Nearly ideal human diet
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It's not vegetarian, vegan or SAD (Standard American Diet). Those diets are survivable, but people don't thrive on them. I've done my own one sample experiment for the past year and a half. I'm stronger, leaner, think more clearly, my wife even thinks I smell better eating primal. Here's what it is: primal eating[^]. There are a few approaches to get to the same place, one is looking at human diets before agriculture when people were taller stronger and fitter than even modern day man. Another is just looking at nutrient vs. calories in food picking a cut off and dropping off the low performers. Another is getting into all the effects food has on your body, insulin spikes, leaky gut, allergies etc. and cutting out foods that have some pretty negative side effects that wear down the body over time. It all ends up roughly in the same place. Please shoot it down and if you can't you might want to give it a try.
Curvature of the Mind now with 3D
I'm not shooting it down, but I do have some ideas about this. I have come across it in prior readings on diets.
Andy Brummer wrote:
one is looking at human diets before agriculture when people were taller stronger and fitter than even modern day man.
First, where do you get taller from? I've only heard the contrary regarding pre ag humans. I think that primal man was stronger and fitter because he was constantly searching and hunting for food. You can't claim that the diet produced the physique when it was more likely the means of attaining the food that produced the physique. Also, before agriculture, man probably consumed less calories than modern man, so I would say much of the dietary benefits can be attributed to the low caloric intake and moderate to heavy exercise. In general, I do agree with the benefits of eliminating diary and other processed foods though. As Jack Lelanne put it: If man made it, don't eat it. Honestly I feel like Jack started this diet without giving it a gimickey name. I will disclose that I'm a vegetarian, but would eat meat if needed. However, if I were to eat meat I would only eat game meat, and I would prefer to kill it myself. In general I see value to the diet, I just had an issue with some of the claims.
"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!" — Hunter S. Thompson
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So do you eat things like crackers and chips then?
That's called seagull management (or sometimes pigeon management)... Fly in, flap your arms and squawk a lot, crap all over everything and fly out again... by _Damian S_
No, I stay well away from most grains and beans. I'll have potatoes or white rice every once in a while but not often.
Curvature of the Mind now with 3D
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I'm not shooting it down, but I do have some ideas about this. I have come across it in prior readings on diets.
Andy Brummer wrote:
one is looking at human diets before agriculture when people were taller stronger and fitter than even modern day man.
First, where do you get taller from? I've only heard the contrary regarding pre ag humans. I think that primal man was stronger and fitter because he was constantly searching and hunting for food. You can't claim that the diet produced the physique when it was more likely the means of attaining the food that produced the physique. Also, before agriculture, man probably consumed less calories than modern man, so I would say much of the dietary benefits can be attributed to the low caloric intake and moderate to heavy exercise. In general, I do agree with the benefits of eliminating diary and other processed foods though. As Jack Lelanne put it: If man made it, don't eat it. Honestly I feel like Jack started this diet without giving it a gimickey name. I will disclose that I'm a vegetarian, but would eat meat if needed. However, if I were to eat meat I would only eat game meat, and I would prefer to kill it myself. In general I see value to the diet, I just had an issue with some of the claims.
"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!" — Hunter S. Thompson
wizardzz wrote:
First, where do you get taller from? I've only heard the contrary regarding pre ag humans.
There is a lot of bias in that direction but very little evidence to back it up. paleo diet counter arguments[^] Before agriculture man worked an average of 20 hours a week for food. The rest of the time was hanging out. That's pretty common with hunter gatherer societies the world over. They also ate roughly 300 different kinds of plants depending on location, so their diet was much more varied than ours is, even with the modern supermarket.
wizardzz wrote:
I will disclose that I'm a vegetarian, but would eat meat if needed. However, if I were to eat meat I would only eat game meat, and I would prefer to kill it myself.
That is the best kind, and what I strive to afford. I buy most of my meat from pasture raised animals at farmer's markets for a number of reasons: Health, treatment of the animals, ecology. I haven't gone hunting, but I'm starting to consider it as an option. I love the wild hogs we get around here.
wizardzz wrote:
In general I see value to the diet, I just had an issue with some of the claims.
I hear that. Most of the information is from guys that are selling it with books and programs and all that crap. I wouldn't even bring it up if I didn't see the benefit and hadn't looked at the research behind it. I really think a lot of the information is going to slowly sink into the mainstream.
wizardzz wrote:
Honestly I feel like Jack started this diet without giving it a gimickey name.
His recommendations were very similar, but he promoted whole grains and more fruit, but there is a lot of overlap.
Curvature of the Mind now with 3D
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wizardzz wrote:
First, where do you get taller from? I've only heard the contrary regarding pre ag humans.
There is a lot of bias in that direction but very little evidence to back it up. paleo diet counter arguments[^] Before agriculture man worked an average of 20 hours a week for food. The rest of the time was hanging out. That's pretty common with hunter gatherer societies the world over. They also ate roughly 300 different kinds of plants depending on location, so their diet was much more varied than ours is, even with the modern supermarket.
wizardzz wrote:
I will disclose that I'm a vegetarian, but would eat meat if needed. However, if I were to eat meat I would only eat game meat, and I would prefer to kill it myself.
That is the best kind, and what I strive to afford. I buy most of my meat from pasture raised animals at farmer's markets for a number of reasons: Health, treatment of the animals, ecology. I haven't gone hunting, but I'm starting to consider it as an option. I love the wild hogs we get around here.
wizardzz wrote:
In general I see value to the diet, I just had an issue with some of the claims.
I hear that. Most of the information is from guys that are selling it with books and programs and all that crap. I wouldn't even bring it up if I didn't see the benefit and hadn't looked at the research behind it. I really think a lot of the information is going to slowly sink into the mainstream.
wizardzz wrote:
Honestly I feel like Jack started this diet without giving it a gimickey name.
His recommendations were very similar, but he promoted whole grains and more fruit, but there is a lot of overlap.
Curvature of the Mind now with 3D
Andy Brummer wrote:
20 hours a week for food
That's more exercise than I get and probably 20 more hours than most modern men.
"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!" — Hunter S. Thompson
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It's not vegetarian, vegan or SAD (Standard American Diet). Those diets are survivable, but people don't thrive on them. I've done my own one sample experiment for the past year and a half. I'm stronger, leaner, think more clearly, my wife even thinks I smell better eating primal. Here's what it is: primal eating[^]. There are a few approaches to get to the same place, one is looking at human diets before agriculture when people were taller stronger and fitter than even modern day man. Another is just looking at nutrient vs. calories in food picking a cut off and dropping off the low performers. Another is getting into all the effects food has on your body, insulin spikes, leaky gut, allergies etc. and cutting out foods that have some pretty negative side effects that wear down the body over time. It all ends up roughly in the same place. Please shoot it down and if you can't you might want to give it a try.
Curvature of the Mind now with 3D
So you recommend eating ideal humans? Sounds most interesting than the grapefruit diet.
Where there's sacrifice, there's someone collecting the sacrificial offerings. Where there's service, there is someone being served. The man who speaks to you of sacrifice is speaking of slaves and masters, and intends to be the master. ~ Ayn Rand
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So you recommend eating ideal humans? Sounds most interesting than the grapefruit diet.
Where there's sacrifice, there's someone collecting the sacrificial offerings. Where there's service, there is someone being served. The man who speaks to you of sacrifice is speaking of slaves and masters, and intends to be the master. ~ Ayn Rand
No, just nearly ideal, can't you read?
Curvature of the Mind now with 3D
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No, just nearly ideal, can't you read?
Curvature of the Mind now with 3D
Andy Brummer wrote:
No, just nearly ideal, can't you read?
Oh good! There are a lot more of those around. I suppose a nearly ideal human on roller blades would be considered meals on wheels?
Where there's sacrifice, there's someone collecting the sacrificial offerings. Where there's service, there is someone being served. The man who speaks to you of sacrifice is speaking of slaves and masters, and intends to be the master. ~ Ayn Rand
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The only time I disagree with you Dave is when you you get an argument from me so its not all the time. :) Dont worry, its not personal, your wits just need a bit of sharpening up on occasion. ;) And yes, I *try* to stick to the med diet. In fact made a rather nice pasella last night, but with refined rice (it really wouldnt be the same with brown). Actually, talking of which, and knowing you are a good cook, for me, one of the secrets of good cooking is to use real sea salt, the gret stuff. (I use Carmargue sea salt). You can use it in large quantities and you never get the chemical / metalis taste of ordinary salt, you just get a compex depth of flavour. Check it out, you will be surprised I think.
"If climate has not "tipped" in over 4 billion years it's not going to tip now due to mankind." Richard S. Lindzen, Atmospheric Physicist, IPCC "It does not matter who you are, or how smart you are, or what title you have, or how many of you here are, and certainly not how many papers your side has published, if your prediction is wrong then your hypothesis is wrong. Period." Professor Richard Feynman
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There are way more vegetables than Atkins. Also increasing my dietary cholesterol lowered by blood cholesterol levels by 50 points. Meat vs. fish and olive oil is a false dichotomy. The real distinction that needs to be made is between Omega-6 and Omega-3. Farm raised fish still has a pretty high Omega-6 content, where wild fish is closer to an ideal 50/50 ratio. The same with pastured and grass fed animals. I eat plenty of butter and bacon. Swap out sweet potatoes for regular and I'm good to go.
Curvature of the Mind now with 3D
Andy Brummer wrote:
There are way more vegetables than Atkins.
Thats good. Cholesterol is a funny thing. I dont avoid fats at all. I dont ext them excessively, but I use butter and cream in cooking alot, but my blood cholesteroll was bang on normal last time it was checked. Perhaps its because I use a lot of olive oil too, like a lot. I often do parmagiana di melanzani, and roast red peppers filled with just olive oil, anchiovies, garlic and tomato. Its swimming in oil. The parmagiana's aubergines soak up a lot of oil too when fried. I probably use a liter a month easilly.
"If climate has not "tipped" in over 4 billion years it's not going to tip now due to mankind." Richard S. Lindzen, Atmospheric Physicist, IPCC "It does not matter who you are, or how smart you are, or what title you have, or how many of you here are, and certainly not how many papers your side has published, if your prediction is wrong then your hypothesis is wrong. Period." Professor Richard Feynman
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Andy Brummer wrote:
There are way more vegetables than Atkins.
Thats good. Cholesterol is a funny thing. I dont avoid fats at all. I dont ext them excessively, but I use butter and cream in cooking alot, but my blood cholesteroll was bang on normal last time it was checked. Perhaps its because I use a lot of olive oil too, like a lot. I often do parmagiana di melanzani, and roast red peppers filled with just olive oil, anchiovies, garlic and tomato. Its swimming in oil. The parmagiana's aubergines soak up a lot of oil too when fried. I probably use a liter a month easilly.
"If climate has not "tipped" in over 4 billion years it's not going to tip now due to mankind." Richard S. Lindzen, Atmospheric Physicist, IPCC "It does not matter who you are, or how smart you are, or what title you have, or how many of you here are, and certainly not how many papers your side has published, if your prediction is wrong then your hypothesis is wrong. Period." Professor Richard Feynman
Well, the cholesterol hypothesis is just that. It's "common sense" that isn't actually backed up by any studies. Inflammation caused by grains, high doses of sugar, and Omega-6 fats which are very common in the so called "healthy" oils like canola and vegetable oils. I use a lot of coconut, palm, butter, bacon fat, olive, and of course lard. I use the cheaper non virgin oil for cooking because of the higher burn point, and good quality extra virgin to season foods. I get my lard from a local vendor. They sell regular lard and some that is a little less strained that has a nutty browned flavor to it.
fat_boy wrote:
I often do parmagiana di melanzani, and roast red peppers filled with just olive oil, anchiovies, garlic and tomato. Its swimming in oil. The parmagiana's aubergines soak up a lot of oil too when fried
That sounds fantastic.
Curvature of the Mind now with 3D