Have you read these?

Marc Clifton

Mark Nischalke wrote:

Have you read them?

No.

Mark Nischalke wrote:

What level of professional do you consider yourself?

Yoda ;) Marc

realJSOP

This IS me being my usual carefree and charitable self... :)

".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997

Not Active

Marc Clifton wrote:

Yoda

Don't sell yourself so short ;P I thought is was Pete[^] though

I know the language. I've read a book. - _Madmatt

wizardzz

My old org tried to get everyone to read a book on SCRUM. SCRUM books should be shredded and burned. Everyone interprets how it should be implemented their own way. At my old job, SCRUM just gave management another way to look busy and feel involved in the production of the company's product.

Rama Krishna Vavilala

Mark Nischalke wrote:

Software Requirements, 2nd Edition[^] by Karl Wiegers

Yes, I think code complete is the one essential book. The books mentioned on cc for different levels come next.

Ian Shlasko

Like Ennis said, I think those design patterns books do more harm than good. Good programmers see a pattern in a book and often think "Oh, there's a name for that... I've been doing that for years." This makes communication slightly easier, but doesn't improve software quality very much. If it's actually new, then sure, it might inspire some new ideas. Below-average programmers, the ones who really need the books the most, will often see this pattern and think, "Wow, that's really cool! I should start using that for EVERYTHING!" And they do. And the rest of us die a little inside, while simultaneously chuckling and groaning at the new posts in the "Hall of Shame" forum. In my experience, I've seen more of the latter than the former... Patterns are nice, but the message needs to always be "Use the right tool for the right job." And that message just doesn't sell books.

Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)

Dan Mos

Mark Nischalke wrote:

Have you read them?

No

Mark Nischalke wrote:

which do you recommend as essential guidance for our profession?

VB for dummies.

Mark Nischalke wrote:

What level of professional do you consider yourself?

Dummy chieftain :cool:

All the best, Dan

Jun Du

Many developers have gone through all the stages you mentioned, developer, team lead and architect. The distinctions between them are becoming less important. In many companies, team leaders and architects also code significantly. The difference seems to be that more experienced developers have more responsibilities and do more integration and trouble-shooting. No. I haven't read the two books you listed. Everyone probably has their own reading list. My two handy books are the Gang of Four's "Design Patterns" and Jeffery Richter's "Programming Applications for Microsoft Windows".

Best, Jun

Not Active

Jun Du wrote:

Many developers have gone through all the stages

In most cases they have not gone through these stages but rather been given the title or responsibilities. An important distinction I believe. I'm sure we can all relate experiences with a lead or architect that had no idea what they were doing and only got the position through seniority.

I know the language. I've read a book. - _Madmatt

Member 96

Never heard of them and never read them and I absolutely disagree. I consider myself quite professional having made a living on apps I designed and coded in a highly competitive market for well over a decade now. Books are strictly 20th century, anyone can learn anything they need online now and the school of hard knocks can't be substituted by any book or course of study.

There is no failure only feedback

Not Active

John C wrote:

the school of hard knocks can't be substituted

but it can certainly be augmented with addition learning from other sources and other subjects. IMO that is the mark of a professional, always trying to improve oneself beyond the narrow skills of ones immediate position.

I know the language. I've read a book. - _Madmatt

Not Active

And what is the difference between the good programmer and the below-average one? How does the below-average become good? Do you discount the message because some misuse it or don't know how to interrupt it correctly?

I know the language. I've read a book. - _Madmatt

Ian Shlasko

Don't discount the message... Change the message... Instead of "Here's a great new design pattern that will make everything work better!" it should be "Here's another possible way to design your system, and here's when it should be used: ..." Unfortunately, that wouldn't sell as many books, so it'll never happen.

Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)

Not Active

Ian Shlasko wrote:

"Here's a great new design pattern that will make everything work better!"

I can't recall any book making such a claim. Could be interrupting it as such because of your bias?

Ian Shlasko wrote:

"Here's another possible way to design your system, and here's when it should be used: ..."

Curious because this is what I've seen in the Design Patterns books I've looked at.

I know the language. I've read a book. - _Madmatt

Member 96

Could not agree more, but books are not the way to go these days.

There is no failure only feedback

Ian Shlasko

Mark Nischalke wrote:

I can't recall any book making such a claim. Could be interrupting it as such because of your bias?

I don't generally read those kinds of books (I prefer brief Internet articles, such as CP), so I'm making assumptions based on my experiences dealing with people who HAVE read those kinds of books.

Mark Nischalke wrote:

Curious because this is what I've seen in the Design Patterns books I've looked at.

Then it seems people are getting the wrong idea from it.

Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)

Not Active

How the hell can you even make any comments on this subject :mad: You are truely an ignorant person and more a danger to the profession, and general population of the world, than any books you have not read. Try opening your mind and forming your own opinion. IMO you have no credibility here.

I know the language. I've read a book. - _Madmatt

Jeff Connelly

Mark Nischalke wrote:

Is this fault of the book or its authors though?

Guns don't kill people, people do. Having said that, I view the GoF book kind of like some people view an album like Pet Sounds by the Beach Boys. Important? Yes. Influential? Yes. Does anyone actually listen to it? No. In other words, if you don't have the book I wouldn't bother buying it. Get a newer book that is more applicable to what you're doing, or search forums and the web, but in any case you can leverage patterns without reading that book.

Jeff Connelly

Ennis Ray Lynch, Jr. wrote:

It doesn't matter whose fault it is, the premise in the original post was that the book benefits our profession. It does not.

You're just off a little, that's all. It's like saying alcohol has hurt our society, when in fact it has brought a lot of enjoyment and health when used correctly. A book that is technically correct can't hurt anything. You might want to say that misapplication or overapplication of the concepts in the book has hurt the profession. The book itself has helped our profession.

Jeff Connelly

Well he might have a point about some not-so-great C++ code. But basically, the book is a catalog of preexisting solutions to software problems. So it's kind of hard to call it "merely" that, since that's what it claims to be, and that's a valuable thing. If it gets misapplied, that's the programmer's fault, not the book's.