Saddam's a bad, bad man

brianwelsch

My thought of law time limits has little to do with our current situation regarding terrorism and loss of civil liberties. Though decisions regarding this would certainly be effected. I could see that different types of laws may have shorter or longer terms, in the 5/10/20 year range. The idea is that society changes, and so laws that make sense don't make sense 10 years from now. The other thought is that the review process would take up time in congress keeping rediculous pork barreling to a minimum. However, laws may also be more freely passed because of the time limit. thats one obvious delemma. My thought is that on a personal level, I make goals, budgets, guidelines for myself that help me run my life. These are only valid for a short period of time usually however, because my situation changes, and so a new set of goals, etc. need to be made for me to effective live out my life. It seems this could somehow move to the federal level. Actually, now I think of it, is there currently I mission statement for the government? Does congress have a set of goals, it is trying to achieve? I doubt it? Not officially anyway. If it did it could review older laws based on this mission statement, as well discuss new laws with this mission in mind, rather basing decisions on current emotions and politics. Regarding civil liberties, I agree with your stance on line tapping. It seems the current system should work fine for that. Perhaps allow for specific types of evidence to cause immediate grants for surveillance. Thomas George wrote: Once you get to think that it is ok, then it is ok. Income Tax is a perfect example of this. BW "I'm coming with you! I got you fired, it's the least I can do. Well, the least I could do is absolutely nothing, but I'll go you one better and come along!" - Homer J. Simpson

KaRl

Let's try :)

Ohé Partisans, Ouvriers et Paysans C'est l'alarme! Le Chant des Partisans

KaRl

Nemanja Trifunovic wrote: In good old times people Not so old here in Europe. Remember Srebrenica[^] ?

Ohé Partisans, Ouvriers et Paysans C'est l'alarme! Le Chant des Partisans

Vuemme

It seems that mr. Blair has been very busy in the last 14 years if he discovered that information only yesterday... I think that presenting this sort of reports as news is using people's ignorance to justify a war. And using this kind of things as justification means that this war has no justification at all (or that the is better to keep the real justification well hidden...). Saddam didn't respect human right since he got power. He used chemical weapons against his own people in 1988 but at that time he was useful to avoid the spreading of the islamic revolution of Iran in other muslim countries. Yesterday the US and UK airforce bombed some military installation near Bassora because some planes had been attacked in Kurdistan. It's like opening an umbrella in Miami because it's raining in London, but most of the people who hear the news on TV didn't know where Bassora, Kurdistan or Iraq are located (and many of them ignore also the location of London and Miami...). -- Looking for a new screen-saver? Try FOYD: http://digilander.iol.it/FOYD

Vuemme

If he's guilty of this, let's try him in front of an International Court of Justice, like Nazis were, like Milosevitch is, like Pinochet should have been. I think that many people and many goverments wouldn't like a public trial. -- Looking for a new screen-saver? Try FOYD: http://digilander.iol.it/FOYD

KaRl

Yes, it's easy to speak about human rights, but when it comes to the implementation bizness comes first :(

Ohé Partisans, Ouvriers et Paysans C'est l'alarme! Le Chant des Partisans

Vuemme

Human rights are used to justify a war and that's crazy, IMHO. The same people that discover human rights today (mr. Bush, mr. Blair etc.) are the same people (or son of the same people) that ignored the same issues for years and decades. Those self-proclamed human rights defenders avoid to extend their current interest for Iraq to other situations (Algeria, Pakistan, the former USSR, Uganda, Zaire and many other African countries, Burma etc...) where the violation of human rights is more profitable. It seems that people became "human" only when their rights are useful for some economical, military or political lobbies... I don't like saddam, but I think that a war to replace him is another tragedy that the people of Iraq doesn't deserve. They bombed afghanistan, just to discover that osama is more intelligent than their missiles and muhammad omar runs faster than Valentino Rossi on his motorbike; now they're ready to play level 2... -- Looking for a new screen-saver? Try FOYD: http://digilander.iol.it/FOYD

KaRl

Vuemme wrote: Valentino Rossi My Hero! :-D

Ohé Partisans, Ouvriers et Paysans C'est l'alarme! Le Chant des Partisans

brianwelsch

So what do you propose Vuemme? Just because we didn't do something 10 years ago, doesn't mean we should continue to do nothing. Of course, there is more to it than human rights. Nobody is claiming thats all there is to it. But on the other hand you can not honestly tell me you care so much for the Iraqis that you'd wish them continued pain and suffering at the hands of Hussein. Sure war would be horrible, but I can't imagine life's too pleasant now anyway. I get so tired of this. People would rather debate around and around and around about what the perfect solution is. News Flash, folks!! There isn't one! Governments like people make the wrong decisions. But we sit around debating it sort of half-hoping it will just go away on its own. Maybe, if we don't do anything long enough a new crisis will divert our attention, and we can forget all about the Iraqis again. Sure US/UK maybe screwed up, but what the hell has anybody else done, but stand up and say "why all of sudden are you guys concerned? We've been here hemming and hawwing, with an ocassional hurumph mind you, over an espresso for years about just this thing. " There. I'm done. Good day:) BW "I'm coming with you! I got you fired, it's the least I can do. Well, the least I could do is absolutely nothing, but I'll go you one better and come along!" - Homer J. Simpson

Vuemme

So what do you propose Vuemme? Just because we didn't do something 10 years ago, doesn't mean we should continue to do nothing. I didn't say that western government did nothing... some of them (and some large businness) did something to help saddam, for his oil or his money. I think that the problem of human rights is not only an issue of Iraq's government. Western countries have good economic and financial means to help the people and force the government to a democratic path. Promoting fair trade, fair working and living conditions, democracy is a good mean to spread respect for human rights. Absolute respect for human right in our countries is another important way to show how much we care about that. Check www.emergency.it or www.antislavery.org for more detailed explanations of ways to help people and their countries without bombing them. Of course, there is more to it than human rights. There is something else, not something more. But on the other hand you can not honestly tell me you care so much for the Iraqis that you'd wish them continued pain and suffering at the hands of Hussein. Yes, but I hope that we could stop their sufferings, not simply change the hands that give it. Sure war would be horrible, but I can't imagine life's too pleasant now anyway. I think that you should see what a cluster bomb or a landmine can do to a child before you can accept war as a solution. Sure US/UK maybe screwed up, but what the hell has anybody else done, but stand up and say "why all of sudden are you guys concerned? We've been here hemming and hawwing, with an ocassional hurumph mind you, over an espresso for years about just this thing. " The guys of Amnesty International or Emergency didn't spend much time drinking coofee. They publish reports that were ignored until they became a good excuse for the bombing, or they open hospitals in Iraq (but also in afghanistan, cambogia, angola) to help the people and let them know that "western civilization" (as our dumb prime minister stated...) is not only intelligent bombs and businness people. Emergency's founder Gino Strada left Italy on september 12th to go in Kabul to reopen his hospital that was closed by the talibans because he let woman work. He crossed the line of fire from panshir to kabul during the bombings, tring to heal as many people as possible (and emergency has another hospital in Anabah, Panshir, to assist wounded pe