PayPal and Visa are dicks.
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First wikileaks, now other random sites they just don't like. Yes, that means your site, because they just don't like your face. How come they get to financially kill whoever the hell they want without due process or ANY chance of defending oneself?
Because they're non-government corporations, and thus can choose who they do and don't want to do business with. Like it or not, they're perfectly within their rights.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
Because they're non-government corporations, and thus can choose who they do and don't want to do business with. Like it or not, they're perfectly within their rights.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
First wikileaks, now other random sites they just don't like. Yes, that means your site, because they just don't like your face. How come they get to financially kill whoever the hell they want without due process or ANY chance of defending oneself?
Because they know that you cannot afford to take them to court - so they are willing to sail as close as they can to breaking the law... :(
Continuous effort - not strength or intelligence - is the key to unlocking our potential.(Winston Churchill)
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So the law is wrong, as is often the case. If they were doing it to a competitor it could be considered anti-competitive behaviour.
David1987 wrote:
If they were doing it to a competitor it could be considered anti-competitive behaviour.
That's totally off point. If they were doing it only to people of Lithuanian descent, it could be considered racial bias. If they were doing it only to women, it could be considered sexist. But they aren't and it isn't. Occasionally, in the United States, a person, or a company has the right to exercise its own judgement. This, of course, would not be true in Venezuela, Iran, or China.
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
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Because they know that you cannot afford to take them to court - so they are willing to sail as close as they can to breaking the law... :(
Continuous effort - not strength or intelligence - is the key to unlocking our potential.(Winston Churchill)
GuyThiebaut wrote:
so they are willing to sail as close as they can to breaking the law
What law is that???
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
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David1987 wrote:
If they were doing it to a competitor it could be considered anti-competitive behaviour.
That's totally off point. If they were doing it only to people of Lithuanian descent, it could be considered racial bias. If they were doing it only to women, it could be considered sexist. But they aren't and it isn't. Occasionally, in the United States, a person, or a company has the right to exercise its own judgement. This, of course, would not be true in Venezuela, Iran, or China.
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
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GuyThiebaut wrote:
so they are willing to sail as close as they can to breaking the law
What law is that???
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
Exactly -they sold my software key to an unverified buyer who then claimed that their account had been hacked - paypal promptly refunded them and of course they kept the key - the clucking banksters! Why I oughta'!:mad:
Continuous effort - not strength or intelligence - is the key to unlocking our potential.(Winston Churchill)
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David1987 wrote:
If they were doing it to a competitor it could be considered anti-competitive behaviour.
That's totally off point. If they were doing it only to people of Lithuanian descent, it could be considered racial bias. If they were doing it only to women, it could be considered sexist. But they aren't and it isn't. Occasionally, in the United States, a person, or a company has the right to exercise its own judgement. This, of course, would not be true in Venezuela, Iran, or China.
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
The problem is, they have the power to destroy anyone and any company. And they shouldn't. Only the court should have that power. edit: and they've shown they can't use that power in a responsible and fair manner.
modified on Friday, July 22, 2011 3:45 PM
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So they have the right to completely wreck you economically for no reason. That can't be considered a good thing.
David1987 wrote:
So they have the right to completely wreck you economically for no reason. That can't be considered a good thing.
Huh? No, they simply have a right not to do business with you. If you think you absolutely need Paypal to stay in business, it behooves you not to do things that piss them off. That can mean not publishing the names and addresses of American spies, it can mean not selling child pornography, and it can mean not funneling money to terrorist organizations like the one that just attacked your government. Note that they are not preventing you from doing any of those things, they are simply refusing to help you. As an American company, that is still their right. The good news is that no-one is forcing you to do business with them. There are other credit card companies. It's called freedom.
David1987 wrote:
That can't be considered a good thing.
Not if you are Wikileaks. But TANSTAAFL is a lesson everybody learns sooner or later - unless they starve to death first.
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
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The problem is, they have the power to destroy anyone and any company. And they shouldn't. Only the court should have that power. edit: and they've shown they can't use that power in a responsible and fair manner.
modified on Friday, July 22, 2011 3:45 PM
Amazingly enough neither the laws or the universe, nor the laws of the United States were formulated to make you (or me) feel good. Believing that everything you personally disapprove of should be banned by law is not necessarily the best methodology for getting along in the world. I, for instance, disapprove of rhubarb pie.
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
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The problem is, they have the power to destroy anyone and any company. And they shouldn't. Only the court should have that power. edit: and they've shown they can't use that power in a responsible and fair manner.
modified on Friday, July 22, 2011 3:45 PM
There are plenty of alternatives to both, I'm working with one now, visa could could have a contract on my head and it wouldn't matter, they still wouldn't even know I was processing their cards as I'm doing it through someone else. Of course, it costs money, but it works.
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Exactly -they sold my software key to an unverified buyer who then claimed that their account had been hacked - paypal promptly refunded them and of course they kept the key - the clucking banksters! Why I oughta'!:mad:
Continuous effort - not strength or intelligence - is the key to unlocking our potential.(Winston Churchill)
GuyThiebaut wrote:
Exactly -they sold my software key to an unverified buyer who then claimed that their account had been hacked - paypal promptly refunded them and of course they kept the key - the clucking banksters!
That's a bitch. Ironically, that's the law. Your quarrel is not with PayPal (though you can stop using them) it's with the company you think fraudulently used PayPal to rip you off. You did read the Paypal user agreement[^] before you started working with them, didn't you?
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
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David1987 wrote:
So they have the right to completely wreck you economically for no reason. That can't be considered a good thing.
Huh? No, they simply have a right not to do business with you. If you think you absolutely need Paypal to stay in business, it behooves you not to do things that piss them off. That can mean not publishing the names and addresses of American spies, it can mean not selling child pornography, and it can mean not funneling money to terrorist organizations like the one that just attacked your government. Note that they are not preventing you from doing any of those things, they are simply refusing to help you. As an American company, that is still their right. The good news is that no-one is forcing you to do business with them. There are other credit card companies. It's called freedom.
David1987 wrote:
That can't be considered a good thing.
Not if you are Wikileaks. But TANSTAAFL is a lesson everybody learns sooner or later - unless they starve to death first.
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
Great, the freedom to screw whoever you want. What ever happened to protecting the many from the few?
Oakman wrote:
There are other credit card companies
Yes, they're all doing the same thing, I just excluded them to keep the title short.
Oakman wrote:
Not if you are Wikileaks
Or, you know, anyone. They could pick me next. Or you. And there would be nothing you could do about it. It's not just that they're not doing busyness with criminals, they're not doing busyness with whomever they have a personal dislike for.
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Amazingly enough neither the laws or the universe, nor the laws of the United States were formulated to make you (or me) feel good. Believing that everything you personally disapprove of should be banned by law is not necessarily the best methodology for getting along in the world. I, for instance, disapprove of rhubarb pie.
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
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Amazingly, I learned this when I was 3, or maybe younger. I don't just personally disapprove, a great injustice is being done. You will never notice this, but I hereby choose never to do any busyness with you, just because I can.
David1987 wrote:
a great injustice is being done.
Because they are exercising their rights?
David1987 wrote:
but I hereby choose never to do any busyness with you, just because I can.
A grave injustice is being done. You are obviously a terrible man and deserve to be imprisoned immediately.
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
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David1987 wrote:
So they have the right to completely wreck you economically for no reason. That can't be considered a good thing.
Huh? No, they simply have a right not to do business with you. If you think you absolutely need Paypal to stay in business, it behooves you not to do things that piss them off. That can mean not publishing the names and addresses of American spies, it can mean not selling child pornography, and it can mean not funneling money to terrorist organizations like the one that just attacked your government. Note that they are not preventing you from doing any of those things, they are simply refusing to help you. As an American company, that is still their right. The good news is that no-one is forcing you to do business with them. There are other credit card companies. It's called freedom.
David1987 wrote:
That can't be considered a good thing.
Not if you are Wikileaks. But TANSTAAFL is a lesson everybody learns sooner or later - unless they starve to death first.
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
Oakman wrote:
Note that they are not preventing you from doing any of those things, they are simply refusing to help you. As an American company, that is still their right. The good news is that no-one is forcing you to do business with them. There are other credit card companies. It's called freedom.
I don't understand that. First I don't know where you live but if Visa, MasterCard, Amex and Discover all say that I can't use a credit card there there is no other choice. None. So exactly what are you referring to when you say "There are other credit card companies". Second my credit card business is NOT with Visa/Mastercard even though that is on my credit cards. It is with the bank that issued those cards. Those are the companies that I have a relationship with. It is the same with a merchant - the person that gets money from a credit card. Every merchant is serviced by a bank. And only a bank. Now if one bank doesn't want to do business with you then you do have other choices. But if all financial institutions refuse to deal with you then there are no choices left.
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Oakman wrote:
Note that they are not preventing you from doing any of those things, they are simply refusing to help you. As an American company, that is still their right. The good news is that no-one is forcing you to do business with them. There are other credit card companies. It's called freedom.
I don't understand that. First I don't know where you live but if Visa, MasterCard, Amex and Discover all say that I can't use a credit card there there is no other choice. None. So exactly what are you referring to when you say "There are other credit card companies". Second my credit card business is NOT with Visa/Mastercard even though that is on my credit cards. It is with the bank that issued those cards. Those are the companies that I have a relationship with. It is the same with a merchant - the person that gets money from a credit card. Every merchant is serviced by a bank. And only a bank. Now if one bank doesn't want to do business with you then you do have other choices. But if all financial institutions refuse to deal with you then there are no choices left.
jschell wrote:
I don't understand that.
Yep. You are talking about a consumer using a card. I am talking about a business asking a company to process payments for it. When you use a credit card, you are asking a company to pay someone else their money and promising to pay them back. When a business asks Paypal (or Visa) to act as its agent and collect money from its customers, it is hiring them to do a job. They have the right to refuse to work for you, just as you have the right to refuse to work for me.
jschell wrote:
But if all financial institutions refuse to deal with you then there are no choices left.
Then don't piss off Paypal and Visa. If they don't like you, they won't work for you.
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
modified on Friday, July 22, 2011 5:18 PM
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First wikileaks, now other random sites they just don't like. Yes, that means your site, because they just don't like your face. How come they get to financially kill whoever the hell they want without due process or ANY chance of defending oneself?
David I work for an organisation that supplies drugs to (pick a country), traffics in humans and kills baby seals, we need a person with your skills would you work for us! At this point you can excercise your right to refuse to work with said organisation b/c you do not like their ethics, if you are the only person with your skills you can still refuse to work with them. Why should there be a law that forces you to work for this organisation? You see where this is going! I agree with you that PayPal are arseholes but not for the same reason, they have their own grey ethical areas!
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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David1987 wrote:
a great injustice is being done.
Because they are exercising their rights?
David1987 wrote:
but I hereby choose never to do any busyness with you, just because I can.
A grave injustice is being done. You are obviously a terrible man and deserve to be imprisoned immediately.
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.