Anders Behring Breivik
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Haakon S. wrote:
Whether it will prove efficient or not remains to be seen, though.
Let's hope it is. Let's hope that the main contribution of Anders Behring Breivik to human society will be to make life miserable for those who dare try to continue his 'work'.
It won't help. The ban on ammonium nitrate just means people will switch to an other oxidizer, and there are plenty others available in useful quantities. Saltpetre also works great, along with many other nitrates. Aluminium nitrate is used for tanning, and should also work as oxidizer in a bomb. Sodium nitrate is used a food conservative (and is for sale in useful quantities at some butcheries), but also in solid rocket propellant and smoke bombs, and will probably work fine for a pipe bomb as well. There's also at least one brand of cleaning powder that works nicely as oxidizer. I forgot what brand I used. It was something green/eco brownish powder in a cardboard container. Worked great to get a nice big conflagration. I didn't try a pipe bomb configuration because that's just a bit dangerous..
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It won't help. The ban on ammonium nitrate just means people will switch to an other oxidizer, and there are plenty others available in useful quantities. Saltpetre also works great, along with many other nitrates. Aluminium nitrate is used for tanning, and should also work as oxidizer in a bomb. Sodium nitrate is used a food conservative (and is for sale in useful quantities at some butcheries), but also in solid rocket propellant and smoke bombs, and will probably work fine for a pipe bomb as well. There's also at least one brand of cleaning powder that works nicely as oxidizer. I forgot what brand I used. It was something green/eco brownish powder in a cardboard container. Worked great to get a nice big conflagration. I didn't try a pipe bomb configuration because that's just a bit dangerous..
So you're saying that the next Anders Breivik will face as few obstacles as the current one?
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So you're saying that the next Anders Breivik will face as few obstacles as the current one?
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For someone who knows me not at all, you seem quite willing to drop me in a convenient category. We call that a strawman argument.
Haakon S. wrote:
Keep him off media and the net.
Would you like the entire world to read only what you personally approve of?
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
Oakman wrote:
For someone who knows me not at all, you seem quite willing to drop me in a convenient category. We call that a strawman argument.
I didn't categorize you. I made some assumptions - that you hadn't read Mein Kampf or Das Kapital. You are perfectly free to correct me if I'm wrong. The fact that you didn't makes me suspect that I was right. My assumption is solely based on statistics - very few people have read said books.
Oakman wrote:
Would you like the entire world to read only what you personally approve of?
Where on earth did I say this? As users we can give references to articles on the net, or we can choose not to. Newspapers can bring stories, or they chose not to. What I stated is that there are conflicting interests - we are curious about how this monster thinks, but by getting this information we are spreading his message. Which is what he wants.
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Oakman wrote:
For someone who knows me not at all, you seem quite willing to drop me in a convenient category. We call that a strawman argument.
I didn't categorize you. I made some assumptions - that you hadn't read Mein Kampf or Das Kapital. You are perfectly free to correct me if I'm wrong. The fact that you didn't makes me suspect that I was right. My assumption is solely based on statistics - very few people have read said books.
Oakman wrote:
Would you like the entire world to read only what you personally approve of?
Where on earth did I say this? As users we can give references to articles on the net, or we can choose not to. Newspapers can bring stories, or they chose not to. What I stated is that there are conflicting interests - we are curious about how this monster thinks, but by getting this information we are spreading his message. Which is what he wants.
Haakon S. wrote:
I made some assumptions
My first sergeant taught me something perhaps you should learn: Assumption is the mother of all f**kups.
Haakon S. wrote:
The fact that you didn't makes me suspect that I was right
More assumptions: more f**kingsup. Knowing nothing is not an excuse for assuming the worse. The polite thing, the civil thing is to assume that the person you are talking to is at least as well educated, at least as intelligent, and at least as wise as you are.
Haakon S. wrote:
My assumption is solely based on statistics - very few people have read said books.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." So saith Mark Twain, so saith Benjamin Disraeli. Statistically speaking, none of us were ever born. The odds are very much against conception, yet it happens time and again. ;) edit because the filter didn't catch f**kup, so I censored it
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
modified on Monday, July 25, 2011 10:32 AM
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Oakman wrote:
For someone who knows me not at all, you seem quite willing to drop me in a convenient category. We call that a strawman argument.
I didn't categorize you. I made some assumptions - that you hadn't read Mein Kampf or Das Kapital. You are perfectly free to correct me if I'm wrong. The fact that you didn't makes me suspect that I was right. My assumption is solely based on statistics - very few people have read said books.
Oakman wrote:
Would you like the entire world to read only what you personally approve of?
Where on earth did I say this? As users we can give references to articles on the net, or we can choose not to. Newspapers can bring stories, or they chose not to. What I stated is that there are conflicting interests - we are curious about how this monster thinks, but by getting this information we are spreading his message. Which is what he wants.
Haakon S. wrote:
Where on earth did I say this?
For someone who makes assumptions over and over again, you seem to insist on a very different standard when someone tries to extrapolate from what you did say to what you might say. Are you saying that there are some things you disapprove of, that it is all right to read about on the web, and it is only political ideas that you wish to block?
Haakon S. wrote:
Which is what he wants.
So what? To choose to do anything because he wants it to happen or because he doesn't want it to happen is to give him a power over your life he doesn't deserve. If his ideas are suppressed, many people will assume that in and of itself means they must be correct. Indeed many conspiracy theorists point to suppression as proof that what they say is true.
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
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Bomb making instructions are already widely available, or are his instructions significantly better?
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They are significantly better in the sense they have been tested and proved to work in such a public way.
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It's certainly not unique in having been tested.. That is was public and caused casualties does not especially make his techniques any better
No, but my point is that if somebody was inclined to make a bomb, and they did a little search on the internet and came across 5 different methods, 4 by people they have never heard of and one by this guy, I think they would be more likely to go for the instructions by the guy they have heard of, as they will remember the destruction his methods caused.
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No, but my point is that if somebody was inclined to make a bomb, and they did a little search on the internet and came across 5 different methods, 4 by people they have never heard of and one by this guy, I think they would be more likely to go for the instructions by the guy they have heard of, as they will remember the destruction his methods caused.
Okay, maybe they will chose choose his instructions, but so what? They wouldn't necessarily be building a better bomb then if they were using other instructions - in fact I bet there are better ones out there. It doesn't really change anything..
modified on Monday, July 25, 2011 12:50 PM
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Haakon S. wrote:
I made some assumptions
My first sergeant taught me something perhaps you should learn: Assumption is the mother of all f**kups.
Haakon S. wrote:
The fact that you didn't makes me suspect that I was right
More assumptions: more f**kingsup. Knowing nothing is not an excuse for assuming the worse. The polite thing, the civil thing is to assume that the person you are talking to is at least as well educated, at least as intelligent, and at least as wise as you are.
Haakon S. wrote:
My assumption is solely based on statistics - very few people have read said books.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." So saith Mark Twain, so saith Benjamin Disraeli. Statistically speaking, none of us were ever born. The odds are very much against conception, yet it happens time and again. ;) edit because the filter didn't catch f**kup, so I censored it
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
modified on Monday, July 25, 2011 10:32 AM
Oh, good God, Oakman. Never in my life have I met someone so full of hot air as you. Do you seriously think it is important for me to know if you have read Das Kapital or Mein Kampf? I couldn't care less. I guess it is not important for you either, but I can hereby inform you that I have not read any of the books. What that makes me in your eyes doesn't matter at all for me. Now, take your medicine and climb back into your private forum with the other Obama hating w***ers.
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Oh, good God, Oakman. Never in my life have I met someone so full of hot air as you. Do you seriously think it is important for me to know if you have read Das Kapital or Mein Kampf? I couldn't care less. I guess it is not important for you either, but I can hereby inform you that I have not read any of the books. What that makes me in your eyes doesn't matter at all for me. Now, take your medicine and climb back into your private forum with the other Obama hating w***ers.
Well said. +500000
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Oh, good God, Oakman. Never in my life have I met someone so full of hot air as you. Do you seriously think it is important for me to know if you have read Das Kapital or Mein Kampf? I couldn't care less. I guess it is not important for you either, but I can hereby inform you that I have not read any of the books. What that makes me in your eyes doesn't matter at all for me. Now, take your medicine and climb back into your private forum with the other Obama hating w***ers.
Haakon S. wrote:
I couldn't care less.
Your posts suggest otherwise, but whatever you say.
Haakon S. wrote:
I guess it is not important for you either,
You guessed right!
Haakon S. wrote:
What that makes me in your eyes doesn't matter at all for me.
Then why bring it up? I never suggested that you be judged by whether or not you had read a couple of relatively obscure political treatises.
Haakon S. wrote:
Now, take your medicine and climb back into your private forum with the other Obama hating w***ers.
Once again you are acting as if you have the right to determine what other people read.
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
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GuyThiebaut wrote:
From a genereal principial point of view I agree with you - with regards to this specific case I am not sure I want this monster to have a platform after the acts he has carried out.
Then you don't agree with me. But you do agree with those who shut down Galileo.
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
May I quote you: "For someone who knows me not at all, you seem quite willing to drop me in a convenient category. We call that a strawman argument."
Continuous effort - not strength or intelligence - is the key to unlocking our potential.(Winston Churchill)
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Haakon S. wrote:
I made some assumptions
My first sergeant taught me something perhaps you should learn: Assumption is the mother of all f**kups.
Haakon S. wrote:
The fact that you didn't makes me suspect that I was right
More assumptions: more f**kingsup. Knowing nothing is not an excuse for assuming the worse. The polite thing, the civil thing is to assume that the person you are talking to is at least as well educated, at least as intelligent, and at least as wise as you are.
Haakon S. wrote:
My assumption is solely based on statistics - very few people have read said books.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." So saith Mark Twain, so saith Benjamin Disraeli. Statistically speaking, none of us were ever born. The odds are very much against conception, yet it happens time and again. ;) edit because the filter didn't catch f**kup, so I censored it
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
modified on Monday, July 25, 2011 10:32 AM
Have you read Mein Kampf and Das Kapital from cover to cover?
Continuous effort - not strength or intelligence - is the key to unlocking our potential.(Winston Churchill)
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May I quote you: "For someone who knows me not at all, you seem quite willing to drop me in a convenient category. We call that a strawman argument."
Continuous effort - not strength or intelligence - is the key to unlocking our potential.(Winston Churchill)
GuyThiebaut wrote:
May I quote you:
"For someone who knows me not at all, you seem quite willing to drop me in a convenient category. We call that a strawman argument."Let me amend my statement for clarity.
GuyThiebaut wrote:
I am not sure I want this monster to have a platform after the acts he has carried out.
Then you do not agree with me. Because I believe all ideas should be able to be examined by all men. Neither you, nor I nor anyone else should be able to suppress ideas, however reprehensible they may be, or how reprehensible those who espouse them night be. I would perhaps see a need to keep some things from the immature minds of those under 18, but would err on the side of freedom rather than control.
GuyThiebaut wrote:
I believe that this monster has removed himself so far from society that he no longer holds to right to have his views heard.
That's pretty much the argument that those who silenced Galileo made. There. No longer about you, but about what you wrote - better? ;)
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
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Have you read Mein Kampf and Das Kapital from cover to cover?
Continuous effort - not strength or intelligence - is the key to unlocking our potential.(Winston Churchill)
GuyThiebaut wrote:
Have you read Mein Kampf and Das Kapital from cover to cover?
Das Kapital, yes. Mein Kampf, I've skimmed. Either the translation is bad or the writing is atrocious or I was too distracted. I have also read the Unabomber's manifesto which, I am led to believe, means I have already read a goodly portion of Breivik's work. Now you tell me why you think that what I have read or not read has any pertinence to a discussion on whether or not such writings should be available.
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
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GuyThiebaut wrote:
May I quote you:
"For someone who knows me not at all, you seem quite willing to drop me in a convenient category. We call that a strawman argument."Let me amend my statement for clarity.
GuyThiebaut wrote:
I am not sure I want this monster to have a platform after the acts he has carried out.
Then you do not agree with me. Because I believe all ideas should be able to be examined by all men. Neither you, nor I nor anyone else should be able to suppress ideas, however reprehensible they may be, or how reprehensible those who espouse them night be. I would perhaps see a need to keep some things from the immature minds of those under 18, but would err on the side of freedom rather than control.
GuyThiebaut wrote:
I believe that this monster has removed himself so far from society that he no longer holds to right to have his views heard.
That's pretty much the argument that those who silenced Galileo made. There. No longer about you, but about what you wrote - better? ;)
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
Thanks for replying. My argument is very much about specifics with regards to this man and what he did. You seem to be widening my specific argument to encompass a general view. Let me give an example - given your reasoning it would be fine for a drunk pilot to fly an aircraft as their flying certification is up-to-date. Whereas my line of argument would say irrespective of the pilot's credentials, he is drunk and therefore his right to fly should be revoked. To make this specific with regards to Galileo Galilei - I do not know the circumstances of his silencing so I cannot with certainty comment on it. I have already said that as a generality I agree with you at which point you contradicted me saying I was not agreeing with you. In this specific case I disagree. What is it about specifics and generalities that you find difficult to understand?
Continuous effort - not strength or intelligence - is the key to unlocking our potential.(Winston Churchill)
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GuyThiebaut wrote:
Have you read Mein Kampf and Das Kapital from cover to cover?
Das Kapital, yes. Mein Kampf, I've skimmed. Either the translation is bad or the writing is atrocious or I was too distracted. I have also read the Unabomber's manifesto which, I am led to believe, means I have already read a goodly portion of Breivik's work. Now you tell me why you think that what I have read or not read has any pertinence to a discussion on whether or not such writings should be available.
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
Oakman wrote:
Now you tell me why you think that what I have read or not read has any pertinence to a discussion on whether or not such writings should be available.
I asked the question out of interest... :sigh:
Continuous effort - not strength or intelligence - is the key to unlocking our potential.(Winston Churchill)
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Oakman wrote:
Now you tell me why you think that what I have read or not read has any pertinence to a discussion on whether or not such writings should be available.
I asked the question out of interest... :sigh:
Continuous effort - not strength or intelligence - is the key to unlocking our potential.(Winston Churchill)
GuyThiebaut wrote:
I asked the question out of interest
Fair enough. I just don't want you thinking I am a role model. ;)
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.