how is this dealth with in your country?

[Christian Graus]

I suspect such classes are no longer allowed. They are now moving to make it illegal to speak of Santa Claus in schools, out of 'sensitivity' for Muslims and Jews. Which is rubbish - sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 Hey, at least Logo had, at it's inception, a mechanical turtle. VB has always lacked even that... - Shog9 04-09-2002 Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002

[Nemanja Trifunovic]

When I was in school, we had to learn marxism X| and religion was forbiden. Nowdays schoolchildren in Serbia can choose between religious classes and "citizen freedoms" (or something like that). :beer:

[Tomaz Stih 0]

Wow, I've not been in Serbia for such a long time. This religious classes are probably optional? This is pretty new? ( uostalom, zemljo, i ja sam ucio marksisam i samoupravljanje :-) ) Tom

[Tomaz Stih 0]

Anyone knows that for sure? It's quite important for me. Tom

[Rene De La Garza]

tstih This is quite surprising, since Mexico is deeply religious country this is true Mexico is a deeply religious country, but the goverment is trying to keep the religion away from public school. Long ago the church and the goverment were like one and the church could decide what direction the country should follow and that was wrong because they only care about their religion and forget the people who didnt belive in that. And now the goverment is fully independent and its better this way. tstih I stayed in Gualalajara. Is that close to you? its like a 5 hours fly. so what did you like it in there?. i think Guadalajara is an awesome city. "Now I guess I'll sit back and watch people misinterpret what I just said......" Christian Graus At The Soapbox [^]

[Mike Gaskey]

In the USA, or at least in areas that I know: No religion in public schools. As a matter of fact it is almost a religion to not have religion. Private schools are a different situation. There are, for example, Catholic schools (from grade 1 through college). There are also Christian schools and academies but I don't know if these are usually associated with a particular church or Christianity in general. There are also private Islamic schools, a large concentration in Virginia (out side of Washington DC, the Capitol). Probably another concentration in Michigan where there is a fairly large Muslim population. There is a separation of church and state in the US. This is sometimes taken to an extreme, but I won't go there for this response. There is also a movement of sorts to allow "state" funding of education for students that go to the schools that I referenced above. This is through a voucher system in poorly performing school districts. In the few places where this is permitted (Cleveland Ohio for one), students are given a voucher and permitted to take the voucher to any school, which can then cash it in to pay for the student. There are also privately funded versions of the voucher system, called "Choice" systems. In this instance private businesses and donors offer students vouchers that they can take to the school of their choice. Typically the student is an "inner city" (poor, minority, living in undesirable parts of large cities) child with a parent or parents who recognize the problem (lousy schools in inner cities) and want something better for their children. Typically these vouchers are about half the cost of tuition and the parents have to come up with the difference. The idea being that some sacrifice is needed to better your self. The schools that seem to be available for these inner city children tend to be parochial (usually Catholic) as they are attached to churches that have been there since the early days of that particular city. I would generalize and say that childred that go to the private, religious, schools tend to get a better basic education. The reason is that private schools can exercise discipline where public schools cannot. Public schools have become so politically correct that the teachers can't discipline classrooms, resulting in out of control situations in many locales. Private, religuous based, schools can also teach morality (their version, obviously), something that is difficult for teachers to do in politically correct public school venues

[Nemanja Trifunovic]

tstih wrote: This religious classes are probably optional? Yes, as I already mentioned. tstih wrote: This is pretty new? Yeah. I believe it started last year. tstih wrote: uostalom, zemljo, i ja sam ucio marksisam i samoupravljanje Pozdrav za Sloveniju ;) :beer:

[Tomaz Stih 0]

Rene De La Garza wrote: so what did you like it in there? That's easy. Burito, Paquita la del Barrio and Mexican girls. Tom

[Jorgen Sigvardsson]

In elementary school (ages 7 through 9), I had religion classes. But they should have called it christian classes. All they did was making us read the old and the new testament from the bible. Not until later (ages 10 through 15) did I have religion classes. At first it was just a basic orientation about the major religions, later on it was deeper studies on. In high school (age 16 through 17) the studies became deeper. I was taught history, rituals and texts about/from many religions. This was public school all the way. I doubt the private christian schools teach anything about say Buddism, which I think is sad. I think it's only fair to present all the options to kids, and then let them decide. After all, committing to a religion is a big committment - it defines you! I found religions very interesting, eventhough I'm not religious myself. I sometimes wish I could go back to my high school classes. I found them intellectually stimulating eventhough there is no science behind religion. -- This space for rent.

[Rene De La Garza]

tstih That's easy. Burito, Paquita la del Barrio and Mexican girls. Paquita la del barrio :omg: her songs are against men :wtf: "Now I guess I'll sit back and watch people misinterpret what I just said......" Christian Graus At The Soapbox [^]

[Jorgen Sigvardsson]

Nemanja Trifunovic wrote: we had to learn marxism :omg: Tough shit! I guess marxism was sort of a religion in countries behind the iron curtain. -- This space for rent.

[Tomaz Stih 0]

Thanks so much for the info. Can you be a bit more specific. 1. What's your country? 2. What exactly was that religion class all about? Who was the teacher (priest?) 3. Is this still the case in your country? 4. Is it the same for all kids or optional? 5. If optional, who's financing it? Tom

[RaviBee]

Christian Graus wrote: sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. Well said! /ravi Let's put "civil" back in "civilization" http://www.ravib.com ravib@ravib.com

[Tomaz Stih 0]

As I understood them they are for men but against boys. :-) Macho y Senor is a song about me, for example. Tom

[Tomaz Stih 0]

:-) Yeah. What a place for antiglobalists to live in, eh? Tom

[Lost User]

In India, there is no restriction on religious education, although it cannot be forced either. I went to a private Catholic school, and there was no class that dealt with Christian religion, but there was a moral science class, that talked about the different religions. In public schools, there is no religious education at all. It is strictly prohibited. Now, there is a movement that wants to introduce compartive study of religions in school; but is being oppossed by a lot of groups; particularly because it is seen as an attempt by the Hindu right to promote Hinduism. The idea is generally to keep religion out of schools; and let the parents and the religious leaders take care of religious teachings. But, I think the moral science without emphasis to any specific religion was a good idea. But, then a large majority of India is illiterate, particularly in North and Central parts. These are the places where there is the largest incidence of religious conflicts and riots. Speaks volumes about the requirement of basic education to help people think rationally. But again Linux v/s Microsoft discussions make me wonder - will we ever think rationally? :-D My article on a reference-counted smart pointer that supports polymorphic objects and raw pointers

[Nemanja Trifunovic]

Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: I guess marxism was sort of a religion in countries behind the iron curtain. They (the commies) called it a science, but it was highly reccomended not to question the postulates of this "science". :rolleyes: :beer:

[Nemanja Trifunovic]

Thomas George wrote: But again Linux v/s Microsoft discussions make me wonder - will we ever think rationally? Don't even mention X| X| Linux X| X| in the same sentence with :rose: :rose: Microsoft :rose: :rose: :beer:

[Jorgen Sigvardsson]

tstih wrote: 1. What's your country? Sweden tstih wrote: 2. What exactly was that religion class all about? Who was the teacher (priest?) Well, during the first years as I mentioned it was christian teaching only. It was just about making us good protestants I guess. I don't think this is the case anylong though since there are many immigrants here in Sweden coming from non-christian cultures. I'm not sure though (I don't have any kids either, so I can't really ask someone). Later on the religion classes were basically about enlighting us about other religions so that we could have a better understanding about the rest of the world I guess. It also provided the students with enough information to make a choice of their own. The teachers were ordinary teachers who had taken theology classes at the university. At least I assume they have. I know the high school teacher had a master equivalent title in theology. tstih wrote: 3. Is this still the case in your country? I'm pretty sure that religion classes in public schools are not tied to any particular religion nowadays. But I can't be 100% sure since it was quite a while ago since I went to school. tstih wrote: 4. Is it the same for all kids or optional? In public schools I would say; yes it's the same for all kids. At least it should be. But then again, some school in "Hicksville" may still be pushing the bible down everybodys throat, totally ignoring the board of school directives. Private schools are a bit different. They are mandated by the board of school to teach a certain curriculum. The private schools can then add their own classes to that curriculum if they want. There were reports a year ago or so about a christian school which taught the kids their own version of biology. tstih wrote: 5. If optional, who's financing it? The state finances all public schools in Sweden. Everything from elementary schools to university. Which is pretty nice - I haven't paid a dime for my education (if you disregard the taxes I'm paying now ;)). Private schools are of course financed by their owners. I think private schools may be getting some money from the state, but I'm not certain. -- This space for rent.

[Rand Althor]

Failing to see the relationship with Visual C++, here. In Indonesia all school have (well, don't know now) religious education. I went to a Roman Catholic school there and they have about 3 hours a week on the religion. This include discussion on what the Church thinks, about history, and when you get a bit mature (like in Senior high) debate on sexuality, work, and how the Church perceives those things. In public schools, which are all exclusively Muslim, they have the same things, but from the Islamic point of view. I had Catholic friends going to these schools (some of these public schools are extremely hard to get into and are very good, among the best in the country).They had a choice to attend these classes or to skip it. One of my friends became a very good ping-pong player from skipping these classes. He had no choice, he lived in a rural area, and this school was the only one in the 100km area. So, yeah.. different country, different rules. Indonesia a very religious country, as all poorer nations are. They are proud of their devotion, and good on Them. I also went to High School in New Zealand. Here's there's no such thing as a religious education per se. They practically assume that you are a Christian of some sort. During school assemblies, they pray in the Christian manner: head bowed, hand clapsed together and read from Bible. No accomodation whatsoever for anything else, really.. but hey.. it's an English-based nation.