16 Page CV!
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I would be curious if the applicant is able to remember all that stuff. :)
If the Lord God Almighty had consulted me before embarking upon the Creation, I would have recommended something simpler. -- Alfonso the Wise, 13th Century King of Castile.
This is going on my arrogant assumptions. You may have a superb reason why I'm completely wrong. -- Iain Clarke
[My articles]One of they keys of going into an interview is to make sure to be clear about (and remember) what one has written in their CV.
The funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realise it doesn't say anything it's too late to stop reading it. My latest tip/trick Visit the Hindi forum here.
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Just received a 16 page CV from a applicant - is it just me or is that way too much? fair enough most of his career has been as a contract programmer and he's done a lot of jobs but he's listed every single project he's worked on (as far as I can see) some of them only a couple of weeks long. My first thought was 'I can't be arsed to read all this'
I've been in the business since 1980, and mine is only four pages (not counting the list of skills I've acquired - that's an additional two pages).
.45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"The staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - J. Jystad, 2001 -
Or better still... "If you don't have aspergers do not apply" No, My rejections are based on the ability of the applicant to read and comprehend. If they cannot read and comprehend how the hell are they supposed to do the job? I am not going to sit in an interview for a site manager and talk to someone who cannot follow architects plans or work to a budget because his tiny little brain cannot understand the reasons he is being asked to do things.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC League Table Link CCC Link[^]
Dalek Dave wrote:
follow architects plans or work to a budget
I don't see what introductory letters (which an agency probably didn't ask for) or handwriting have got to do with either of those abilities. You sound like the emperor of China, who appointed people as Mandarins based almost entirely on their calligraphy (which is why China became "the poor man of the East"). If you're hiring project managers, look at their ability to manage projects, not their abilities in marketing themselves in introductory letters, handwriting, Barbie-doll dressing, or playing Halo. If a formula actually exists for finding "the best man for the job", you can be damned sure that introductory letters and handwriting are not factors in it, no matter what the job is (Mandarin notwithstanding), so it's extremely unlikely that your formula will get you the best men for the jobs. You should take a look into the "science" of staffing. There's a lot more to it than you'd expect (there's also a lot of b*llsh1t, which appears to have been written to cover the @rses of people who've made bad decisions, but that's normal).
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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I've been in the business since 1980, and mine is only four pages (not counting the list of skills I've acquired - that's an additional two pages).
.45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"The staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - J. Jystad, 2001JSOP, nail, hit. 1 page for the candidate's education plus 1 page PER DECADE worked. Sorted!
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. or "Drink. Get drunk. Fall over." - P O'H
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Pretty sensible rules but regarding the last point about spelling and grammar - until this week I would have agreed with you but out of the 8 applications received so far 7 are from 'non-native english speakers'. Now some of them have spelling mistakes - no real excuse, what are spell checkers for after all, but all of them have grammatical errors which you might attribute to the fact they are non-native english speakers. How do you decide on that? Do you make an allowance for that? (in which case I have no candidates!) If you do allow for that then shouldn't you allow for it in all cases?
Is writing in perfect English a function of the job? (And if you say they have to write manuals for the software they produce, I'll have no choice but to shoot you -- Developers Don't Write Manuals!)
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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JSOP, nail, hit. 1 page for the candidate's education plus 1 page PER DECADE worked. Sorted!
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. or "Drink. Get drunk. Fall over." - P O'H
Nagy Vilmos wrote:
1 page for the candidate's education plus 1 page PER DECADE worked.
Another formula. <spits> I'll give you the formula: "Can He Do The Job?" That's the only formula you need.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Dalek Dave wrote:
follow architects plans or work to a budget
I don't see what introductory letters (which an agency probably didn't ask for) or handwriting have got to do with either of those abilities. You sound like the emperor of China, who appointed people as Mandarins based almost entirely on their calligraphy (which is why China became "the poor man of the East"). If you're hiring project managers, look at their ability to manage projects, not their abilities in marketing themselves in introductory letters, handwriting, Barbie-doll dressing, or playing Halo. If a formula actually exists for finding "the best man for the job", you can be damned sure that introductory letters and handwriting are not factors in it, no matter what the job is (Mandarin notwithstanding), so it's extremely unlikely that your formula will get you the best men for the jobs. You should take a look into the "science" of staffing. There's a lot more to it than you'd expect (there's also a lot of b*llsh1t, which appears to have been written to cover the @rses of people who've made bad decisions, but that's normal).
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
I do not expect Copperplate, but it must be readable. If I cannot read it easily then it is 'Sloppy' and sloppiness in one area is often seen in others. We turnover staff at the rate of maybe one person every three years, so our method obviously works. (I have been here 13 years and others for far longer).
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC League Table Link CCC Link[^]
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I work for a Land Developers, and deal with Tradesmen and Artisans as well as Professionals like Architects and Planners. Since there is a lot of legal stuff involved, accurate communication is important.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC League Table Link CCC Link[^]
Accurate communication is vital (not in a legal sense though, phew) in my role, it is just the medium that is different. I'm not being contradictory, just painting the picture that not everyone in the world relies on hand writing any more. It is not because I am sloppy, but it is now officially an almost totally unused skill for me. I'll pick it up again when I need to I suspect.
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HANDWRITING! If someone has bad handwriting it can lead to confusion and misunderstanding at a later date.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC League Table Link CCC Link[^]
I have bad handwritting being left handed (well thats my excuse!) but with this good old age of technology I type me communications so they can be easily read. Surely the effectiveness of the communication is what is more important. I have worked with people who have had great handwritting but their communication skills were poor!
As barmey as a sack of badgers Dude, if I knew what I was doing in life, I'd be rich, retired, dating a supermodel and laughing at the rest of you from the sidelines.
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Is writing in perfect English a function of the job? (And if you say they have to write manuals for the software they produce, I'll have no choice but to shoot you -- Developers Don't Write Manuals!)
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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I have bad handwritting being left handed (well thats my excuse!) but with this good old age of technology I type me communications so they can be easily read. Surely the effectiveness of the communication is what is more important. I have worked with people who have had great handwritting but their communication skills were poor!
As barmey as a sack of badgers Dude, if I knew what I was doing in life, I'd be rich, retired, dating a supermodel and laughing at the rest of you from the sidelines.
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I do not expect Copperplate, but it must be readable. If I cannot read it easily then it is 'Sloppy' and sloppiness in one area is often seen in others. We turnover staff at the rate of maybe one person every three years, so our method obviously works. (I have been here 13 years and others for far longer).
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC League Table Link CCC Link[^]
Dalek Dave wrote:
sloppiness in one area is often seen in others
That is about as untrue as it gets. I believe I have yet to meet a carpenter with good handwriting, or with much knowledge of grammar, or who is able to write marketing copy to sell themselves in introductory letters. It's their lack of sloppiness with a chisel that counts. You may have filled some seats (perhaps with people who are inflexible, frightened of change, and/or good politicians, if they've lasted that long), but are you sure you got the *Best*? Based on your rejection method, I'd say it's eminently unlikely.
By the way, compared to mine, your English is Very sloppy. BIN!
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yes you are correct :)
As barmey as a sack of badgers Dude, if I knew what I was doing in life, I'd be rich, retired, dating a supermodel and laughing at the rest of you from the sidelines.
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Just received a 16 page CV from a applicant - is it just me or is that way too much? fair enough most of his career has been as a contract programmer and he's done a lot of jobs but he's listed every single project he's worked on (as far as I can see) some of them only a couple of weeks long. My first thought was 'I can't be arsed to read all this'
did he write everything in 72pt :laugh:
TVMU^P[[IGIOQHG^JSH`A#@`RFJ\c^JPL>;"[,*/|+&WLEZGc`AFXc!L %^]*IRXD#@GKCQ`R\^SF_WcHbORY87֦ʻ6ϣN8ȤBcRAV\Z^&SU~%CSWQ@#2 W_AD`EPABIKRDFVS)EVLQK)JKQUFK[M`UKs*$GwU#QDXBER@CBN% R0~53%eYrd8mt^7Z6]iTF+(EWfJ9zaK-iTV.C\y<pjxsg-b$f4ia>
----------------------------------------------- 128 bit encrypted signature, crack if you can
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Dalek Dave wrote:
sloppiness in one area is often seen in others
That is about as untrue as it gets. I believe I have yet to meet a carpenter with good handwriting, or with much knowledge of grammar, or who is able to write marketing copy to sell themselves in introductory letters. It's their lack of sloppiness with a chisel that counts. You may have filled some seats (perhaps with people who are inflexible, frightened of change, and/or good politicians, if they've lasted that long), but are you sure you got the *Best*? Based on your rejection method, I'd say it's eminently unlikely.
By the way, compared to mine, your English is Very sloppy. BIN!
I don't hire Carpenters or Electricians. I am dealing with management types, Site Managers, Supervisors, Draughtsment etc. I know a sparky will not have the writing skills of Geoffrey Chaucer, and I don't care. What I want is a manager who can communicate.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC League Table Link CCC Link[^]
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Just received a 16 page CV from a applicant - is it just me or is that way too much? fair enough most of his career has been as a contract programmer and he's done a lot of jobs but he's listed every single project he's worked on (as far as I can see) some of them only a couple of weeks long. My first thought was 'I can't be arsed to read all this'
I keep two copies of my CV updated - a single-page abridged teaser and the full 4 page monster. With 21 years experience I think 4 pages is OK. When I was looking for a new job earlier this year I did my best to keep the full CV to two pages but most recruiters told me to flesh it out.
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I've been in the business since 1980, and mine is only four pages (not counting the list of skills I've acquired - that's an additional two pages).
.45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
-----
"The staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - J. Jystad, 2001If you're good at CCC then DD's job is yours. :)
If the Lord God Almighty had consulted me before embarking upon the Creation, I would have recommended something simpler. -- Alfonso the Wise, 13th Century King of Castile.
This is going on my arrogant assumptions. You may have a superb reason why I'm completely wrong. -- Iain Clarke
[My articles] -
Just received a 16 page CV from a applicant - is it just me or is that way too much? fair enough most of his career has been as a contract programmer and he's done a lot of jobs but he's listed every single project he's worked on (as far as I can see) some of them only a couple of weeks long. My first thought was 'I can't be arsed to read all this'
This has always been my advice for a contractor and a CV[^]
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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Just received a 16 page CV from a applicant - is it just me or is that way too much? fair enough most of his career has been as a contract programmer and he's done a lot of jobs but he's listed every single project he's worked on (as far as I can see) some of them only a couple of weeks long. My first thought was 'I can't be arsed to read all this'
- Page 1: "let me introduce myself".
- Page 2: "let me introduce my family".
- Page 3: "let me introduce my dog". (keeping animals 'out of the family' helps...)
...
:rolleyes:
If the Lord God Almighty had consulted me before embarking upon the Creation, I would have recommended something simpler. -- Alfonso the Wise, 13th Century King of Castile.
This is going on my arrogant assumptions. You may have a superb reason why I'm completely wrong. -- Iain Clarke
[My articles] -
This has always been my advice for a contractor and a CV[^]
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
I would absolutely disagree with this point though:- "...the agent or employer will discard or disregard anything that they don't feel is up to date or relevant" Its surely up the the employee to tailor his CV to suit the application? Why should I wade through 15 pages of irrelevant crap looking for something useful?
