Objections to Christianity
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I gave you proof. You just ignore it. Ignoring it does not make it go away. Using you "logic", for me to prove there is a God I would have to disprove any proof you have that He does not exist. So, in your words, "the burden of [no] proof is on you."
Ok, here we go... Look around you. Can you see, hear, smell, taste, or feel (As in touch, not as in emotion) "god"? Not "evidence of god", but "god" itself? Can you take a picture, or somehow record its existence to show to someone else? No, you can't. Pointing to a chair and saying "that's god" doesn't provide evidence, any more than me pointing at that same chair and saying "that's a turnip" would provide evidence of it being a turnip. So if the existence of such an entity isn't obvious to any observer, the burden is on you to prove it. Now if you want to use the old "faith" argument, which we atheists have heard plenty of times before... That "god" intentionally doesn't provide any proof, and you have to believe anyway... That's fine. If you want to believe that, go right ahead. You can believe anything you want. Just don't expect to convince the rest of us.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
Ok, here we go... Look around you. Can you see, hear, smell, taste, or feel (As in touch, not as in emotion) "god"? Not "evidence of god", but "god" itself? Can you take a picture, or somehow record its existence to show to someone else? No, you can't. Pointing to a chair and saying "that's god" doesn't provide evidence, any more than me pointing at that same chair and saying "that's a turnip" would provide evidence of it being a turnip. So if the existence of such an entity isn't obvious to any observer, the burden is on you to prove it. Now if you want to use the old "faith" argument, which we atheists have heard plenty of times before... That "god" intentionally doesn't provide any proof, and you have to believe anyway... That's fine. If you want to believe that, go right ahead. You can believe anything you want. Just don't expect to convince the rest of us.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)I know I can't convince you. I have talked to way too many people like you. I just think it is interesting how you can look all around you and believe it all came from nothing. Have you ever studied the universe? Have you ever studied a seed or even the human body? If there is no God, why do you obey any laws? Why do you get out of bed in the morning? Why do you go to work? Why do you do anything? What's the point? You can't see wind and I bet you believe in wind. Why? Because of the evidence that it exists. Because of the impact and effect it has on things. I'll bet you have never seen an electron but I am sure you believe in them. If you look, you can see evidence of God everywhere, including in the mirror. Whether you like it or not, you are proof that God exists. Instead of denying it and pretend it is not there, you ought to try embracing that. I do respect your right to believe what you want, I just can't understand why you would want to believe the way you do.
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I know I can't convince you. I have talked to way too many people like you. I just think it is interesting how you can look all around you and believe it all came from nothing. Have you ever studied the universe? Have you ever studied a seed or even the human body? If there is no God, why do you obey any laws? Why do you get out of bed in the morning? Why do you go to work? Why do you do anything? What's the point? You can't see wind and I bet you believe in wind. Why? Because of the evidence that it exists. Because of the impact and effect it has on things. I'll bet you have never seen an electron but I am sure you believe in them. If you look, you can see evidence of God everywhere, including in the mirror. Whether you like it or not, you are proof that God exists. Instead of denying it and pretend it is not there, you ought to try embracing that. I do respect your right to believe what you want, I just can't understand why you would want to believe the way you do.
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I know I can't convince you. I have talked to way too many people like you. I just think it is interesting how you can look all around you and believe it all came from nothing. Have you ever studied the universe? Have you ever studied a seed or even the human body? If there is no God, why do you obey any laws? Why do you get out of bed in the morning? Why do you go to work? Why do you do anything? What's the point? You can't see wind and I bet you believe in wind. Why? Because of the evidence that it exists. Because of the impact and effect it has on things. I'll bet you have never seen an electron but I am sure you believe in them. If you look, you can see evidence of God everywhere, including in the mirror. Whether you like it or not, you are proof that God exists. Instead of denying it and pretend it is not there, you ought to try embracing that. I do respect your right to believe what you want, I just can't understand why you would want to believe the way you do.
ryanb31 wrote:
I just think it is interesting how you can look all around you and believe it all came from nothing.
Everything comes from something, right back to the beginning of the universe. As for what happened "before" the Big Bang, which caused everything after it, we simply don't know. It doesn't make sense to assign some sort of all-powerful creator to hide our ignorance.
ryanb31 wrote:
If there is no God, why do you obey any laws?
- Some, because of the so-called "Golden Rule"... Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. I don't kill or steal because I wouldn't want others to do that to me. 2) For those I don't agree with, I consider it a necessary compromise. Civilized society requires a common set of laws, or else we'd have anarchy and chaos.
ryanb31 wrote:
Why do you get out of bed in the morning? Why do you go to work? Why do you do anything? What's the point?
See, that's the trouble with religious people... You need some cosmic reason to continue your life. The purpose of life is to live. That's it. There's no greater meaning except for the one you create for yourself. My purpose for living is to contribute to the betterment of the human race, any way I can. You need to find your own reason.
ryanb31 wrote:
You can't see wind and I bet you believe in wind. Why? Because of the evidence that it exists. Because of the impact and effect it has on things.
I can feel wind against my skin. I can see things blowing in the wind. I can perform an experiment to measure the acceleration and force due to wind. I can use some colored gas to see the wind's movements. It's quite easy to verify that it's there.
ryanb31 wrote:
I'll bet you have never seen an electron but I am sure you believe in them.
I don't have to believe in them. I can perform any number of scientific experiments to prove that they exist.
ryanb31 wrote:
If you look, you can see evidence of God everywhere, including in the mirror. Whether you like it or not, you are proof that God exists. Instead of denying it and pretend it is not there, you ought to try embracing tha
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ryanb31 wrote:
I just think it is interesting how you can look all around you and believe it all came from nothing.
Everything comes from something, right back to the beginning of the universe. As for what happened "before" the Big Bang, which caused everything after it, we simply don't know. It doesn't make sense to assign some sort of all-powerful creator to hide our ignorance.
ryanb31 wrote:
If there is no God, why do you obey any laws?
- Some, because of the so-called "Golden Rule"... Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. I don't kill or steal because I wouldn't want others to do that to me. 2) For those I don't agree with, I consider it a necessary compromise. Civilized society requires a common set of laws, or else we'd have anarchy and chaos.
ryanb31 wrote:
Why do you get out of bed in the morning? Why do you go to work? Why do you do anything? What's the point?
See, that's the trouble with religious people... You need some cosmic reason to continue your life. The purpose of life is to live. That's it. There's no greater meaning except for the one you create for yourself. My purpose for living is to contribute to the betterment of the human race, any way I can. You need to find your own reason.
ryanb31 wrote:
You can't see wind and I bet you believe in wind. Why? Because of the evidence that it exists. Because of the impact and effect it has on things.
I can feel wind against my skin. I can see things blowing in the wind. I can perform an experiment to measure the acceleration and force due to wind. I can use some colored gas to see the wind's movements. It's quite easy to verify that it's there.
ryanb31 wrote:
I'll bet you have never seen an electron but I am sure you believe in them.
I don't have to believe in them. I can perform any number of scientific experiments to prove that they exist.
ryanb31 wrote:
If you look, you can see evidence of God everywhere, including in the mirror. Whether you like it or not, you are proof that God exists. Instead of denying it and pretend it is not there, you ought to try embracing tha
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I know I can't convince you. I have talked to way too many people like you. I just think it is interesting how you can look all around you and believe it all came from nothing. Have you ever studied the universe? Have you ever studied a seed or even the human body? If there is no God, why do you obey any laws? Why do you get out of bed in the morning? Why do you go to work? Why do you do anything? What's the point? You can't see wind and I bet you believe in wind. Why? Because of the evidence that it exists. Because of the impact and effect it has on things. I'll bet you have never seen an electron but I am sure you believe in them. If you look, you can see evidence of God everywhere, including in the mirror. Whether you like it or not, you are proof that God exists. Instead of denying it and pretend it is not there, you ought to try embracing that. I do respect your right to believe what you want, I just can't understand why you would want to believe the way you do.
So if there was no god, you would go around murdering people, not go to sleep no matter how tired you are, and refuse to do anything even though that contradicts what I just wrote? What's the point, you ask? Indeed there is none. But no "point" is required. As for the rest, well.. if you have a theory, such as one asserting the existence of god, here's a basic plan to gain acception for your theory: 1) See whether it agrees with all past data. If there is a significant inconsistency, then your theory is flawed. 2) Set up an experiment that has an outcome your theory can predict, then see if your prediction was correct. If it wasn't, there is a problem with your theory or your experiment. If you want to prove that god exists, that is what you must do. And mind Occams Razor, if the outcome of your experiment is more easily explained without asserting the existence of "beings that break commonly accepted laws of nature", then your experiment is not enough to prove your theory in any meaningful way. What you have done so far is assert that god exists, and list some emotional arguments (in other words, inherently invalid arguments) as "proof". That won't convince anyone, except perhaps you, so I'll do something like that too: And finally, don't let your arrogance blind you. So god supposedly created an infinite universe, then waits 14 billion years, and then suddenly he takes an interest in some insignificant life form on an insignificant planet? Out of all the infinity of the universe, god chose just US, to do a couple of things and then apparently abandon us again (seriously, what has he done lately? allow wars an famine to happen? good job, sir)? As we say on the interwebs, SEEMS LEGIT
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You've provided no evidence at all, as expected, so I retain the only logical position, atheism.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
So if there was no god, you would go around murdering people, not go to sleep no matter how tired you are, and refuse to do anything even though that contradicts what I just wrote? What's the point, you ask? Indeed there is none. But no "point" is required. As for the rest, well.. if you have a theory, such as one asserting the existence of god, here's a basic plan to gain acception for your theory: 1) See whether it agrees with all past data. If there is a significant inconsistency, then your theory is flawed. 2) Set up an experiment that has an outcome your theory can predict, then see if your prediction was correct. If it wasn't, there is a problem with your theory or your experiment. If you want to prove that god exists, that is what you must do. And mind Occams Razor, if the outcome of your experiment is more easily explained without asserting the existence of "beings that break commonly accepted laws of nature", then your experiment is not enough to prove your theory in any meaningful way. What you have done so far is assert that god exists, and list some emotional arguments (in other words, inherently invalid arguments) as "proof". That won't convince anyone, except perhaps you, so I'll do something like that too: And finally, don't let your arrogance blind you. So god supposedly created an infinite universe, then waits 14 billion years, and then suddenly he takes an interest in some insignificant life form on an insignificant planet? Out of all the infinity of the universe, god chose just US, to do a couple of things and then apparently abandon us again (seriously, what has he done lately? allow wars an famine to happen? good job, sir)? As we say on the interwebs, SEEMS LEGIT
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You've provided no evidence at all, as expected, so I retain the only logical position, atheism.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
I claimed that God exists and the proof is all around you. You claimed wind exists because you can FEEL it but you can't SEE it. It is the same with God. Thank you for supporting me.
If I touch my desk, I feel a desk, not "god"... I can feel my shirt... I can feel the chair I'm sitting in... I can feel this keyboard... I can't feel "god". You're confusing sense of touch with emotion, hence my clarification in a prior post:
Ian Shlasko wrote:
Can you see, hear, smell, taste, or feel (As in touch, not as in emotion) "god"?
Try again.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
If I touch my desk, I feel a desk, not "god"... I can feel my shirt... I can feel the chair I'm sitting in... I can feel this keyboard... I can't feel "god". You're confusing sense of touch with emotion, hence my clarification in a prior post:
Ian Shlasko wrote:
Can you see, hear, smell, taste, or feel (As in touch, not as in emotion) "god"?
Try again.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
So your entire argument is "you still do not get it". No, I don't get why you would base your life on a fairy tale. No, I don't get why you need an imaginary man in the sky to justify your life. No, I don't get whatever drugs you're taking that cause you to hallucinate a deity. If you're going to try to recruit a technically-minded atheist into your cult, try making a scientific argument. It won't work, but you might gain a little respect for the effort.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
I gave you proof. You just ignore it. Ignoring it does not make it go away. Using you "logic", for me to prove there is a God I would have to disprove any proof you have that He does not exist. So, in your words, "the burden of [no] proof is on you."
ryanb31 wrote:
I gave you proof.
What: Everything around you is evidence of a God? And: You, yourself, are evidence that a God exists? You mean all this 'stuff' (which includes me) had to be brought into existence by a God?
ryanb31 wrote:
You just ignore it. Ignoring it does not make it go away.
I don't ignore it, I interpret it differently. To me, the great "I AM" is merely an "IT IS".
ryanb31 wrote:
Using you "logic", for me to prove there is a God I would have to disprove any proof you have that He does not exist.
OK. I accept that you are unable prove that a God exists.
Be dogmatic, not thoughtful. It's easier, and you get bumper stickers.- Anon.
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So your entire argument is "you still do not get it". No, I don't get why you would base your life on a fairy tale. No, I don't get why you need an imaginary man in the sky to justify your life. No, I don't get whatever drugs you're taking that cause you to hallucinate a deity. If you're going to try to recruit a technically-minded atheist into your cult, try making a scientific argument. It won't work, but you might gain a little respect for the effort.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)You already provided the scientific argument. Science cannot explain how nothing turned to something. So, clearly relying solely on science is not the right answer. Remember, it was only several hundred years ago that science claimed the world to be flat, or the sun to revolve around the earth. Science is incredible and awesome but history has proven time and time again that science does not always have the right answer, even where there is a so called scientific "proof." It is still limited by man's intelligence. One of the greatest scientists to ever live, Einstein, also knew there was a God. He said "I want to know how God created this world." Now, his view of God is very different than mine; however, he had enough wisdom to go along with his intelligence to realize that there had to be a God.
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You already provided the scientific argument. Science cannot explain how nothing turned to something. So, clearly relying solely on science is not the right answer. Remember, it was only several hundred years ago that science claimed the world to be flat, or the sun to revolve around the earth. Science is incredible and awesome but history has proven time and time again that science does not always have the right answer, even where there is a so called scientific "proof." It is still limited by man's intelligence. One of the greatest scientists to ever live, Einstein, also knew there was a God. He said "I want to know how God created this world." Now, his view of God is very different than mine; however, he had enough wisdom to go along with his intelligence to realize that there had to be a God.
ryanb31 wrote:
You already provided the scientific argument. Science cannot explain how nothing turned to something. So, clearly relying solely on science is not the right answer.
Since there is no evidence, the answer is "I don't know"
ryanb31 wrote:
Remember, it was only several hundred years ago that science claimed the world to be flat, or the sun to revolve around the earth. Science is incredible and awesome but history has proven time and time again that science does not always have the right answer, even where there is a so called scientific "proof." It is still limited by man's intelligence.
Science is limited by available knowledge, and is continually redefining itself. That's the scientific method. You start with what is a known fact, i.e. "The world is flat." When you find new evidence that contradicts it, you replace the old fact with a new one, i.e. "The world is round." Then, later, you figure out how to do some more accurate calculations, leading to a new fact: "The Earth is shaped like an oblate spheroid," and so on.
ryanb31 wrote:
One of the greatest scientists to ever live, Einstein, also knew there was a God. He said "I want to know how God created this world." Now, his view of God is very different than mine; however, he had enough wisdom to go along with his intelligence to realize that there had to be a God.
But he had no scientific basis for that. He had no evidence, or if he did, he didn't bother sharing it with anyone. Again, we're left with no proof. So now you've tried the "What's before the Big Bang?" argument, you've tried the "Science has been wrong before" argument, and you've tried the "Scientist X was a deist" argument... You haven't succeeded, but at least your arguments are improving, so well done there.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
ryanb31 wrote:
You already provided the scientific argument. Science cannot explain how nothing turned to something. So, clearly relying solely on science is not the right answer.
Since there is no evidence, the answer is "I don't know"
ryanb31 wrote:
Remember, it was only several hundred years ago that science claimed the world to be flat, or the sun to revolve around the earth. Science is incredible and awesome but history has proven time and time again that science does not always have the right answer, even where there is a so called scientific "proof." It is still limited by man's intelligence.
Science is limited by available knowledge, and is continually redefining itself. That's the scientific method. You start with what is a known fact, i.e. "The world is flat." When you find new evidence that contradicts it, you replace the old fact with a new one, i.e. "The world is round." Then, later, you figure out how to do some more accurate calculations, leading to a new fact: "The Earth is shaped like an oblate spheroid," and so on.
ryanb31 wrote:
One of the greatest scientists to ever live, Einstein, also knew there was a God. He said "I want to know how God created this world." Now, his view of God is very different than mine; however, he had enough wisdom to go along with his intelligence to realize that there had to be a God.
But he had no scientific basis for that. He had no evidence, or if he did, he didn't bother sharing it with anyone. Again, we're left with no proof. So now you've tried the "What's before the Big Bang?" argument, you've tried the "Science has been wrong before" argument, and you've tried the "Scientist X was a deist" argument... You haven't succeeded, but at least your arguments are improving, so well done there.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
Actually, they're called rebuttals, as I continue to point out your lack of evidence. And yes, I will continue to deny the validity of your argument, until and unless you can present some form of evidence to back up your claim. A claim is nothing without evidence... Imagine the chaos if everyone just believed everything they heard without asking for evidence........ But enough about the Tea Party :-D
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)