Nassi - Shneiderman; Does anyone still actually use this?

Ben Breeg

So there I am reading some of my old college assignments when I came across one on programming; in particular pseudo programming. One of the things that was drummed into us was that you do not code a single line until you have done the pseudo programming. OK, I can go with that, makes sense after all. However, which pseudo programming "language" to use? So, to the title of this question: does anyone still use the Nassi - Shneiderman pseudo programming technique? Notice I changed this to technique, I don't think it could, even remotely, be called a "language". For those of you who've never heard of Nassi - Shneiderman: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nassi%E2%80%93Shneiderman_diagram[^]

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Jorgen Andersson

Never heard of, I learned Jackson Structured Programming[^] in my school in the eighties.

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PIEBALDconsult

Ben Breeg wrote:

you do not code a single line until you have done the pseudo programming

I only did that before I had a PC and only had access to a computer (PDP or VAX) at school. Nowadays I might diagram some data structures, but otherwise I just get right into it.

ied

C :)

Luc Pattyn

I never heard of it, and I sure never done anything of the kind; it seems all too tedious. I use pseudo-code when designing an algorithm, I simply use an ad-hoc language that might look like extended C# with a lot of leniency (I also use that sometimes when replying in a CP forum). I would do that in a text editor, or on a sheet of paper for more experimental stuff. And if I have to, I might draw a flow chart on paper too, although I can't remember having done that of late. Once the design is finished, it all is reduced to a number of simple methods anyway (choosing names carefully), so I don't think I need any graphics for documentation, except when graphics is the subject of the app of course. :)

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Henry Minute

Jörgen Andersson wrote:

I learned Jackson Structured Programming

There's no need for language like that!

Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.” I wouldn't let CG touch my Abacus! When you're wrestling a gorilla, you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is.

AspDotNetDev

If I am having trouble visualizing the code I'm going to write, I'll write it out in comments first, and then expand those comments into code. If it's something more complex, I will use various techniques on paper (pseudo code, diagrams, examples of the result and intermediate steps) to help myself design it. Also, I read that subject line as "Nazi Spiderman" (warning: obnoxiously loud and utterly useless). :)

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Ben Breeg

To be honest, I never could see the point in NS-diagrams; it all looked to tedious to me - even worse when you had to put it into practice. I sometimes wonder if college lecturers throw this sort of stuff in just for a laugh. Flow diagrams, now they do make sense when trying to capture the essence of what one is trying to do.

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NetDave

AspDotNetDev wrote:

If I am having trouble visualizing the code I'm going to write, I'll write it out in comments first, and then expand those comments into code

Ditto. Not only does it help me think the problem through, but then the code is pre-commented.

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Pete OHanlon

My old boss was good friends with Michael Jackson of JSP fame. When I met him, he admitted that JSP should never have seen the light of day. Nice man though.

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Dr Walt Fair PE

I remember having to draw flow charts way back in another century. Once I got to actually programming for real, though, I never used them, but preferred pseudo-code to show the structure and relationships. I recall one job where flow charting was required, so I used to draw the flow charts after I had the code working. My supervisor thought I was a genius, because my flow charts never had erasure marks on them (that was before interactive text editors). While everyone else had erased portions and corrected theirs, I got the flow chart right the first time. :laugh: These days I usually write pseudo-code in my comments, then add the real code. Over the years my pseudo-code has changed from something like Algol to something like Pascal to something like C#, but I don't stick to a fixed syntax and since it's pseudo-code, it's not a real language anyway.

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Mike Hankey

Yeah same here depends on what it is I'm doing. Still use the old fashioned flow charting on rare occasion but like you more of the C# type pseudo-code. For electrical circuits, well I won't even go there as I might get a head shake or two from people like David Auld. :) (I know just enough to be dangerous)

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Mike Hankey

Ah college...slide rules and PL/1 writen on puch cards and fed into an IBM360 (the coffin)

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Jorgen Andersson

Admittedly quite useless, never used it outside school. The principle is sound though as long as you're using COBOL.

Light moves faster than sound. That is why some people appear bright, until you hear them speak. List of common misconceptions

Septimus Hedgehog

I remember the punch cards and how, heaven help you, if you put Fortran's statement continuation indicator in the wrong column. IBM360 - I remember that machine with affection. Later, I applied Fortran onto massive 80MB hard drives which must have been 14" or more in diameter and there was a stack of 10 or so platters to make up the 80MB. Those were heady days of "real" computing where memory was limited and even magnetic tapes contributed to the runtime story. There was a lovely light inside the ICL 1904 called the SAD Highway. I still think of it with affection. We were never allowed to submit a card deck unless we drew the logic using flowcharting stencils and the drawings had to be approved by the lecturer beforehand and indeed, they contributed to the course assessment.

Gary R Wheeler

While I remember those diagrams from magazine articles, I've never used them. Hmm... Come to think of it, I don't use any of these techniques any longer. I just code. Admittedly, it's a rather old-fashioned approach. I create empty solutions/projects/assemblies/classes/members for the stuff I have in mind, and fill the structure in as I go. I refactor this a lot as it fills in.

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LloydA111

Never heard/seen of it. Looks vastly over complicated.

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Henry Minute

PHS241 wrote:

We were never allowed to submit a card deck unless we drew the logic using flowcharting stencils and the drawings had to be approved by the lecturer beforehand and indeed, they contributed to the course assessment.

Of course, occasionally (never in my case, you understand :laugh:) what was actually on the cards didn't actually match the flowchart.

Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.” I wouldn't let CG touch my Abacus! When you're wrestling a gorilla, you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is.

Septimus Hedgehog

The buffoon I had as a lecturer did check the cards against the flowcharts. He was far too anal. We'd sometimes stand outside the computer operators room where the machines were and wait for them to pass the steel tray containing the cards and the compilation report. We'd hastily correct the obvious errors and resubmit the job. Our department was charged for the time the job was passed through the window to the time it was passed back out. The operators used to "help" us by not booking the try in again for a rerun if it didn't cause them too much hassle. Since then I've relied on the modern way of doing application design. It's called the Mozart Methodology; namely, you compose at the keyboard. :-D

Ben Breeg

It is. It's a bummer to put right if you realise you've made a mistake as well. Why oh why our lecturer had to tell us about it I don't know. Even the inventors peers didn't think much to it either!! http://www.cs.umd.edu/hcil/members/bshneiderman/nsd/rejection_letter.pdf

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