I HATE .NET
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Why is it that I spend more time f*cking around trying to figure out how to do something that should be f*cking simple, like making a control's background transparent, than ACTUAL TIME WRITING CODE!!! And that's just one example! A few days ago, I spend the whole GDF'ing day figuring out how to tell what cell on a listcontrol the user clicked on. NEVER MIND showing just that cell, which is a CUSTOM CONTROL, I just wanted to know which GD cell. And WORSE, the only example I could find WASN'T ON CODE PROJECT!!! And the way you do it is ASSININE. Obviously, Microsoft has developed a tool that causes every programmer (or maybe just ME) to come to a grinding halt when trying to do anything intelligent, which is probably what they want in the overall scheme of things. OK. I'm done now. Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
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Why is it that I spend more time f*cking around trying to figure out how to do something that should be f*cking simple, like making a control's background transparent, than ACTUAL TIME WRITING CODE!!! And that's just one example! A few days ago, I spend the whole GDF'ing day figuring out how to tell what cell on a listcontrol the user clicked on. NEVER MIND showing just that cell, which is a CUSTOM CONTROL, I just wanted to know which GD cell. And WORSE, the only example I could find WASN'T ON CODE PROJECT!!! And the way you do it is ASSININE. Obviously, Microsoft has developed a tool that causes every programmer (or maybe just ME) to come to a grinding halt when trying to do anything intelligent, which is probably what they want in the overall scheme of things. OK. I'm done now. Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
You obviously need knowledge/control over the .NET framework libraries. use Anakrino. I agree partially what you say. When you come to C# from C++, you believe you are treated like a VB programmer : you are allowed to drag & drop objects on a form, use the VB properties window, double-click on stuff to generate so-called magical wrappers, and stuff. All of this is way out of control, and way 100% proprietary. There is also a high concern about the job skills : all of a sudden, your 10-something years of C++ look like void. i would recommend to buy a couple of books, help yourself with the right source code and tools (sscli, anakrino), and make sure to have a good set of entry points (people, web sites, ...). at the moment, there a thing which indeed is a torture to me, and i can't see an end to it. That's DllImport. In fact, that's exactly the same stuff than "Declare Lib" statement in VB. there is no determinism when trying to find appropriate type mapping in the method parameters, and you could puke around that for years. i believe the first person to release a DllImport debugger is going to see the smell of dollars :rolleyes:
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You obviously need knowledge/control over the .NET framework libraries. use Anakrino. I agree partially what you say. When you come to C# from C++, you believe you are treated like a VB programmer : you are allowed to drag & drop objects on a form, use the VB properties window, double-click on stuff to generate so-called magical wrappers, and stuff. All of this is way out of control, and way 100% proprietary. There is also a high concern about the job skills : all of a sudden, your 10-something years of C++ look like void. i would recommend to buy a couple of books, help yourself with the right source code and tools (sscli, anakrino), and make sure to have a good set of entry points (people, web sites, ...). at the moment, there a thing which indeed is a torture to me, and i can't see an end to it. That's DllImport. In fact, that's exactly the same stuff than "Declare Lib" statement in VB. there is no determinism when trying to find appropriate type mapping in the method parameters, and you could puke around that for years. i believe the first person to release a DllImport debugger is going to see the smell of dollars :rolleyes:
Well, thank you! Anakrino is great and much more user friendly than thousands of files in the Rotor (sscli) download (but I'm sure that will be useful too--I forgot about that). And I agree, DllImport is quite the kludge to provide support for things that .NET doesn't natively support yet. Is that the tradeoff between platform specific and not? I see (using Anakrino!) that there's lots of unmanaged code calls embedded in the .NET stuff. Wonder what to make of that. Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
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You obviously need knowledge/control over the .NET framework libraries. use Anakrino. I agree partially what you say. When you come to C# from C++, you believe you are treated like a VB programmer : you are allowed to drag & drop objects on a form, use the VB properties window, double-click on stuff to generate so-called magical wrappers, and stuff. All of this is way out of control, and way 100% proprietary. There is also a high concern about the job skills : all of a sudden, your 10-something years of C++ look like void. i would recommend to buy a couple of books, help yourself with the right source code and tools (sscli, anakrino), and make sure to have a good set of entry points (people, web sites, ...). at the moment, there a thing which indeed is a torture to me, and i can't see an end to it. That's DllImport. In fact, that's exactly the same stuff than "Declare Lib" statement in VB. there is no determinism when trying to find appropriate type mapping in the method parameters, and you could puke around that for years. i believe the first person to release a DllImport debugger is going to see the smell of dollars :rolleyes:
Well, thank you! Anakrino is great and much more user friendly than thousands of files in the Rotor (sscli) download (but I'm sure that will be useful too--I forgot about that). And I agree, DllImport is quite the kludge to provide support for things that .NET doesn't natively support yet. Is that the tradeoff between platform specific and not? I see (using Anakrino!) that there's lots of unmanaged code calls embedded in the .NET stuff. Wonder what to make of that. Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
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You obviously need knowledge/control over the .NET framework libraries. use Anakrino. I agree partially what you say. When you come to C# from C++, you believe you are treated like a VB programmer : you are allowed to drag & drop objects on a form, use the VB properties window, double-click on stuff to generate so-called magical wrappers, and stuff. All of this is way out of control, and way 100% proprietary. There is also a high concern about the job skills : all of a sudden, your 10-something years of C++ look like void. i would recommend to buy a couple of books, help yourself with the right source code and tools (sscli, anakrino), and make sure to have a good set of entry points (people, web sites, ...). at the moment, there a thing which indeed is a torture to me, and i can't see an end to it. That's DllImport. In fact, that's exactly the same stuff than "Declare Lib" statement in VB. there is no determinism when trying to find appropriate type mapping in the method parameters, and you could puke around that for years. i believe the first person to release a DllImport debugger is going to see the smell of dollars :rolleyes:
Well, thank you! Anakrino is great and much more user friendly than thousands of files in the Rotor (sscli) download (but I'm sure that will be useful too--I forgot about that). And I agree, DllImport is quite the kludge to provide support for things that .NET doesn't natively support yet. Is that the tradeoff between platform specific and not? I see (using Anakrino!) that there's lots of unmanaged code calls embedded in the .NET stuff. Wonder what to make of that. Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
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Well, thank you! Anakrino is great and much more user friendly than thousands of files in the Rotor (sscli) download (but I'm sure that will be useful too--I forgot about that). And I agree, DllImport is quite the kludge to provide support for things that .NET doesn't natively support yet. Is that the tradeoff between platform specific and not? I see (using Anakrino!) that there's lots of unmanaged code calls embedded in the .NET stuff. Wonder what to make of that. Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Marc Clifton wrote: Well, thank you! Anakrino is great and much more user friendly than thousands of files in the Rotor (sscli) download (but I'm sure that will be useful too--I forgot about that). True, but they have not the same purpose. sscli is the actual implementation of the virtual machine itself (even if that's not exactly the same codebase than the redist dotnet stuff), ie GC, CLI, CTS, CLR, not the assemblies. Looks amazingly hard to understand ar first sight, but after a couple hours, and a few abreviations learned, you'll discover more and more about the horse there! Anakrino disassembles assemblies to C# and MC++. And it's a great way to see how for instance the Windows.Forms is coded, etc. With this tool, you are in fact able to make a link between your knowledge of the WIN32 API, and all the new "feature wrapper" classes. A fact of the .NET framework is that it always relies on lower-level native calls for practically anything in the end. As you can see, the only difference in the end with raw WIN32 code is that the code is try/catched. Exceptions are either completely trapped, or raised to the higher application logic, thus your C# code (or vb.NET, ...). The trouble with DllImport is that, from what I see in sscli, there is no possibility of hooking technique there, and (may be have not seen everything yet) there is no tracing of what's going on either. So it's virtually impossible to know why the translation between a managed type and unmanaged type produces an invoke failure or not, and figure out why.