VB kicks C++'s arse
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Robert Edward Caldecott wrote: My brother-in-law was in Rwanda - and he got 90 PENCE a day danger money It's not because your relative was outrageously exploited that others should accept to be f*cked as well. With this argument, you could justify quiet anything, as long as there will be children in China working for 1$ per week.
Ohé Partisans, Ouvriers et Paysans C'est l'alarme! Le Chant des Partisans
The firefighters are NOWHERE near being f*cked! Most of them are only striking because their union tells them too, and they daren't cross the picket line for fear of being victimised. This is 2002, not 1977. And you missed my point - some firefighters have been COMPLAINING about the job the military have been doing - yet here are people who do a MUCH more dangerous job for MUCH less money WITHOUT complaining about it. The way the armed forces have been portrayed by some firefighters is disgusting. You might think it is OK for essential services to strike, I do not. What price do you put on human life Karl? If people die because of this strike, does it still make it worthwhile? This is NOT some noble "oppressed worker vs exploitive management" dispute. You will find plenty of people that agree that the firefighters deserve some more money - but you won't find that many that think a strike is the solution.
When I am king, you will be first against the wall.
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The firefighters are NOWHERE near being f*cked! Most of them are only striking because their union tells them too, and they daren't cross the picket line for fear of being victimised. This is 2002, not 1977. And you missed my point - some firefighters have been COMPLAINING about the job the military have been doing - yet here are people who do a MUCH more dangerous job for MUCH less money WITHOUT complaining about it. The way the armed forces have been portrayed by some firefighters is disgusting. You might think it is OK for essential services to strike, I do not. What price do you put on human life Karl? If people die because of this strike, does it still make it worthwhile? This is NOT some noble "oppressed worker vs exploitive management" dispute. You will find plenty of people that agree that the firefighters deserve some more money - but you won't find that many that think a strike is the solution.
When I am king, you will be first against the wall.
Robert Edward Caldecott wrote: What price do you put on human life Karl The price of the dignity. All the difference is here. Perhaps have I a disproportionate sense of honor, however I disavow nor my latin and celtic genes nor my french culture of contestation and fight :) Hasta la victoria siempre ! ;P
Ohé Partisans, Ouvriers et Paysans C'est l'alarme! Le Chant des Partisans
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KaЯl wrote: This one can't be a valuable argument, please refer to my answer to Mr. Caldecott below. Oh it is a perfectly valid arguement: by comparison other workers should be paid about sixty percent more to equal that the firefighters are getting for the same amount of work. :wtf: KaЯl wrote: Nothing came, nothing come, without fighting Rubbish. The last time I checked we didn't live in a Victorian society - the people in the last part of the last century learned that they, the meek populous, can affect change if it is really needed. We live in a, *cough*, democracy, and the lack of support by the public should show the union fighters very clearly that they ain't gonna win this one. Even if we did pay them more, Britian would return to the early nineties tenfold - nay twenty fold! They are holding us ransom for an impossible fee.
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
David Wulff Born and Bred.
David Wulff wrote: by comparison other workers should be paid about sixty percent more to equal that the firefighters are getting for the same amount of work If these workers think they deserve better, they should strike too, instead of being jealous of others. David Wulff wrote: We live in a, *cough*, democracy, and the lack of support by the public should show the union fighters very clearly that they ain't gonna win this one Glad for you it works like this in your country, in mine it wasn't. Every social progress resulted from solidarity, strikes and hard battles, sometimes deads. The conditions of life for the worker class at the end of the XIXth are well described in "Germinal", from Emile Zola (and a great movie too). About the democracy, you have always a House of Lords, haven't you ? Are you always a subject, and not a citizen ? How could you dare speaking about democracy accepting these kind of feudal laws ? ;P
Ohé Partisans, Ouvriers et Paysans C'est l'alarme! Le Chant des Partisans
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David Wulff wrote: by comparison other workers should be paid about sixty percent more to equal that the firefighters are getting for the same amount of work If these workers think they deserve better, they should strike too, instead of being jealous of others. David Wulff wrote: We live in a, *cough*, democracy, and the lack of support by the public should show the union fighters very clearly that they ain't gonna win this one Glad for you it works like this in your country, in mine it wasn't. Every social progress resulted from solidarity, strikes and hard battles, sometimes deads. The conditions of life for the worker class at the end of the XIXth are well described in "Germinal", from Emile Zola (and a great movie too). About the democracy, you have always a House of Lords, haven't you ? Are you always a subject, and not a citizen ? How could you dare speaking about democracy accepting these kind of feudal laws ? ;P
Ohé Partisans, Ouvriers et Paysans C'est l'alarme! Le Chant des Partisans
KaЯl wrote: If these workers think they deserve better, they should strike too, instead of being jealous of others. They're not jealous because they earn a decent living wage, just as the fire fighters do. Just where do you think the money to pay the firefighters' forty percent figure would come from? It can't come from the employers - they don't have it. It can't come from the people - we don't have it. It can't come from the government - even they don't have it. We can't even ask Europe for it. It can however be made up from other areas of the public service sector, so the choice is now ours to make: which do we no longer need... hospitals or schools. Because one *will* have to go to fund the increase. I don't think you realise just how close giving in to this strike would be to the collapse of Britian. In fact I don't believe there is any closeness in it at all - it is a certainty. Is this not covered at all by your media?! :wtf: AFWIW, the House of Lords is by and large a very sucessful way of running the system. If it works there's no need to replace it.
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
David Wulff Born and Bred.
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Robert Edward Caldecott wrote: What price do you put on human life Karl The price of the dignity. All the difference is here. Perhaps have I a disproportionate sense of honor, however I disavow nor my latin and celtic genes nor my french culture of contestation and fight :) Hasta la victoria siempre ! ;P
Ohé Partisans, Ouvriers et Paysans C'est l'alarme! Le Chant des Partisans
You're joking right? :confused: You must be? Or do you really think it's acceptable for people to DIE in fires because the fireman are striking??? For the sake of a bit more cash??? Oh dear. I think this form of politics died out many, many years ago!!! :-D :-D :-D Hasta la victoria siempre! I have a T shirt with this on. I bought it in Cuba!!! ;P
When I am king, you will be first against the wall.
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You're joking right? :confused: You must be? Or do you really think it's acceptable for people to DIE in fires because the fireman are striking??? For the sake of a bit more cash??? Oh dear. I think this form of politics died out many, many years ago!!! :-D :-D :-D Hasta la victoria siempre! I have a T shirt with this on. I bought it in Cuba!!! ;P
When I am king, you will be first against the wall.
Robert Edward Caldecott wrote: for people to DIE in fires because the fireman are striking At the first place, these people are dying because they are caught in a fire (or a car crash, an accident...). Unless the firemen light the fire or push the victims into it, I can't see how they can be held for responsible! Robert Edward Caldecott wrote: I bought it in Cuba :-D
Ohé Partisans, Ouvriers et Paysans C'est l'alarme! Le Chant des Partisans
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KaЯl wrote: If these workers think they deserve better, they should strike too, instead of being jealous of others. They're not jealous because they earn a decent living wage, just as the fire fighters do. Just where do you think the money to pay the firefighters' forty percent figure would come from? It can't come from the employers - they don't have it. It can't come from the people - we don't have it. It can't come from the government - even they don't have it. We can't even ask Europe for it. It can however be made up from other areas of the public service sector, so the choice is now ours to make: which do we no longer need... hospitals or schools. Because one *will* have to go to fund the increase. I don't think you realise just how close giving in to this strike would be to the collapse of Britian. In fact I don't believe there is any closeness in it at all - it is a certainty. Is this not covered at all by your media?! :wtf: AFWIW, the House of Lords is by and large a very sucessful way of running the system. If it works there's no need to replace it.
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
David Wulff Born and Bred.
David Wulff wrote: Is this not covered at all by your media?! Very few, as probably are french, german, italian, or spanish news covered by yours. David Wulff wrote: AFWIW, the House of Lords is by and large a very sucessful way of running the system. If it works there's no need to replace it. I didn't deny that, I just said it's far from being democratic :) David Wulff wrote: would be to the collapse of Britian The collapse of the perfidious Albion will come when we will activate the laser we hide in the Eiffel Tower. Muuhahahaha :-D
Ohé Partisans, Ouvriers et Paysans C'est l'alarme! Le Chant des Partisans
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David Wulff wrote: Is this not covered at all by your media?! Very few, as probably are french, german, italian, or spanish news covered by yours. David Wulff wrote: AFWIW, the House of Lords is by and large a very sucessful way of running the system. If it works there's no need to replace it. I didn't deny that, I just said it's far from being democratic :) David Wulff wrote: would be to the collapse of Britian The collapse of the perfidious Albion will come when we will activate the laser we hide in the Eiffel Tower. Muuhahahaha :-D
Ohé Partisans, Ouvriers et Paysans C'est l'alarme! Le Chant des Partisans
KaЯl wrote: Very few, as probably are french, german, italian, or spanish news covered by yours. Indeed, but from the way you were attacking it it sounds a lot like it was being seriously misrepresented in your press. KaЯl wrote: The collapse of the perfidious Albion will come when we will activate the laser we hide in the Eiffel Tower. Muuhahahaha Ha, we Brits are not fools! We have a giant mirror in geostationary orbit above France and when you fire the laser all our people will flood the streets with hand mirrors, reflecting the laser beam back directly to Paris! :rolleyes:
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
David Wulff Born and Bred.
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KaЯl wrote: Very few, as probably are french, german, italian, or spanish news covered by yours. Indeed, but from the way you were attacking it it sounds a lot like it was being seriously misrepresented in your press. KaЯl wrote: The collapse of the perfidious Albion will come when we will activate the laser we hide in the Eiffel Tower. Muuhahahaha Ha, we Brits are not fools! We have a giant mirror in geostationary orbit above France and when you fire the laser all our people will flood the streets with hand mirrors, reflecting the laser beam back directly to Paris! :rolleyes:
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
David Wulff Born and Bred.
David Wulff wrote: Indeed, but from the way you were attacking it it sounds a lot like it was being seriously misrepresented in your press. My point were more generic than especially on this strike. I know also we have totally different social cultures :) For example, some of my rights, guaranteed by laws: * 5 weeks of payed vacation per year * 35 hours of work per week * Between 5 to 10 days off per year (according to the years) for traditional dates and celebrations. Disgusting, isn't it ? :laugh: You live to work, we work to live :-D [edit] Being in Toulouse, I have no objection to see Paris destroyed, I would perhaps even applause :rolleyes: [/edit]
Ohé Partisans, Ouvriers et Paysans C'est l'alarme! Le Chant des Partisans