And then they wonder why i don't like school.
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I know how you feel. I'm a very enthusiastic programmer and am way, way ahead of my class. I'm in year 2 of 3 but we're getting the same lessons the 3rd years are doing. The school I'm at has only just begun offering these classes but it's a complete disaster. Our final exam is an internship but it isn't necessarily in the language were being taught at school (C#). At my current internship I use a tiny bit of VB but the rest is all SQL. I'm not complaining mind you, SQL is an essential part of every programming language. Some of my classmates are working with php which wasn't covered at all (keep reading, they're real beginners) My school programming class is missing the following: Inheritance (described but no practice) Threading Custom/compound controls Interfaces Next time we'll be taught will be next year (of school and we're third years). Don't forget, the 3rd years are following the same classes and are also missing all of it. In the mean time I've built a plugins system using all these concepts in my spare time. When asking my teacher about AppDomains, he shrugged and said he hadn't looked into it yet. I'm going to school in order to learn something new in a steady pace but we're slower than snails. My fellow classmates will be DOA when landing their first job.
modified on Wednesday, April 20, 2011 8:56 AM
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This morning I got the assignments in the mail for my exam in 2 days, and it turns out half of the stuff they expect me to do, was never covered during class. We don't even have books mentioning the subject. I first checked with the rest of my class to make sure I didn’t miss anything. They were as surprised as me. I checked with the teacher whether or not it’s a mistake. They mailed back, saying; “it’s not our responsibility that you buy the right books and pay attention in class.“ I have all the books the put on the book list they gave us, and every class they told me to be at. After that reply I decided to stop wasting my time with them and study up on the subjects myself. Just finished up with IP-address schemes and when my printer is done I get to start with Configuring OSPF with some RIP v2 and EIGRP on the side. About 40 hours left before they expect me to show them I know this stuff. I don’t think ill get much sleep tonight.
saru mo ki kara ochiru (even monkeys fall from trees) Usualy i'm that monkey. If you want an intelligent answer, Don't ask me. To understand Recursion, you must first understand Recursion.
Wow, a school that gives real life experience, welcome to what it feels like to be a developer :-)
Sort of a cross between Lawrence of Arabia and Dilbert.[^]
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A Dead ringer for Kate Winslett[^] -
I think people that answer questions here are setting a bad precedent in spoon-feeding answers. Maybe it's our own fault.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997That sort of introspection quickly leads to questions like "Does everyone having their own arsenal really promote personal security?" from thence it is but a short step to international communism ;P
Sort of a cross between Lawrence of Arabia and Dilbert.[^]
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A Dead ringer for Kate Winslett[^] -
This morning I got the assignments in the mail for my exam in 2 days, and it turns out half of the stuff they expect me to do, was never covered during class. We don't even have books mentioning the subject. I first checked with the rest of my class to make sure I didn’t miss anything. They were as surprised as me. I checked with the teacher whether or not it’s a mistake. They mailed back, saying; “it’s not our responsibility that you buy the right books and pay attention in class.“ I have all the books the put on the book list they gave us, and every class they told me to be at. After that reply I decided to stop wasting my time with them and study up on the subjects myself. Just finished up with IP-address schemes and when my printer is done I get to start with Configuring OSPF with some RIP v2 and EIGRP on the side. About 40 hours left before they expect me to show them I know this stuff. I don’t think ill get much sleep tonight.
saru mo ki kara ochiru (even monkeys fall from trees) Usualy i'm that monkey. If you want an intelligent answer, Don't ask me. To understand Recursion, you must first understand Recursion.
That is how they prepare you for real world situations, why should the schools be any different than any other business? :sigh: I recently went through some online courses with an accredited well known school and the tests often either had the wrong answers or were not covered in that particular chapter of study, I’ll still managed to ace the course. I just needed to spend more time studying. Also if you feel that the answers were incorrect, state the question in writing, and why you think it was wrong or for multiple choice questions, explain why you chose your answer then go down the list and explain why each other answer was incorrect and quote the text book page, paragraph and sentence to support your reasons. Pain in the arse? You betcha it is, that’s life. Details, give them details. Simply complaining will get you noticed, in all the wrong ways. I mean this in a constructive way, please take it as it is meant, everyone can have a point of view, not everyone can back it up, those that do can go places.
It was broke, so I fixed it.
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This morning I got the assignments in the mail for my exam in 2 days, and it turns out half of the stuff they expect me to do, was never covered during class. We don't even have books mentioning the subject. I first checked with the rest of my class to make sure I didn’t miss anything. They were as surprised as me. I checked with the teacher whether or not it’s a mistake. They mailed back, saying; “it’s not our responsibility that you buy the right books and pay attention in class.“ I have all the books the put on the book list they gave us, and every class they told me to be at. After that reply I decided to stop wasting my time with them and study up on the subjects myself. Just finished up with IP-address schemes and when my printer is done I get to start with Configuring OSPF with some RIP v2 and EIGRP on the side. About 40 hours left before they expect me to show them I know this stuff. I don’t think ill get much sleep tonight.
saru mo ki kara ochiru (even monkeys fall from trees) Usualy i'm that monkey. If you want an intelligent answer, Don't ask me. To understand Recursion, you must first understand Recursion.
If you haven't noticed by now posting things like this just gives others the opportunity to brow beat you with their truths. They're neither polite or friendly about it. While what they may say is true, things like man-up are about as useful as pointing out the obvious. For what it's worth I'm guessing they left something out(obvious) of the material you were suppose to get or been told to get. Personally I've worked with enough of this sort replying to you post to know they look at their having been through this kind of stuff as a badge of honor not a sign of them taking it up the back side. I always use it as a sign of how things are run in an organization. For example I had someone recently telling how there are jobs that pay a lot but require a lot of hours. I told them that if you have to work 80 hours for 90k a year then your really making half that a year because they're stealing from you. I'd prefer to make a reasonable livable wage and get to enjoy my vacation and not have to think about what's going on at work while I'm supposed to be relaxing.
That's called seagull management (or sometimes pigeon management)... Fly in, flap your arms and squawk a lot, crap all over everything and fly out again... by _Damian S_
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This morning I got the assignments in the mail for my exam in 2 days, and it turns out half of the stuff they expect me to do, was never covered during class. We don't even have books mentioning the subject. I first checked with the rest of my class to make sure I didn’t miss anything. They were as surprised as me. I checked with the teacher whether or not it’s a mistake. They mailed back, saying; “it’s not our responsibility that you buy the right books and pay attention in class.“ I have all the books the put on the book list they gave us, and every class they told me to be at. After that reply I decided to stop wasting my time with them and study up on the subjects myself. Just finished up with IP-address schemes and when my printer is done I get to start with Configuring OSPF with some RIP v2 and EIGRP on the side. About 40 hours left before they expect me to show them I know this stuff. I don’t think ill get much sleep tonight.
saru mo ki kara ochiru (even monkeys fall from trees) Usualy i'm that monkey. If you want an intelligent answer, Don't ask me. To understand Recursion, you must first understand Recursion.
Ignore the other comments. I think you are right - you should be tought (and be told about) the subject your exam covers Otherwise, it would be like doing a C#.Net course and then be given a C++ programming exam at the end which you either pass or fail the course. Which is complete rubbish. I agree that there will be many times in a software developers life where you will need to go out and learn something different without instruction or guidance. But there are so many completely different areas to computer science that you cannot master them all besides the whole point of an end of course exam is to show you understood the techniques and principles tought - so either you got the wrong exam, or you lecturers are not doing their job correctly... or you actually did miss a load of stuff
I may or may not be responsible for my own actions
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Wow, a school that gives real life experience, welcome to what it feels like to be a developer :-)
Sort of a cross between Lawrence of Arabia and Dilbert.[^]
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A Dead ringer for Kate Winslett[^] -
It's called life, either pull over or enjoy the ride.
Software Kinetics - The home of good software
Norm .net wrote:
It's called life, either pull over or enjoy the ride.
Need that on a t-shirt. :) :thumbsup:
"I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by." (DNA)
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I think people that answer questions here are setting a bad precedent in spoon-feeding answers. Maybe it's our own fault.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
I think people that answer questions here are setting a bad precedent in spoon-feeding answers. Maybe it's our own fault.
If you think people are spoon feeding answers than you shouldn't be answering them. Someone had posted a while back about the lack of answering of questions in the various forums. If anything I'd like to see Chris eliminate all the forums that don't pertain to technology because they've all devolved into a circus of nonhelpful bilge.
That's called seagull management (or sometimes pigeon management)... Fly in, flap your arms and squawk a lot, crap all over everything and fly out again... by _Damian S_
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This morning I got the assignments in the mail for my exam in 2 days, and it turns out half of the stuff they expect me to do, was never covered during class. We don't even have books mentioning the subject. I first checked with the rest of my class to make sure I didn’t miss anything. They were as surprised as me. I checked with the teacher whether or not it’s a mistake. They mailed back, saying; “it’s not our responsibility that you buy the right books and pay attention in class.“ I have all the books the put on the book list they gave us, and every class they told me to be at. After that reply I decided to stop wasting my time with them and study up on the subjects myself. Just finished up with IP-address schemes and when my printer is done I get to start with Configuring OSPF with some RIP v2 and EIGRP on the side. About 40 hours left before they expect me to show them I know this stuff. I don’t think ill get much sleep tonight.
saru mo ki kara ochiru (even monkeys fall from trees) Usualy i'm that monkey. If you want an intelligent answer, Don't ask me. To understand Recursion, you must first understand Recursion.
You just felt what an average Q & A poster feels. Only difference is you chose right path and not "Urgentzz codezz plzzzz" followed by optional crying or other emoticons. And one is never enough.
"Your code will never work, Luc's always will.", Richard MacCutchan[^]
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This morning I got the assignments in the mail for my exam in 2 days, and it turns out half of the stuff they expect me to do, was never covered during class. We don't even have books mentioning the subject. I first checked with the rest of my class to make sure I didn’t miss anything. They were as surprised as me. I checked with the teacher whether or not it’s a mistake. They mailed back, saying; “it’s not our responsibility that you buy the right books and pay attention in class.“ I have all the books the put on the book list they gave us, and every class they told me to be at. After that reply I decided to stop wasting my time with them and study up on the subjects myself. Just finished up with IP-address schemes and when my printer is done I get to start with Configuring OSPF with some RIP v2 and EIGRP on the side. About 40 hours left before they expect me to show them I know this stuff. I don’t think ill get much sleep tonight.
saru mo ki kara ochiru (even monkeys fall from trees) Usualy i'm that monkey. If you want an intelligent answer, Don't ask me. To understand Recursion, you must first understand Recursion.
Do your best to skim through all the lessons. Who knows, it may turn out easier than expected. Good luck with your exams. :thumbsup:
SG Aham Brahmasmi!
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What university do you go to? There's plenty of threading in Utrecht But we don't learn enough by far.
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[lang = Dutch] "Friese poort" een ROC (MBO dus). Ik ga hierna wel HBO doen. [/lang] It seems like there are but few who teach decent C++ in the Netherlands :( .
Oh ok. There should be more to learn from the HBO. [lang = Dutch] Ik doe zelf informatica op universitair niveau, dus we leren niet een taal maar "alle rest" en lastige wiskunde etc - talen moeten we in onze eigen tijd leren. Gamedev bij het HvA doet C++ in het tweede jaar heb ik gehoord. [/lang]
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Ignore the other comments. I think you are right - you should be tought (and be told about) the subject your exam covers Otherwise, it would be like doing a C#.Net course and then be given a C++ programming exam at the end which you either pass or fail the course. Which is complete rubbish. I agree that there will be many times in a software developers life where you will need to go out and learn something different without instruction or guidance. But there are so many completely different areas to computer science that you cannot master them all besides the whole point of an end of course exam is to show you understood the techniques and principles tought - so either you got the wrong exam, or you lecturers are not doing their job correctly... or you actually did miss a load of stuff
I may or may not be responsible for my own actions
I agree. School is school, not real life, and the pain of real life development nightmares is no excuse for a lecturer doing a poor job. However, you do have to learn technology on your own in the working world (I've never had a class in the latest Microsoft technology, but I am expected to know it), and dealing with other people's incompetency is part of the standard workday.
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This morning I got the assignments in the mail for my exam in 2 days, and it turns out half of the stuff they expect me to do, was never covered during class. We don't even have books mentioning the subject. I first checked with the rest of my class to make sure I didn’t miss anything. They were as surprised as me. I checked with the teacher whether or not it’s a mistake. They mailed back, saying; “it’s not our responsibility that you buy the right books and pay attention in class.“ I have all the books the put on the book list they gave us, and every class they told me to be at. After that reply I decided to stop wasting my time with them and study up on the subjects myself. Just finished up with IP-address schemes and when my printer is done I get to start with Configuring OSPF with some RIP v2 and EIGRP on the side. About 40 hours left before they expect me to show them I know this stuff. I don’t think ill get much sleep tonight.
saru mo ki kara ochiru (even monkeys fall from trees) Usualy i'm that monkey. If you want an intelligent answer, Don't ask me. To understand Recursion, you must first understand Recursion.
So: 1. Do the work needed to pass the exam. 2. Graduate. 3. Spend a year or two to work your way up into a nicely paid job, and also do side projects that rake in the bucks. 4. E-mail your tutors to let them know that, despite their incompetence in teaching all the material on the syllabus, you are now earning three times their salary, using abilities and information that they were not even able to teach.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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R-tsumami wrote:
This morning I got the assignments in the mail for my exam in 2 days, and it turns out half of the stuff they expect me to do, was never covered during class
Oh come on man - what's wrong with you....you're there to learn, and to complete the assignments you have to learn some stuff....isn't that the point? If you expect to have everything spoon fed to you then as JSOP pointed out, you're REALLY going to struggle in the dev world.
C# has already designed away most of the tedium of C++.
I don't expect to be spoon fed, but i cant agree that they give us an exam, that is supposed to test us on what we learned, where half the stuff was never even mentioned. How are we supposed to know that we are supposed to look into the subject. I think i'm missing the point of the last 10 weeks, when they "prepared" us for the exam, they, in their words, "explained in detail" what was going to be on the exam.
saru mo ki kara ochiru (even monkeys fall from trees) Usualy i'm that monkey. If you want an intelligent answer, Don't ask me. To understand Recursion, you must first understand Recursion.
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That is how they prepare you for real world situations, why should the schools be any different than any other business? :sigh: I recently went through some online courses with an accredited well known school and the tests often either had the wrong answers or were not covered in that particular chapter of study, I’ll still managed to ace the course. I just needed to spend more time studying. Also if you feel that the answers were incorrect, state the question in writing, and why you think it was wrong or for multiple choice questions, explain why you chose your answer then go down the list and explain why each other answer was incorrect and quote the text book page, paragraph and sentence to support your reasons. Pain in the arse? You betcha it is, that’s life. Details, give them details. Simply complaining will get you noticed, in all the wrong ways. I mean this in a constructive way, please take it as it is meant, everyone can have a point of view, not everyone can back it up, those that do can go places.
It was broke, so I fixed it.
I haven't really complained yet to school, I only e-mail them to make sure we got the right assignments seeing as about half of it wasn't covered in class. They didn't bother to give me a decent reply, so I'm just going to prepare for this exam to the best of my abilities and make my case afterwards to them in person.
saru mo ki kara ochiru (even monkeys fall from trees) Usualy i'm that monkey. If you want an intelligent answer, Don't ask me. To understand Recursion, you must first understand Recursion.
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So: 1. Do the work needed to pass the exam. 2. Graduate. 3. Spend a year or two to work your way up into a nicely paid job, and also do side projects that rake in the bucks. 4. E-mail your tutors to let them know that, despite their incompetence in teaching all the material on the syllabus, you are now earning three times their salary, using abilities and information that they were not even able to teach.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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If you haven't noticed by now posting things like this just gives others the opportunity to brow beat you with their truths. They're neither polite or friendly about it. While what they may say is true, things like man-up are about as useful as pointing out the obvious. For what it's worth I'm guessing they left something out(obvious) of the material you were suppose to get or been told to get. Personally I've worked with enough of this sort replying to you post to know they look at their having been through this kind of stuff as a badge of honor not a sign of them taking it up the back side. I always use it as a sign of how things are run in an organization. For example I had someone recently telling how there are jobs that pay a lot but require a lot of hours. I told them that if you have to work 80 hours for 90k a year then your really making half that a year because they're stealing from you. I'd prefer to make a reasonable livable wage and get to enjoy my vacation and not have to think about what's going on at work while I'm supposed to be relaxing.
That's called seagull management (or sometimes pigeon management)... Fly in, flap your arms and squawk a lot, crap all over everything and fly out again... by _Damian S_
wolfbinary wrote:
If you haven't noticed by now posting things like this just gives others the opportunity to brow beat you with their truths. They're neither polite or friendly about it. While what they may say is true, things like man-up are about as useful as pointing out the obvious.
These post might now seem like they are all that usefull but i find that writing down a problem or something thats bothering me helps me clear my mind. I can now work on this without distractions. Except maybe the 5 min to check up on CP between chapters.
saru mo ki kara ochiru (even monkeys fall from trees) Usualy i'm that monkey. If you want an intelligent answer, Don't ask me. To understand Recursion, you must first understand Recursion.
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I don't expect to be spoon fed, but i cant agree that they give us an exam, that is supposed to test us on what we learned, where half the stuff was never even mentioned. How are we supposed to know that we are supposed to look into the subject. I think i'm missing the point of the last 10 weeks, when they "prepared" us for the exam, they, in their words, "explained in detail" what was going to be on the exam.
saru mo ki kara ochiru (even monkeys fall from trees) Usualy i'm that monkey. If you want an intelligent answer, Don't ask me. To understand Recursion, you must first understand Recursion.
I think there's a difference in opinion here as to what a course is supposed to do As far as I'm concerned, unless we're talking about kiddy skool rather than a proper grown up uni / college course, the point of the course is not to prepare you to pass an exam, it's to help you to learn what you're going to need to know....if it were the way that you advocate, then they might as well just tell you what's going to be on the exam, and tell you "to get this bit right, here's what you do"...that's not learning. To my mind, you have indeed been told what you need to know - they've told you in advance what you need to know for the exam.... And let's be honest, a 10 week coures isn't even going to come close to teaching you what you need to know to be a programmer, even if it were 40 hours of lectures a week! To be fair, you say you didn't know that you were supposed to look into the subject - you absolutely did know, by virtue of the fact that you are on the course in the first place...it's not like they're saying "OK - 10 weeks of a computing / programming course, now we are going to examine you on Biology".....for me, I'd be spending my time learning as much as I could - especially stuff that either wasn't or not well covered....
C# has already designed away most of the tedium of C++.
