Is programming an art or a science?
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I must say I was very disappointed to see that the concept of Agile Programming got mutated into Extreme Programming. And I think XP is a load of crap. Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Marc Clifton wrote: I must say I was very disappointed to see that the concept of Agile Programming got mutated into Extreme Programming. Oh? I thought they were the same thing. What's the difference? Marc Clifton wrote: And I think XP is a load of crap. Somehow, just somehow, I thought you might :laugh: At least we're agreed on that.
I'd wear a miniskirt and pimp myself for an extra ten grand a year. - David Wulff
Awasu[^]: A free RSS reader with support for Code Project. -
Marc Clifton wrote: Aye, but here's the difference between architecture and programming. A building eventually gets completed. Software never does. I don't know about that. I could imagine an architect who had built his own house constantly tinkering with it years after the builders had left. Most buildings get finished because there's a business reason for doing so and a finish line gets drawn that you cross. Same as software.
I'd wear a miniskirt and pimp myself for an extra ten grand a year. - David Wulff
Awasu[^]: A free RSS reader with support for Code Project....there's a business reason for doing so and a finish line gets drawn that you cross. Same as software. Ugh, not with my clients. But then, my clients tend to be engineers, and their projects never end. Plus, I tend not to work in industries that actually develop products. I usually program what could loosely be called "productivity enhancement" tools. Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
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Marc Clifton wrote: I must say I was very disappointed to see that the concept of Agile Programming got mutated into Extreme Programming. Oh? I thought they were the same thing. What's the difference? Marc Clifton wrote: And I think XP is a load of crap. Somehow, just somehow, I thought you might :laugh: At least we're agreed on that.
I'd wear a miniskirt and pimp myself for an extra ten grand a year. - David Wulff
Awasu[^]: A free RSS reader with support for Code Project.What's the difference? Intent vs. implementation? Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
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What's the difference? Intent vs. implementation? Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
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:laugh: And you wonder why I posted those two questions??? Because I find it a living hell to work with other programmers. And, with rare exception, they find it a living hell to work with me. But we're full of good intentions. And I work best on my own, it would seem. Boatyard owners are as bad as engineers. I walked into my client's office this morning and he practically launched himself at me with feature requests (he had a 4 day holiday to think of things). Well, it's nice to be busy, especially as the gift giving season approaches! Well, time to put my son to bed. Have a good rest of the day. I suppose you'll actually get work done now! :laugh: Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
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It doesn't matter what other people think about it Does this hold true in a team environment? If you apply your physical energy as well as your thought - it is craftsmanship. If in addition to the above you apply your feelings - it is an art. That is a very elegant way of putting it. Thank you for that insight! Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Marc Clifton wrote: Does this hold true in a team environment? Well, as far as this question concern - it doesn't matter even in the team environment. Treating what you do as an art bears no relevance on your "performance" as an artist or on your relationship with the rest of the team. Marc Clifton wrote: That is a very elegant way of putting it. Thank you.
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Nitron wrote: What about the UI?!?! "If it has a nicer splash screen, it's gotta run better!" (Right? ) Or are you one of those form follows function types... Oh no.. not the UI.. Though UI sells, I was referring to the format of the code.;P
joan_fl wrote: Oh no.. not the UI.. Though UI sells, I was referring to the format of the code. Is that not part of 'programming', or is it more just human factors and human-machine interface, with 'programming' being merely the code? :confused: IMO, if you give anyone a straight-forward truth table and an interface and say "here, code this", that requires little effort (creatively speaking). I'm just giving you a hard time, I get your idea. I just know I spend only about 10% of my time typing code and the other 90% figuring how to best present the functions to the user. :rolleyes: - Nitron
"Those that say a task is impossible shouldn't interrupt the ones who are doing it." - Chinese Proverb
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joan_fl wrote: Oh no.. not the UI.. Though UI sells, I was referring to the format of the code. Is that not part of 'programming', or is it more just human factors and human-machine interface, with 'programming' being merely the code? :confused: IMO, if you give anyone a straight-forward truth table and an interface and say "here, code this", that requires little effort (creatively speaking). I'm just giving you a hard time, I get your idea. I just know I spend only about 10% of my time typing code and the other 90% figuring how to best present the functions to the user. :rolleyes: - Nitron
"Those that say a task is impossible shouldn't interrupt the ones who are doing it." - Chinese Proverb
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Or a mixture of both? and how much in each category? What are your thoughts, and where do you think programming is an art, and where do you think it is a science? An by art, I'm not referring to GUI or web design or any other graphical element. I mean "art" in the inspirational sense of creativity--the "ah ha" experience when writing a nifty function, for example. Personally, I would say that programming is more of an art, but it has the potential to become more of a science. Sort of like being a doctor in the 19th century vs. in the 21st century. Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
IMHO { ((programming == art || programming == science) || (programming != art && programming != science && programing == life )) } Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
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Nemanja Trifunovic wrote: It's a skill. Are you still working with punch cards[^]? :-D
Ohé Partisans, Ouvriers et Paysans C'est l'alarme! Le Chant des Partisans
KaЯl wrote: Are you still working with punch cards[^]? Ah memories. It definitly was more skill back then. :-) Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
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we aren't logic beings Yup! I think that intuition is an important part of my creativity But I'd have more time for intuition and creativity if I spent less time struggling with design issues that I should be handling more logically. Does that make sense? Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Marc Clifton wrote: Does that make sense? Yes, of course, and this is the challenge: being more and more rigorous without losing this little sparkle that makes the difference.
Ohé Partisans, Ouvriers et Paysans C'est l'alarme! Le Chant des Partisans
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KaЯl wrote: Are you still working with punch cards[^]? Ah memories. It definitly was more skill back then. :-) Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
Colin Davies wrote: Ah memories :omg:, have you worked with punch cards ?
Ohé Partisans, Ouvriers et Paysans C'est l'alarme! Le Chant des Partisans
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Everything is business. Even, aah, the pleasures of life? Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Marc Clifton wrote: Even, aah, the pleasures of life? Hasn't the WWW proved that to you? :rolleyes:
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaChristopher Duncan wrote: Which explains why when Santa asked, "And what do you want for Christmas, little boy?" I said, "A life." (Accesories sold separately)
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Or a mixture of both? and how much in each category? What are your thoughts, and where do you think programming is an art, and where do you think it is a science? An by art, I'm not referring to GUI or web design or any other graphical element. I mean "art" in the inspirational sense of creativity--the "ah ha" experience when writing a nifty function, for example. Personally, I would say that programming is more of an art, but it has the potential to become more of a science. Sort of like being a doctor in the 19th century vs. in the 21st century. Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Sometimes it seems like one of the dark arts.... :suss: Would you like to meet my teddy bear ?
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Marc Clifton wrote: Even, aah, the pleasures of life? Hasn't the WWW proved that to you? :rolleyes:
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaChristopher Duncan wrote: Which explains why when Santa asked, "And what do you want for Christmas, little boy?" I said, "A life." (Accesories sold separately)
re: everything is business Hasn't the WWW proved that to you? No, but my client has! :-D Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
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Oops. By "you", I meant Marc Clifton. He's done this a few times in the past :-) I was talking more about the fact that the article was arguing that we should be writing our code to be cleaner, more well-thought out and use existing tools. Which is, of course, "obvious", we just don't do it all the time :laugh:
I'd wear a miniskirt and pimp myself for an extra ten grand a year. - David Wulff
Awasu[^]: A free RSS reader with support for Code Project.Oops. By "you", I meant Marc Clifton. He's done this a few times in the past I saw that! :laugh: You must be feeling the seismic tremors when I jump up in down in Rhode Island. It's just about opposite from Australia (you are in Australia, aren't you???)! Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
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Colin Davies wrote: Ah memories :omg:, have you worked with punch cards ?
Ohé Partisans, Ouvriers et Paysans C'est l'alarme! Le Chant des Partisans
have you worked with punch cards ? I took a Fortran class at De Anza Community College in Cupertino CA in 1980. We used punchcards. The whole nine yards--code on a paper form, punch in the code, submit the deck, pick up the run the next day. What fun. The instructor had posted all the assignments except for the final at the start of the quarter. I finished all the assignments in about 2 weeks. By the time the final arrived, I had completely forgotten everything I learned about Fortran. Thank God! Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
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Sometimes it seems like one of the dark arts.... :suss: Would you like to meet my teddy bear ?
:laugh: Protection From Programming should be taught by Snape!!! And I've certainly considered hiring a priest on occasion! Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
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Oops. By "you", I meant Marc Clifton. He's done this a few times in the past I saw that! :laugh: You must be feeling the seismic tremors when I jump up in down in Rhode Island. It's just about opposite from Australia (you are in Australia, aren't you???)! Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Marc Clifton wrote: You must be feeling the seismic tremors when I jump up in down in Rhode Island I felt something but it must've got lost in the banging of my head on the table (I'm working on Awasu right now). Marc Clifton wrote: you are in Australia, aren't you???)! Yup. Unfortunately. Would love to be overseas right now but there just ain't no work nowhere! :((
I'd wear a miniskirt and pimp myself for an extra ten grand a year. - David Wulff
Awasu[^]: A free RSS reader with support for Code Project. -
Marc Clifton wrote: You must be feeling the seismic tremors when I jump up in down in Rhode Island I felt something but it must've got lost in the banging of my head on the table (I'm working on Awasu right now). Marc Clifton wrote: you are in Australia, aren't you???)! Yup. Unfortunately. Would love to be overseas right now but there just ain't no work nowhere! :((
I'd wear a miniskirt and pimp myself for an extra ten grand a year. - David Wulff
Awasu[^]: A free RSS reader with support for Code Project.Would love to be overseas right now Umm, what does "overseas" mean to you? Having a German lineage and hearing my mother use that term a lot, for me it conjurs up images of Europe. How do you like the Dundas toolkit? I noticed the credits in the about box. Too bad about the source, but great that there will be a free version! Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.