CV format: PDF vs Word doc?
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Here is an article[^] on writing a contractor resume. I have also written a couple of others about contracting: you might find them useful. As far as the agent butchering your CV: don't worry about it: they do it to maximise the chance that your CV will fit the role they're pushing you for: quite common. The only time I object is when they want to submit my CV for a role but won't tell me the name of the client.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
Cool article. I've found your others, I'll read them tonight. Thanks. Totally unrelated side question: As a employee I've always included personal projects, CP articles, talks I've done, etc, on my CV as I think they show enthusiasm for the subject which is good for getting permanent positions. Are they still relevant to hiring as a contractor or should I just leave them off?
Simon
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Dalek Dave wrote:
If you get employment, who cares?
As long as they don't change your qualifications and career ambitions... that could be an amusing interview :laugh:
Don't vote my posts down just because you don't understand them - if you lack the superior intelligence that I possess then simply walk away
I have in the past had phone calls for visual foxpro jobs. That is something that has never been anywhere near my CV so some recruiter must have made that up.
Simon
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Simon P Stevens wrote:
Perhaps it's not though, perhaps it really is some custom system that only accepts docs.
I doubt it, but it is possible I suppose. They probably lie to save time, the same reason why they speak at such great speeds. They have lots of you to get through a day.
Simon P Stevens wrote:
As it happens, I don't own word. I would have to do it at work.
Your doing your CV for a new job at work?! :laugh: Perhaps ask for your bosses opinions I have only had two jobs since I left uni and neither of them were through recruitments agencies (both for knowing the right people) - I did have a couple of interviews through agency and the went OK (first one was waiting on confirmation of grades - but I got another job in that time and second one I didn't get as it was a bit too ambitions for my current experience) At the end of the day the companies that will interview you are going to be just as aware as you are that there will have been changes to what ever information/CV they get shown from the recruitment agencies. Remember, you CV will only get you your interview - you have to do all the hard work at your interview.
Don't vote my posts down just because you don't understand them - if you lack the superior intelligence that I possess then simply walk away
musefan wrote:
Your doing your CV for a new job at work?!
I've done it all at home so far, but if they want a word version I'll have to reformat it at work. (Obviously out of working hours) I've spoken to my manager already and he's being supportive.
musefan wrote:
Remember, you CV will only get you your interview - you have to do all the hard work at your interview.
This is a very good point.
Simon
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Cool article. I've found your others, I'll read them tonight. Thanks. Totally unrelated side question: As a employee I've always included personal projects, CP articles, talks I've done, etc, on my CV as I think they show enthusiasm for the subject which is good for getting permanent positions. Are they still relevant to hiring as a contractor or should I just leave them off?
Simon
No one cares: leave them off but you can mention them, if it appears appropriate, at interview. You'll be surprised at how few people (especially agents and HR drones) have ever heard of Code Project! (Horrific, I know).
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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digital man wrote:
won't tell me the name of the client.
That on the other hand is quite common in my opinion. I don't really see why, and I certainly wouldn't want to be hired for something when I don't know who the employere is. :(
I'm not heavy - I'm KIDNAP RESISTANT...
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Don't tell my folks I'm a computer programmer - They think I'm a piano player in a cat house...
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Da mihi sis crustum Etruscum cum omnibus in eo!
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Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects - Will Rogers, September 7, 1924Indeed: my response is always "Suppose I have a reason I don't want to work for this company? If you can't tell me who they are then you must not submit my CV."
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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I recently sent my CV to a recruiter in PDF format. He replied back saying that unfortunately they were unable to attach PDFs to their system, could I please send him the CV as a word doc. My instinct tells me this is slightly untrue and his real motive is that he wants to strip out my name and contact details and reformat it in their uniform style. I don't really want anyone mucking around with my CV, I want to be represented in the way I have written and laid out my CV. Part of me wants to call him on it and refuse to send the doc file. I'm worth a fee to him so he should work my way. I understand he wants to reduce his risk of them hiring me directly, but I'm happy to remove the contact details myself, I just don't like the idea of him changing things without me knowing about it. On the other hand, should I even care? He's (hopefully) going to find me work, why should I care what he does to my CV if it gets me work. Am I likely to find that all recruiters are the same anyway. And even if I stick to the PDF he is probably just going to re-type it anyway. I'm not really looking for advice on what I should do just some alternate perspectives or things to include in my considerations. Typing things out helps me weigh the situation. I'm leaning towards refusing his request, but I think I currently may be being naively blinded by my general dislike for other recruiters’ slightly immoral tactics I have experienced in the past. [Some background: I'm considering going into contracting. I've never done this before. Does that make a difference to the available job market and the type of companies I'll be dealing with? Perhaps many won't accept PDFs anyway? While I've had quite a few friends offer to get me interviews for permanent positions, I don't really have any contacts who will help me get contract work at the moment, so it seems that at least for the first few contracts I'm going to be relying on recruiters. So far this is the only recruiter I have spoken to and he seems nice enough.]
Simon
modified on Thursday, March 3, 2011 5:36 AM
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I recently sent my CV to a recruiter in PDF format. He replied back saying that unfortunately they were unable to attach PDFs to their system, could I please send him the CV as a word doc. My instinct tells me this is slightly untrue and his real motive is that he wants to strip out my name and contact details and reformat it in their uniform style. I don't really want anyone mucking around with my CV, I want to be represented in the way I have written and laid out my CV. Part of me wants to call him on it and refuse to send the doc file. I'm worth a fee to him so he should work my way. I understand he wants to reduce his risk of them hiring me directly, but I'm happy to remove the contact details myself, I just don't like the idea of him changing things without me knowing about it. On the other hand, should I even care? He's (hopefully) going to find me work, why should I care what he does to my CV if it gets me work. Am I likely to find that all recruiters are the same anyway. And even if I stick to the PDF he is probably just going to re-type it anyway. I'm not really looking for advice on what I should do just some alternate perspectives or things to include in my considerations. Typing things out helps me weigh the situation. I'm leaning towards refusing his request, but I think I currently may be being naively blinded by my general dislike for other recruiters’ slightly immoral tactics I have experienced in the past. [Some background: I'm considering going into contracting. I've never done this before. Does that make a difference to the available job market and the type of companies I'll be dealing with? Perhaps many won't accept PDFs anyway? While I've had quite a few friends offer to get me interviews for permanent positions, I don't really have any contacts who will help me get contract work at the moment, so it seems that at least for the first few contracts I'm going to be relying on recruiters. So far this is the only recruiter I have spoken to and he seems nice enough.]
Simon
modified on Thursday, March 3, 2011 5:36 AM
Simon P Stevens wrote:
So far this is the only recruiter I have spoken to and he seems nice
Don't be fooled, their in it for one thing and one thing only, to squeeze your rate/salary as low as thay can, so they get more commission.
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No one cares: leave them off but you can mention them, if it appears appropriate, at interview. You'll be surprised at how few people (especially agents and HR drones) have ever heard of Code Project! (Horrific, I know).
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
digital man wrote:
You'll be surprised at how few people have ever heard of Code Project!
Surely not, isn't this the centre of everyone else's world? :laugh: Thanks.
Simon
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I have in the past had phone calls for visual foxpro jobs. That is something that has never been anywhere near my CV so some recruiter must have made that up.
Simon
:laugh: I get a fair few emails from recruiters still, saying about these jobs that are nothing to do with anything I had on my CV. The funniest parts is at the bottom when it says "Sorry if this job is not related to you, but please pass it on if you know someone who might be interested" (or something along those lies)
Don't vote my posts down just because you don't understand them - if you lack the superior intelligence that I possess then simply walk away
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Dalek Dave wrote:
So long as I got a viewing of it before publication, and could make corrections
I won't. (They won't even admit they are changing it currently)
Simon
Just thinking about most CV's I've seen from recruiters seems to be straight from the applicant anyway. So in that respect I reckon they're just removing contact details.
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musefan wrote:
Basically, just let them do what they want - you have nothing to lose
True
musefan wrote:
...you could however tell them you do not have access to word
As it happens, I don't own word. I would have to do it at work.
musefan wrote:
highly unlikely their system cannot cope with a PDF attachment
I think this is what is grating on me, it just seems like such a blatent lie, if he'd just told me directly what he was going to do I might have done it more freely. Perhaps it's not though, perhaps it really is some custom system that only accepts docs.
Simon
Simon P Stevens wrote:
As it happens, I don't own word
OpenOffice[^] can do Word formatted docs.
Pete
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musefan wrote:
Your doing your CV for a new job at work?!
I've done it all at home so far, but if they want a word version I'll have to reformat it at work. (Obviously out of working hours) I've spoken to my manager already and he's being supportive.
musefan wrote:
Remember, you CV will only get you your interview - you have to do all the hard work at your interview.
This is a very good point.
Simon
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Simon P Stevens wrote:
As it happens, I don't own word
OpenOffice[^] can do Word formatted docs.
Pete
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Simon P Stevens wrote:
As it happens, I don't own word
OpenOffice[^] can do Word formatted docs.
Pete
Yeah, that's what I use, It's just I know from past experience it occasionally mucks up tables and layout, so I'll just need to check it with a real MS Word. It's not a problem though, I'll just export it at home and check it at work before I send it.
Simon
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Yeah, that's what I use, It's just I know from past experience it occasionally mucks up tables and layout, so I'll just need to check it with a real MS Word. It's not a problem though, I'll just export it at home and check it at work before I send it.
Simon
Ah, so you've got a fancy CV then? I bought a book a few years back on doing CVs (I bought 3 at the time but the first one I read was pretty good). I'm sure they had some reason for keeping the CV pretty much just text, so that's what I've done with mine. Makes it easy to update for one thing.
Pete
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Simon P Stevens wrote:
So far this is the only recruiter I have spoken to and he seems nice
Don't be fooled, their in it for one thing and one thing only, to squeeze your rate/salary as low as thay can, so they get more commission.
Surely they want your rate as high as they can so they get more commission as a percentage. I know they are out for themselves though, I do my own negotiating. (I saw an article once that attacked the whole myth of "helping you get higher because we want higher commission". If the rate offered is £30000, and they get 5%, they get £1500. If you negotiate for £2000 more, that's £2000 more directly to you, but only results in £100 more for them, so for them it's not worth the risk of negotiations that might fail for such a small increase. Actually the article was about estate agents and house prices, but the principle is the same.)
Simon
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Simon P Stevens wrote:
So far this is the only recruiter I have spoken to and he seems nice
Don't be fooled, their in it for one thing and one thing only, to squeeze your rate/salary as low as thay can, so they get more commission.
That doesn't apply with large banks and city institutions in the way that it used to: most work on a preferred supplier basis with fixed margins (between 10 and 15%). You are also entitled to know what rate the agent is charging: if an agent won't disclose it I won't proceed. However, another way of looking at this, perhaps, is if you are happy with £10 a day, why would you care what the agent charges as long as you get paid on time? (Not my attitude but I know a lot of people who do think that way)
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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Ah, so you've got a fancy CV then? I bought a book a few years back on doing CVs (I bought 3 at the time but the first one I read was pretty good). I'm sure they had some reason for keeping the CV pretty much just text, so that's what I've done with mine. Makes it easy to update for one thing.
Pete
I've just used a table to separate a heading column from a content column, but yeah, in general I've kept it pretty simple.
Simon
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That doesn't apply with large banks and city institutions in the way that it used to: most work on a preferred supplier basis with fixed margins (between 10 and 15%). You are also entitled to know what rate the agent is charging: if an agent won't disclose it I won't proceed. However, another way of looking at this, perhaps, is if you are happy with £10 a day, why would you care what the agent charges as long as you get paid on time? (Not my attitude but I know a lot of people who do think that way)
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
digital man wrote:
is if you are happy with £10 a day
Can you put me in touch with the agency this is the type of rate I'm looking for ;)
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digital man wrote:
is if you are happy with £10 a day
Can you put me in touch with the agency this is the type of rate I'm looking for ;)
I saw it first. ;P
Simon