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Have you read these?

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  • realJSOPR realJSOP

    Mark Wallace wrote:

    and maybe a bit of judicious Googling

    Googling of *any* kind is only really exercised by people that have the drive and determination to actually find the answer and discover new ideas rather than waiting to be spoon-fed by others who can only make wild-assed guesses due to the low quality and lack of applicable information and/or requirements in the posted question. I'm not bitter. Not me...

    ".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
    -----
    You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
    -----
    "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997

    M Offline
    M Offline
    Mark_Wallace
    wrote on last edited by
    #7

    Your Christmas gift to your blood pressure should have been staying away from Q&A for a few days.

    I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!

    1 Reply Last reply
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    • M Mark_Wallace

      Mark Nischalke wrote:

      Perhaps CP could add a recommended reading list with rankings

      Others have tried and failed. The books that get the highest rankings are almost always the ones used for university courses, most of which are unreadable and useless, without having the lecturer to explain it all properly. The best knowledge resources are help files and CP (and maybe a bit of judicious Googling); books are only really needed when moving to new fields, and are soon discarded in favour of help files and CP (and maybe a bit of judicious Googling).

      I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!

      N Offline
      N Offline
      Not Active
      wrote on last edited by
      #8

      I agree. I usually go through a book or two on a new subject to learn it then if I need to follow-up I'll browse the bookshop to read a chapter or two as necessary. My Nook Color is very nice for this sort of thing. Free wifi in the stores and the ability to read books free for an hour a day. :-D


      I know the language. I've read a book. - _Madmatt

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      • E Ennis Ray Lynch Jr

        Having read Design Patterns by the GOF I will have to say that it is not essential to our profession and has probably done more harm than good.

        Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. I also do Android Programming as I find it a refreshing break from the MS. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost

        N Offline
        N Offline
        Not Active
        wrote on last edited by
        #9

        Interesting view. Care to elaborate on why?


        I know the language. I've read a book. - _Madmatt

        E 1 Reply Last reply
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        • N Not Active

          Going back to a discussion with co-workers I was somewhat surprised to learn that senior architects had not heard of these books let alone read them. I view both of these as classics that all developers should read if they want to move beyond just hacking out code all day. The questions are: 1) Have you read them? 2) What level of professional do you consider yourself? (Developer, Team Lead, Architect, etc.) Software Requirements, 2nd Edition[^] by Karl Wiegers Professional Software Development[^] by Steve McConnell There are several thousand books on the subject but which do you recommend as essential guidance for our profession? (Design Patterns (Gof) is a given :) ) Perhaps CP could add a recommended reading list with rankings, sort of a book review forum, to help people in searching a subject matter.


          I know the language. I've read a book. - _Madmatt

          L Offline
          L Offline
          Lost User
          wrote on last edited by
          #10

          I've read Code Complete by Steve McConnell, essential reading for real world projects. In fact, I give a copy to my intern each year.

          Join the cool kids - Come fold with us[^]

          N 1 Reply Last reply
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          • E Ennis Ray Lynch Jr

            Having read Design Patterns by the GOF I will have to say that it is not essential to our profession and has probably done more harm than good.

            Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. I also do Android Programming as I find it a refreshing break from the MS. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost

            N Offline
            N Offline
            Nemanja Trifunovic
            wrote on last edited by
            #11

            Ennis Ray Lynch, Jr. wrote:

            and has probably done more harm than good.

            That. The only value I see in design patterns is some standardization in terminology. The patterns themselves are in best cases merely description of existing practices and in worst cases a wrong way to solve problems. And don't get me started on the C++ code samples in that book - this is exactly how C++ should never be written.

            utf8-cpp

            N 1 Reply Last reply
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            • N Not Active

              Interesting view. Care to elaborate on why?


              I know the language. I've read a book. - _Madmatt

              E Offline
              E Offline
              Ennis Ray Lynch Jr
              wrote on last edited by
              #12

              Any developer with any profound experience will immediately recognize most of their book to be putting names to concepts they have been using for years. Any other developer will read the book and think, wow, I should be doing this and then rather than apply critical thinking he or she will blindly apply patterns even if they are inappropriate ... including the copy-paste pattern. Managers will read the book, mandate patterns for everything, fire the Architect for suggesting that sometimes a pattern is not right for the job, hire 3 Indians to replace him who only say yes, get promoted for lowering payroll and then not be responsible for the project's failure. Ironically, what I have written happens so much it should have a pattern named after it.

              Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. I also do Android Programming as I find it a refreshing break from the MS. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost

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              • E Ennis Ray Lynch Jr

                Any developer with any profound experience will immediately recognize most of their book to be putting names to concepts they have been using for years. Any other developer will read the book and think, wow, I should be doing this and then rather than apply critical thinking he or she will blindly apply patterns even if they are inappropriate ... including the copy-paste pattern. Managers will read the book, mandate patterns for everything, fire the Architect for suggesting that sometimes a pattern is not right for the job, hire 3 Indians to replace him who only say yes, get promoted for lowering payroll and then not be responsible for the project's failure. Ironically, what I have written happens so much it should have a pattern named after it.

                Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. I also do Android Programming as I find it a refreshing break from the MS. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost

                V Offline
                V Offline
                Vark111
                wrote on last edited by
                #13

                >> Ironically, what I have written happens so much it should have a pattern named after it. I propose Outsourcing Abstract Factory. OAF.

                1 Reply Last reply
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                • E Ennis Ray Lynch Jr

                  Any developer with any profound experience will immediately recognize most of their book to be putting names to concepts they have been using for years. Any other developer will read the book and think, wow, I should be doing this and then rather than apply critical thinking he or she will blindly apply patterns even if they are inappropriate ... including the copy-paste pattern. Managers will read the book, mandate patterns for everything, fire the Architect for suggesting that sometimes a pattern is not right for the job, hire 3 Indians to replace him who only say yes, get promoted for lowering payroll and then not be responsible for the project's failure. Ironically, what I have written happens so much it should have a pattern named after it.

                  Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. I also do Android Programming as I find it a refreshing break from the MS. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost

                  N Offline
                  N Offline
                  Not Active
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #14

                  Ennis Ray Lynch, Jr. wrote:

                  rather than apply critical thinking he or she will blindly apply patterns even if they are inappropriate

                  Is this fault of the book or its authors though? This can be said for just about anything. VB allowed low caliber developers to think they were good. There are great books on database normalization but when it is taken to extremes in can decrease performance. The trick is to understand the concepts and know when, and when not, to use them. Don't shoot the messenger.


                  I know the language. I've read a book. - _Madmatt

                  E J 2 Replies Last reply
                  0
                  • N Not Active

                    Going back to a discussion with co-workers I was somewhat surprised to learn that senior architects had not heard of these books let alone read them. I view both of these as classics that all developers should read if they want to move beyond just hacking out code all day. The questions are: 1) Have you read them? 2) What level of professional do you consider yourself? (Developer, Team Lead, Architect, etc.) Software Requirements, 2nd Edition[^] by Karl Wiegers Professional Software Development[^] by Steve McConnell There are several thousand books on the subject but which do you recommend as essential guidance for our profession? (Design Patterns (Gof) is a given :) ) Perhaps CP could add a recommended reading list with rankings, sort of a book review forum, to help people in searching a subject matter.


                    I know the language. I've read a book. - _Madmatt

                    V Offline
                    V Offline
                    Vark111
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #15

                    I've read the Requirements book. Haven't read McConnell's Pro Software Development. Is it much different from Code Complete (which I have read - and recommend)?

                    N 1 Reply Last reply
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                    • N Nemanja Trifunovic

                      Ennis Ray Lynch, Jr. wrote:

                      and has probably done more harm than good.

                      That. The only value I see in design patterns is some standardization in terminology. The patterns themselves are in best cases merely description of existing practices and in worst cases a wrong way to solve problems. And don't get me started on the C++ code samples in that book - this is exactly how C++ should never be written.

                      utf8-cpp

                      N Offline
                      N Offline
                      Not Active
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #16

                      I don't know whether to laugh at the ridiculousness of this statement or cry at what is happening to our industry that produces such thoughts


                      I know the language. I've read a book. - _Madmatt

                      J 1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • L Lost User

                        I've read Code Complete by Steve McConnell, essential reading for real world projects. In fact, I give a copy to my intern each year.

                        Join the cool kids - Come fold with us[^]

                        N Offline
                        N Offline
                        Not Active
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #17

                        Trollslayer wrote:

                        I give a copy to my intern each year

                        Doesn't your intern get tired of receiving the same book every year. ;P


                        I know the language. I've read a book. - _Madmatt

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • N Not Active

                          Going back to a discussion with co-workers I was somewhat surprised to learn that senior architects had not heard of these books let alone read them. I view both of these as classics that all developers should read if they want to move beyond just hacking out code all day. The questions are: 1) Have you read them? 2) What level of professional do you consider yourself? (Developer, Team Lead, Architect, etc.) Software Requirements, 2nd Edition[^] by Karl Wiegers Professional Software Development[^] by Steve McConnell There are several thousand books on the subject but which do you recommend as essential guidance for our profession? (Design Patterns (Gof) is a given :) ) Perhaps CP could add a recommended reading list with rankings, sort of a book review forum, to help people in searching a subject matter.


                          I know the language. I've read a book. - _Madmatt

                          N Offline
                          N Offline
                          Nemanja Trifunovic
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #18

                          Mark Nischalke wrote:

                          which do you recommend as essential guidance for our profession?

                          Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs[^] Writing Solid Code[^] (old, but still very relevant) Code Complete[^] Writing Secure Code[^] The Art of Computer Programming[^] (as a reference) Advanced Windows Debugging[^] (of course, only for Windows developers). Elements of Programming[^] There are many other good books that are language/technology specific, so I won't mention them here.

                          utf8-cpp

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                          • V Vark111

                            I've read the Requirements book. Haven't read McConnell's Pro Software Development. Is it much different from Code Complete (which I have read - and recommend)?

                            N Offline
                            N Offline
                            Not Active
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #19

                            It is more about the development of the software developer them-self rather than the code they produce.


                            I know the language. I've read a book. - _Madmatt

                            modified on Thursday, December 30, 2010 10:31 AM

                            1 Reply Last reply
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                            • N Not Active

                              Ennis Ray Lynch, Jr. wrote:

                              rather than apply critical thinking he or she will blindly apply patterns even if they are inappropriate

                              Is this fault of the book or its authors though? This can be said for just about anything. VB allowed low caliber developers to think they were good. There are great books on database normalization but when it is taken to extremes in can decrease performance. The trick is to understand the concepts and know when, and when not, to use them. Don't shoot the messenger.


                              I know the language. I've read a book. - _Madmatt

                              E Offline
                              E Offline
                              Ennis Ray Lynch Jr
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #20

                              It doesn't matter whose fault it is, the premise in the original post was that the book benefits our profession. It does not. Although, I have not read it, "The Mythical Man-Month" has been almost universally praised as being a benefit to our profession.

                              Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. I also do Android Programming as I find it a refreshing break from the MS. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost

                              J 1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • N Not Active

                                Going back to a discussion with co-workers I was somewhat surprised to learn that senior architects had not heard of these books let alone read them. I view both of these as classics that all developers should read if they want to move beyond just hacking out code all day. The questions are: 1) Have you read them? 2) What level of professional do you consider yourself? (Developer, Team Lead, Architect, etc.) Software Requirements, 2nd Edition[^] by Karl Wiegers Professional Software Development[^] by Steve McConnell There are several thousand books on the subject but which do you recommend as essential guidance for our profession? (Design Patterns (Gof) is a given :) ) Perhaps CP could add a recommended reading list with rankings, sort of a book review forum, to help people in searching a subject matter.


                                I know the language. I've read a book. - _Madmatt

                                R Offline
                                R Offline
                                Ravi Sant
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #21

                                I haven't heard, seen or read any of two books. But, one book, i would recommend developers is: ยป The Pragmatic Programmer: From Journeyman to Master It is a wonderful book :) Also, i like to read several books on design patterns and uml, beside this.

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • N Not Active

                                  Going back to a discussion with co-workers I was somewhat surprised to learn that senior architects had not heard of these books let alone read them. I view both of these as classics that all developers should read if they want to move beyond just hacking out code all day. The questions are: 1) Have you read them? 2) What level of professional do you consider yourself? (Developer, Team Lead, Architect, etc.) Software Requirements, 2nd Edition[^] by Karl Wiegers Professional Software Development[^] by Steve McConnell There are several thousand books on the subject but which do you recommend as essential guidance for our profession? (Design Patterns (Gof) is a given :) ) Perhaps CP could add a recommended reading list with rankings, sort of a book review forum, to help people in searching a subject matter.


                                  I know the language. I've read a book. - _Madmatt

                                  S Offline
                                  S Offline
                                  Simon_Whale
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #22

                                  Mark Nischalke wrote:

                                  Design Patterns (Gof)

                                  Hardest thing I have done while learning Design patterns myself is to explain to my colleague that you design the application on paper and then see if you have an appropriate case for using a design pattern not the other way around. But otherwise I read books and Google a hell of a lot while learning new topics

                                  As barmey as a sack of badgers Dude, if I knew what I was doing in life, I'd be rich, retired, dating a supermodel and laughing at the rest of you from the sidelines.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • realJSOPR realJSOP

                                    Mark Wallace wrote:

                                    and maybe a bit of judicious Googling

                                    Googling of *any* kind is only really exercised by people that have the drive and determination to actually find the answer and discover new ideas rather than waiting to be spoon-fed by others who can only make wild-assed guesses due to the low quality and lack of applicable information and/or requirements in the posted question. I'm not bitter. Not me...

                                    ".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
                                    -----
                                    You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
                                    -----
                                    "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997

                                    D Offline
                                    D Offline
                                    Dalek Dave
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #23

                                    Heaven forfend, you are starting to sound rather cynical, unlike your usual, carefree and charitable self!

                                    ------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC League Table Link CCC Link[

                                    realJSOPR 1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • N Not Active

                                      Going back to a discussion with co-workers I was somewhat surprised to learn that senior architects had not heard of these books let alone read them. I view both of these as classics that all developers should read if they want to move beyond just hacking out code all day. The questions are: 1) Have you read them? 2) What level of professional do you consider yourself? (Developer, Team Lead, Architect, etc.) Software Requirements, 2nd Edition[^] by Karl Wiegers Professional Software Development[^] by Steve McConnell There are several thousand books on the subject but which do you recommend as essential guidance for our profession? (Design Patterns (Gof) is a given :) ) Perhaps CP could add a recommended reading list with rankings, sort of a book review forum, to help people in searching a subject matter.


                                      I know the language. I've read a book. - _Madmatt

                                      M Offline
                                      M Offline
                                      Marc Clifton
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #24

                                      Mark Nischalke wrote:

                                      1. Have you read them?

                                      No.

                                      Mark Nischalke wrote:

                                      1. What level of professional do you consider yourself?

                                      Yoda ;) Marc

                                      N 1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • D Dalek Dave

                                        Heaven forfend, you are starting to sound rather cynical, unlike your usual, carefree and charitable self!

                                        ------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC League Table Link CCC Link[

                                        realJSOPR Offline
                                        realJSOPR Offline
                                        realJSOP
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #25

                                        This IS me being my usual carefree and charitable self... :)

                                        ".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
                                        -----
                                        You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
                                        -----
                                        "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • M Marc Clifton

                                          Mark Nischalke wrote:

                                          1. Have you read them?

                                          No.

                                          Mark Nischalke wrote:

                                          1. What level of professional do you consider yourself?

                                          Yoda ;) Marc

                                          N Offline
                                          N Offline
                                          Not Active
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #26

                                          Marc Clifton wrote:

                                          Yoda

                                          Don't sell yourself so short ;P I thought is was Pete[^] though


                                          I know the language. I've read a book. - _Madmatt

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