5% don't bother, but instead base their opinions on the liberal pap handed out by CNN or their equivalent local newsfeed. "When in danger, fear, or doubt, run in circles, scream and shout!" - Lorelei and Lapis Lazuli Long
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You realize, I suppose, that the news we get here is badly slanted? We not only have no idea what our leaders are doing in the world on our behalf, but we also get no news about what the rest of the world thinks of it. If you're like most people here, you see only what the Liberal media want you to see. You have to work a bit harder to see the whole story. I think I can safely say that 99.5% don't bother, but instead base their opinions on the liberal pap handed out by CNN or their equivalent local newsfeed. "When in danger, fear, or doubt, run in circles, scream and shout!" - Lorelei and Lapis Lazuli Long
Roger Wright wrote: We not only have no idea what our leaders are doing in the world on our behalf, but we also get no news about what the rest of the world thinks of it That struck me as being very much the same concept of being the one in a group of 'friends' that the others always talk about when not around but never mention a thing to about the faults they see when this person is present (hope that makes sense). I find it hard to actually find out whats going on. The media (at least the US media) is of little use when you are actually trying to get information and form an opinion. When I was in college, on of my professor gave everyone in the class a video tape of 1/2 hour news cast and the assignment was to write a brief summary of what the "news" was. I was shocked at how deceptive media persons can be in relating a story. It would take far to much effort on my part to explain exactly what that means but the gist of it is that you really have to pay very close attention to what is actually stated as fact, and what is comentary (which is a surpisingly large percentage). If you ever find yourself traveling out of country, try and spend a little time watching the local news (closed captioning in english is good for this). I'm gonna be heading off before too much longer... six days drifting around on the ocean in the tropics soak'n up the sun and whatever else I can find to do on the ship. -Peace Mel --------------------------------------------- The greenest grass is NOT on the other side of the fence, its the grass you take care of. Have you watered your lawn lately? - Just remember when you point a finger at someone else, you are only one finger away from making a fist to hit them with! If they don't get the basic research and learning skills down then they'll end up having a very hard life (Either that or they'll become managers) - Micheal P Butler <
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We're a well-meaning lot of bumblers, aren't we?:-) "When in danger, fear, or doubt, run in circles, scream and shout!" - Lorelei and Lapis Lazuli Long
Roger Wright wrote: We're a well-meaning lot of bumblers, aren't we? Well, I dislike saying 'we', because I don't think US government policy is always a reflection of US popular opinion, but by and large, I'd say yes. Of course some thing have been done solely out of self interest, but again, the point is that there is good and bad. The US is simply powerful enough that both the good AND bad are magnified compared to, say, the good and bad that is done by the government of Yemen, or PNG. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 Hey, at least Logo had, at it's inception, a mechanical turtle. VB has always lacked even that... - Shog9 04-09-2002 During last 10 years, with invention of VB and similar programming environments, every ill-educated moron became able to develop software. - Alex E. - 12-Sept-2002
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I must admit to my general ignorance in US foreign policy. Visiting CP over the past few months has indeed opened my eyes to many things which I'm desperately trying to learn about and digest. It has become very apparent that nearly everyone has an opinion of the US, and watches our moves with a suspicious eye. In trying to understand this situation better, and develop my own more educated views, I'd like to ask some help. Not only would it take forever for me to Google about looking for tidbits, but I'd like some real feedback from people. So I would be extremely grateful if CPians could relate information to me regarding US policy in their own country. Anything is fair game, good or bad. Replying here is fine, or you can send it personally to brian.welsch@greenvillearea.net[^] Thanks for your help. BW "I'm coming with you! I got you fired, it's the least I can do. Well, the least I could do is absolutely nothing, but I'll go you one better and come along!" - Homer J. Simpson
The US has been making grumblings about having a freetrade agreement with NZ. Currently as per the APEC agreement NZ has ZERO tariffs etc on any US imports or any other country. As to the agreement in 2010 the APEC area is meant to be a total freetrade area. Fact I think this is highly unlikely. My stupid government listens to the US grumblings and sucks up to the US trying to tie military security into trade. I don't think the US is at fault with this, but in a couple of years you guy's will be blamed for it, for sure when it all falls apart. The truth is the US is unlikely to be able to deliver bilateral freetrade agreements outside of North America due to the internal lobby groups and interests. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
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You realize, I suppose, that the news we get here is badly slanted? We not only have no idea what our leaders are doing in the world on our behalf, but we also get no news about what the rest of the world thinks of it. If you're like most people here, you see only what the Liberal media want you to see. You have to work a bit harder to see the whole story. I think I can safely say that 99.5% don't bother, but instead base their opinions on the liberal pap handed out by CNN or their equivalent local newsfeed. "When in danger, fear, or doubt, run in circles, scream and shout!" - Lorelei and Lapis Lazuli Long
I guess when some jerks burn a US flag in a crud country it can make news in the US. But most of the places I have visited in the world seem amblivient to the USA. However unfortunatly there own media slants stuff bad against the USA. I was in Central America when the LA riots broke out, and the news media made it appear the racist white Americans had oppressed the blacks to the point of explosion. No mention was made of the Korean issue at the time. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
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You realize, I suppose, that the news we get here is badly slanted? We not only have no idea what our leaders are doing in the world on our behalf, but we also get no news about what the rest of the world thinks of it. If you're like most people here, you see only what the Liberal media want you to see. You have to work a bit harder to see the whole story. I think I can safely say that 99.5% don't bother, but instead base their opinions on the liberal pap handed out by CNN or their equivalent local newsfeed. "When in danger, fear, or doubt, run in circles, scream and shout!" - Lorelei and Lapis Lazuli Long
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I must admit to my general ignorance in US foreign policy. Visiting CP over the past few months has indeed opened my eyes to many things which I'm desperately trying to learn about and digest. It has become very apparent that nearly everyone has an opinion of the US, and watches our moves with a suspicious eye. In trying to understand this situation better, and develop my own more educated views, I'd like to ask some help. Not only would it take forever for me to Google about looking for tidbits, but I'd like some real feedback from people. So I would be extremely grateful if CPians could relate information to me regarding US policy in their own country. Anything is fair game, good or bad. Replying here is fine, or you can send it personally to brian.welsch@greenvillearea.net[^] Thanks for your help. BW "I'm coming with you! I got you fired, it's the least I can do. Well, the least I could do is absolutely nothing, but I'll go you one better and come along!" - Homer J. Simpson
brianwelsch wrote: It has become very apparent that nearly everyone has an opinion of the US, and watches our moves with a suspicious eye. In trying to understand this situation better, and develop my own more educated views, I'd like to ask some help. It is very hard to really put a finger on what pisses us off about the US. I can never state actual events or facts which condem the US, because there aren't that many and the ones that are there are not really the root of the problem (they are like skirmishes in a far off land, nothing to do with the evil in the capital.) This little insight actually makes the situation worse because it frustrates us no end. We want to point and say "There! That is what you did wrong, now repent you rich bastards!", but we can't. :) So I got to thinking that the US to us is like a wolf. It does not have to tear off my arm before I realise it is dangerous, it just has to smile and I know that it could tear my arm off. The US could invade SA and it could make my life a living hell. It could, it most likely won't, but it could. And there is nobody else around who could stop the US. When the US decides on something, nobody can stop them. At least in the whole cold war era there were two balancing super powers of differing ideals. So the US could never just do what it pleased and neither could the USSR. Each knew that if it tried to bulldoze, it would come up against the other super power. The rest of the world then felt that neither would do anything because you fell on either side of the dividing line and so were theoretically protected. So the rest of the world kept an eye on the fragile stand-off, but generally carried on with life. Now there is no opposition. Now the US can do what it pleases, without the threat of any real opposition. As I said, the US doesn't do these things, but it could and that is enough to put fear into our hearts. It is largely irrational, but then so is me liking long legged brunettes. Not much I can do about it. I can rationalise to death, but I just get frustrated because something tells me to be afraid of the US. I have seen it repeated a few times on here: US citizens are glad that they have the biggest guns. Why are they glad? Because it makes them feel safe, safe that if someone shoves them, they can shove back ten fold. Safe because everyone realises this and only the psychotics ever try and shove the US about. 911 did some damage to this, but not really much. Sorry to sound heartless b
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brianwelsch wrote: It has become very apparent that nearly everyone has an opinion of the US, and watches our moves with a suspicious eye. In trying to understand this situation better, and develop my own more educated views, I'd like to ask some help. It is very hard to really put a finger on what pisses us off about the US. I can never state actual events or facts which condem the US, because there aren't that many and the ones that are there are not really the root of the problem (they are like skirmishes in a far off land, nothing to do with the evil in the capital.) This little insight actually makes the situation worse because it frustrates us no end. We want to point and say "There! That is what you did wrong, now repent you rich bastards!", but we can't. :) So I got to thinking that the US to us is like a wolf. It does not have to tear off my arm before I realise it is dangerous, it just has to smile and I know that it could tear my arm off. The US could invade SA and it could make my life a living hell. It could, it most likely won't, but it could. And there is nobody else around who could stop the US. When the US decides on something, nobody can stop them. At least in the whole cold war era there were two balancing super powers of differing ideals. So the US could never just do what it pleased and neither could the USSR. Each knew that if it tried to bulldoze, it would come up against the other super power. The rest of the world then felt that neither would do anything because you fell on either side of the dividing line and so were theoretically protected. So the rest of the world kept an eye on the fragile stand-off, but generally carried on with life. Now there is no opposition. Now the US can do what it pleases, without the threat of any real opposition. As I said, the US doesn't do these things, but it could and that is enough to put fear into our hearts. It is largely irrational, but then so is me liking long legged brunettes. Not much I can do about it. I can rationalise to death, but I just get frustrated because something tells me to be afraid of the US. I have seen it repeated a few times on here: US citizens are glad that they have the biggest guns. Why are they glad? Because it makes them feel safe, safe that if someone shoves them, they can shove back ten fold. Safe because everyone realises this and only the psychotics ever try and shove the US about. 911 did some damage to this, but not really much. Sorry to sound heartless b
Yep, it is largely a case of sour grapes, coupled with a feeling of frustration that the citizens of this super-country are largely so ignorant of the rest of us. I suppose we feel that with the power goes responsibility (not trying to sound like spiderman :-O )
Deploying a web application without understanding security is roughly equivalent to driving a car without seatbelts - down a slippery road, over a monstrous chasm, with no brakes, and the throttle jammed on full.
Hacking Exposed - Web Applications. Â Â Joel Scambray & Mike Shema
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I must admit to my general ignorance in US foreign policy. Visiting CP over the past few months has indeed opened my eyes to many things which I'm desperately trying to learn about and digest. It has become very apparent that nearly everyone has an opinion of the US, and watches our moves with a suspicious eye. In trying to understand this situation better, and develop my own more educated views, I'd like to ask some help. Not only would it take forever for me to Google about looking for tidbits, but I'd like some real feedback from people. So I would be extremely grateful if CPians could relate information to me regarding US policy in their own country. Anything is fair game, good or bad. Replying here is fine, or you can send it personally to brian.welsch@greenvillearea.net[^] Thanks for your help. BW "I'm coming with you! I got you fired, it's the least I can do. Well, the least I could do is absolutely nothing, but I'll go you one better and come along!" - Homer J. Simpson
Brian, When you find some issue make every effort to respond politely and leave room for an honest friendly answer. There are several members who will give you an honest and usually friendly response to what you are saying. Do not take offence (at least most of the time) to others miss reading your sentences. Those in the US do use a lot of slang that is read differently by others. Just my 2 cents for part one. I have had the fortune to have several others on this list spend the time to educate me on how they look at issues. Often taking 4 or 5 round trips before we agree on what we are saying. To all of them a BIG thank you from me. For recent events, the biggest issue that I find is the feeling that the US is not accountable to anyone but the US. Now even though I do not feel this way it is enough of a common feeling that I think the US should do more to address this. I have begun a letter to my leadership to point this out. If nothing else we can show that we do hold our country accountable.
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You realize, I suppose, that the news we get here is badly slanted? We not only have no idea what our leaders are doing in the world on our behalf, but we also get no news about what the rest of the world thinks of it. If you're like most people here, you see only what the Liberal media want you to see. You have to work a bit harder to see the whole story. I think I can safely say that 99.5% don't bother, but instead base their opinions on the liberal pap handed out by CNN or their equivalent local newsfeed. "When in danger, fear, or doubt, run in circles, scream and shout!" - Lorelei and Lapis Lazuli Long
Roger Wright wrote: You realize, I suppose, that the news we get here is badly slanted? Precisely one of the reasons I wanted to get feedback from the diverse population here on CP. BW "I'm coming with you! I got you fired, it's the least I can do. Well, the least I could do is absolutely nothing, but I'll go you one better and come along!" - Homer J. Simpson
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The US has been making grumblings about having a freetrade agreement with NZ. Currently as per the APEC agreement NZ has ZERO tariffs etc on any US imports or any other country. As to the agreement in 2010 the APEC area is meant to be a total freetrade area. Fact I think this is highly unlikely. My stupid government listens to the US grumblings and sucks up to the US trying to tie military security into trade. I don't think the US is at fault with this, but in a couple of years you guy's will be blamed for it, for sure when it all falls apart. The truth is the US is unlikely to be able to deliver bilateral freetrade agreements outside of North America due to the internal lobby groups and interests. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
Thanks, Colin. BW "I'm coming with you! I got you fired, it's the least I can do. Well, the least I could do is absolutely nothing, but I'll go you one better and come along!" - Homer J. Simpson
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brianwelsch wrote: It has become very apparent that nearly everyone has an opinion of the US, and watches our moves with a suspicious eye. In trying to understand this situation better, and develop my own more educated views, I'd like to ask some help. It is very hard to really put a finger on what pisses us off about the US. I can never state actual events or facts which condem the US, because there aren't that many and the ones that are there are not really the root of the problem (they are like skirmishes in a far off land, nothing to do with the evil in the capital.) This little insight actually makes the situation worse because it frustrates us no end. We want to point and say "There! That is what you did wrong, now repent you rich bastards!", but we can't. :) So I got to thinking that the US to us is like a wolf. It does not have to tear off my arm before I realise it is dangerous, it just has to smile and I know that it could tear my arm off. The US could invade SA and it could make my life a living hell. It could, it most likely won't, but it could. And there is nobody else around who could stop the US. When the US decides on something, nobody can stop them. At least in the whole cold war era there were two balancing super powers of differing ideals. So the US could never just do what it pleased and neither could the USSR. Each knew that if it tried to bulldoze, it would come up against the other super power. The rest of the world then felt that neither would do anything because you fell on either side of the dividing line and so were theoretically protected. So the rest of the world kept an eye on the fragile stand-off, but generally carried on with life. Now there is no opposition. Now the US can do what it pleases, without the threat of any real opposition. As I said, the US doesn't do these things, but it could and that is enough to put fear into our hearts. It is largely irrational, but then so is me liking long legged brunettes. Not much I can do about it. I can rationalise to death, but I just get frustrated because something tells me to be afraid of the US. I have seen it repeated a few times on here: US citizens are glad that they have the biggest guns. Why are they glad? Because it makes them feel safe, safe that if someone shoves them, they can shove back ten fold. Safe because everyone realises this and only the psychotics ever try and shove the US about. 911 did some damage to this, but not really much. Sorry to sound heartless b
Paul Watson wrote: I can never state actual events or facts which condem the US, How about economic backing for the ruling white class during Apartheid? I think it might have been Kissinger who said that the elite whites were there to stay, and would be the only method through which any change could happen. It's alot more than a vague uneasiness that there is a country that has alot of power that is essentially unchecked. There are places this government has screwed up or made bad decisions. Whether we act(Bosnia) or not(Rwanda) there are consequences and judgements made. I think there are two overriding US concerns when the US makes a move. 1- What is best for us? and can we work a deal to get it? 2- There is no immediate interest there for us, so can we justify tax dollars and possibly American lives? Paul Watson wrote: We hate ourselves for being so submissive to the US. So how do begin to change the relationship? You don't really hate your brother, per se, but he's become so successful his influence is aways there. The problem is you can't leave the house. (is this about right?) Paul Watson wrote: Countries should be able to make their own decisions on their own steam, not the steam of the US. There's a book called "7 habits of highly Effective People", which talks about this on a personal level. You can not allow the actions or reactions of others influence how you behave, or make decisions. Or I suppose Polonius said it too: "To thine own self be true". Can this be extended somehow to a national level? Do we have to apply reactionary politics to everything? Paul Watson wrote: We might as well just all stand up and start singing the US anthem, because sovereign countries we are not. Just don't lose the flags and the different languages. It's so funny to hear people jabber in their native tongues, and see them uselessly proudly wave their little flags. ;);P I don't know what the hell to do about any of it. Getting a couple of posts or emails doesn't solve a damn thing. Ah well, I still need to get some work done....... BW "I'm coming with you! I got you fired, it's the least I can do. Well, the least I could do is absolutely nothing, but I'll go you one better and come along!" - Homer J. Simpson
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I must admit to my general ignorance in US foreign policy. Visiting CP over the past few months has indeed opened my eyes to many things which I'm desperately trying to learn about and digest. It has become very apparent that nearly everyone has an opinion of the US, and watches our moves with a suspicious eye. In trying to understand this situation better, and develop my own more educated views, I'd like to ask some help. Not only would it take forever for me to Google about looking for tidbits, but I'd like some real feedback from people. So I would be extremely grateful if CPians could relate information to me regarding US policy in their own country. Anything is fair game, good or bad. Replying here is fine, or you can send it personally to brian.welsch@greenvillearea.net[^] Thanks for your help. BW "I'm coming with you! I got you fired, it's the least I can do. Well, the least I could do is absolutely nothing, but I'll go you one better and come along!" - Homer J. Simpson
Brian, Nice thread, I wish you luck and I caution you as well. I agree that the US press is slanted. They really know how to push our buttons and ignore big issues in other countries. I doubt anybody will deny that. The thing you need to remember is that the non-US press is equally slanted. There are as many different angles as there are news sources. The SA press is skewed to SA interests, the Australian press is skewed to Australian interests, the French press... ad infinitum. IMO your best bet is to read as much of it as possible, consider the sources and assume the truth is somewhere in the middle. Another thing to remember is that many of the "voices" here on CP are equally slanted. There have been many "ignorant American" voices making ludicrous comments about the world outside of the US. They become the poster children for the worst stereo-types. Likewise, there have been an equal number of non-American voices who make ignorant comments about US culture based entirely on Hollywood movies and television. Many of these folks have never been here, but act like they know us intimately. I've been accused (several times) here at CP of being the "Ugly American". Of scanning the forums for any anti-American comments and jumping into the fray. Although this is not true, I can understand why it might appear so. On serious topics, I try to comment only on those issues where I have direct knowledge or real experience. You'll find some CPians that feel like they are experts on everything based on nothing. They read one article from one source and feel like they know "the truth" and need to spout off about it. In most cases other perspectives or "alternate truths" are exposed. All in all, the CP "Lounge" and "Soapbox" forums are an excellent source for getting a very diverse group of intelligent perspectives about world issues.
Mike Mullikin :beer: Well, I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation. David St. Hubbins - Spinal Tap
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Brian, Nice thread, I wish you luck and I caution you as well. I agree that the US press is slanted. They really know how to push our buttons and ignore big issues in other countries. I doubt anybody will deny that. The thing you need to remember is that the non-US press is equally slanted. There are as many different angles as there are news sources. The SA press is skewed to SA interests, the Australian press is skewed to Australian interests, the French press... ad infinitum. IMO your best bet is to read as much of it as possible, consider the sources and assume the truth is somewhere in the middle. Another thing to remember is that many of the "voices" here on CP are equally slanted. There have been many "ignorant American" voices making ludicrous comments about the world outside of the US. They become the poster children for the worst stereo-types. Likewise, there have been an equal number of non-American voices who make ignorant comments about US culture based entirely on Hollywood movies and television. Many of these folks have never been here, but act like they know us intimately. I've been accused (several times) here at CP of being the "Ugly American". Of scanning the forums for any anti-American comments and jumping into the fray. Although this is not true, I can understand why it might appear so. On serious topics, I try to comment only on those issues where I have direct knowledge or real experience. You'll find some CPians that feel like they are experts on everything based on nothing. They read one article from one source and feel like they know "the truth" and need to spout off about it. In most cases other perspectives or "alternate truths" are exposed. All in all, the CP "Lounge" and "Soapbox" forums are an excellent source for getting a very diverse group of intelligent perspectives about world issues.
Mike Mullikin :beer: Well, I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation. David St. Hubbins - Spinal Tap
The biggest cause for argument I have yet seen is miscommunication. Everyone has a different slant on everything. You can really only successfully communicate in a reasonable amount of time by sticking to one point of view, unless of course your point is to compare to opposing views. The big problem with this is, most people take their view to be the truth, simply because they don't know the other side or worse, don't even want to know the other side. It's time consuming and exhausting to listen, and not always obviously in someones best interest to hear others viewpoints. Mike Mullikin wrote: All in all, the CP "Lounge" and "Soapbox" forums are an excellent source for getting a very diverse group of intelligent perspectives about world issues. You said it, Mister! It's certainly interesting hanging out here. Even though it does seriously impede my productivity.:-O BW "I'm coming with you! I got you fired, it's the least I can do. Well, the least I could do is absolutely nothing, but I'll go you one better and come along!" - Homer J. Simpson
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:omg: Sorry,I fear to say. this is my signature for forums quoted from shog*9: I can't help but feel, somewhere deep within that withered, bitter, scheming person, there is a small child, frightened, looking a way out.
I was actually looking forward to a response from you zhoujun. Maybe next time. BW "I'm coming with you! I got you fired, it's the least I can do. Well, the least I could do is absolutely nothing, but I'll go you one better and come along!" - Homer J. Simpson
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You realize, I suppose, that the news we get here is badly slanted? We not only have no idea what our leaders are doing in the world on our behalf, but we also get no news about what the rest of the world thinks of it. If you're like most people here, you see only what the Liberal media want you to see. You have to work a bit harder to see the whole story. I think I can safely say that 99.5% don't bother, but instead base their opinions on the liberal pap handed out by CNN or their equivalent local newsfeed. "When in danger, fear, or doubt, run in circles, scream and shout!" - Lorelei and Lapis Lazuli Long
Roger, you need to move out of the 1980s. There's no such thing as a "liberal media" anymore. It's now corporate media. General Electric owns NBC, Disney owns ABC, TimeWarner owns CNN. News reports now favor what is good for the corporate parent, not a particular political slant. NBC reports favor war with Iraq because GE is a big defense contractor. ABC likes happy thoughts and light fluff because that's what gets people to DisneyWorldLand. Since CNN is owned by conservative stalwart Time-Warner, their reporting on Israel and other hot topics is now slanted. I wish there were still at least one liberal media outlet but there are none.
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The US is attempting to take over Australia by flooding us with US popular culture. :P Look up words like 'Castro' and 'Iran-Contra' in google, should give you heaps of info. Or Vietnam combined with the name of the puppet ruler the US set up in the south, which escapes me. But be sure to also look up the Marshall Plan and to realise that while the US has done a lot of bad, it has done a lot of good also. The bad that it does is usually well intentioned, which is no excuse, but the point, certainly of my comments, is to provide balance, and the fact is that while the US has little regard for the wishes of other countries, it's also true that the intention is generally good, and sometimes a LOT of good is done by the USA. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 Hey, at least Logo had, at it's inception, a mechanical turtle. VB has always lacked even that... - Shog9 04-09-2002 During last 10 years, with invention of VB and similar programming environments, every ill-educated moron became able to develop software. - Alex E. - 12-Sept-2002
Christian Graus wrote: 'Castro' and 'Iran-Contra' in google, should give you heaps of info. Or Vietnam I was thinking less publicized events, but now that you mention it, I really only have a passing knowledge about these too. :suss: BW "I'm coming with you! I got you fired, it's the least I can do. Well, the least I could do is absolutely nothing, but I'll go you one better and come along!" - Homer J. Simpson
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Paul Watson wrote: I can never state actual events or facts which condem the US, How about economic backing for the ruling white class during Apartheid? I think it might have been Kissinger who said that the elite whites were there to stay, and would be the only method through which any change could happen. It's alot more than a vague uneasiness that there is a country that has alot of power that is essentially unchecked. There are places this government has screwed up or made bad decisions. Whether we act(Bosnia) or not(Rwanda) there are consequences and judgements made. I think there are two overriding US concerns when the US makes a move. 1- What is best for us? and can we work a deal to get it? 2- There is no immediate interest there for us, so can we justify tax dollars and possibly American lives? Paul Watson wrote: We hate ourselves for being so submissive to the US. So how do begin to change the relationship? You don't really hate your brother, per se, but he's become so successful his influence is aways there. The problem is you can't leave the house. (is this about right?) Paul Watson wrote: Countries should be able to make their own decisions on their own steam, not the steam of the US. There's a book called "7 habits of highly Effective People", which talks about this on a personal level. You can not allow the actions or reactions of others influence how you behave, or make decisions. Or I suppose Polonius said it too: "To thine own self be true". Can this be extended somehow to a national level? Do we have to apply reactionary politics to everything? Paul Watson wrote: We might as well just all stand up and start singing the US anthem, because sovereign countries we are not. Just don't lose the flags and the different languages. It's so funny to hear people jabber in their native tongues, and see them uselessly proudly wave their little flags. ;);P I don't know what the hell to do about any of it. Getting a couple of posts or emails doesn't solve a damn thing. Ah well, I still need to get some work done....... BW "I'm coming with you! I got you fired, it's the least I can do. Well, the least I could do is absolutely nothing, but I'll go you one better and come along!" - Homer J. Simpson
brianwelsch wrote: Whether we act(Bosnia) or not(Rwanda) there are consequences and judgements made. That I am with the US on. You guys are damned if you do and damned if you don't, which is wrong. The rest of the world should not look to the US to solve it's un-US-related problems and it should not bitch when the US does nothing. If Rawanda goes to hell in a hand basket, why should we then yell at the US for not having done anything? It is part of that whole African psychique towards the west. We demand aid one day and then point fingers at the west for having ruined Africa. Hypocrites, it really angers me that my leaders do this. brianwelsch wrote: You don't really hate your brother, per se, but he's become so successful his influence is aways there. The problem is you can't leave the house. (is this about right?) Not quite. First I don't have a brother, and if I did, I would be the successful one... ;P Ok seriously though. The difference between this succesful brother thing and the US rest of world thing is that the successful brother does not use his success as leverage, or at least he shouldn't. If he does then he is a shitty brother. To us, what US does is, whether actively or passively, use their power to influence everything they can. They don't like the guy who looks like he is going to win the Timbuktu elections... they then drop a few hints and Timbuktu finds a reason to kick the guy out of the election race. It does happen even if the US has no idea they are doing it (obviously there are the psycho countries that just ignore the US in their elections but that then ends up in a regime change...) As I said, the US does not even have to bare it's fangs, all it has to do is shift one eyeball in the general direction of the country. As you said up above, the US meddles in things that maybe it really shouldn't. brianwelsch wrote: You can not allow the actions or reactions of others influence how you behave, or make decisions. Or I suppose Polonius said it too: "To thine own self be true". Can this be extended somehow to a national level? Do we have to apply reactionary politics to everything? I guess we do when the alternative is regime change. "This guy is pretty radical, but he will be good for the country I think... Oh wait, I just read that Bush has this guy on his Not Nice People list... better not let him get into power then or the commandos will be banging on our doors in a years ti
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brianwelsch wrote: Whether we act(Bosnia) or not(Rwanda) there are consequences and judgements made. That I am with the US on. You guys are damned if you do and damned if you don't, which is wrong. The rest of the world should not look to the US to solve it's un-US-related problems and it should not bitch when the US does nothing. If Rawanda goes to hell in a hand basket, why should we then yell at the US for not having done anything? It is part of that whole African psychique towards the west. We demand aid one day and then point fingers at the west for having ruined Africa. Hypocrites, it really angers me that my leaders do this. brianwelsch wrote: You don't really hate your brother, per se, but he's become so successful his influence is aways there. The problem is you can't leave the house. (is this about right?) Not quite. First I don't have a brother, and if I did, I would be the successful one... ;P Ok seriously though. The difference between this succesful brother thing and the US rest of world thing is that the successful brother does not use his success as leverage, or at least he shouldn't. If he does then he is a shitty brother. To us, what US does is, whether actively or passively, use their power to influence everything they can. They don't like the guy who looks like he is going to win the Timbuktu elections... they then drop a few hints and Timbuktu finds a reason to kick the guy out of the election race. It does happen even if the US has no idea they are doing it (obviously there are the psycho countries that just ignore the US in their elections but that then ends up in a regime change...) As I said, the US does not even have to bare it's fangs, all it has to do is shift one eyeball in the general direction of the country. As you said up above, the US meddles in things that maybe it really shouldn't. brianwelsch wrote: You can not allow the actions or reactions of others influence how you behave, or make decisions. Or I suppose Polonius said it too: "To thine own self be true". Can this be extended somehow to a national level? Do we have to apply reactionary politics to everything? I guess we do when the alternative is regime change. "This guy is pretty radical, but he will be good for the country I think... Oh wait, I just read that Bush has this guy on his Not Nice People list... better not let him get into power then or the commandos will be banging on our doors in a years ti
Paul Watson wrote: Better than not thinking about it. Rather hammer futiley at the locked door than just sit and ignore it. Obviously finding a way to get through the locked door would be even better though. Well said. Shog9 ------
Rather hammer futiley at the locked door than just sit and ignore it. Obviously finding a way to get through the locked door would be even better though.- Paul Watson, My Ignorance