All Americans are Terrorists Now
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The Senate passed SB1867, which allows the indefinite detention of ANYONE by the military without reason, without charge, and without a trial. As a sugary sauce to add to this abomination, they are now considering a bill that loosens the restrictions on torture. Welcome to America. My ass...
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997The fifth amendment says:
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury...nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
Don't the senators know their own constitution? Or is there some legal twist I am not aware of?
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The Senate passed SB1867, which allows the indefinite detention of ANYONE by the military without reason, without charge, and without a trial. As a sugary sauce to add to this abomination, they are now considering a bill that loosens the restrictions on torture. Welcome to America. My ass...
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997Does that take precedence over the constitution? And, if you were to be detained, what chance would you have to make the argument? BTW: is that your interpretation of SB1867? Can't seem to find any real information or detail other than some rather odd web sites.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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The fifth amendment says:
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury...nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
Don't the senators know their own constitution? Or is there some legal twist I am not aware of?
Well, they passed the Patriot Act, not once but twice. That one is FULL of unconstititional twists and turns.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997 -
Does that take precedence over the constitution? And, if you were to be detained, what chance would you have to make the argument? BTW: is that your interpretation of SB1867? Can't seem to find any real information or detail other than some rather odd web sites.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
mark merrens wrote:
Does that take precedence over the constitution? And, if you were to be detained, what chance would you have to make the argument?
The Patrriot Act appears to be successful in controverting the Constitution, so I see no reason why this S1867 wouldn't enjoy similar successes.
mark merrens wrote:
BTW: is that your interpretation of SB1867? Can't seem to find any real information or detail other than some rather odd web sites.
Look at section 1031. That seems to be everybody's interpretation of it (that's taken the time to read it).
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997 -
mark merrens wrote:
Does that take precedence over the constitution? And, if you were to be detained, what chance would you have to make the argument?
The Patrriot Act appears to be successful in controverting the Constitution, so I see no reason why this S1867 wouldn't enjoy similar successes.
mark merrens wrote:
BTW: is that your interpretation of SB1867? Can't seem to find any real information or detail other than some rather odd web sites.
Look at section 1031. That seems to be everybody's interpretation of it (that's taken the time to read it).
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Look at section 1031. That seems to be everybody's interpretation of it (that's taken the time to read it).
Thanks: I meant I couldn't find the bill anywhere that I could read it (I'm curious). Perhaps I'm looking in the wrong place.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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The Senate passed SB1867, which allows the indefinite detention of ANYONE by the military without reason, without charge, and without a trial. As a sugary sauce to add to this abomination, they are now considering a bill that loosens the restrictions on torture. Welcome to America. My ass...
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997At this point we can't really pretend to be shocked. The president is already killing American citizens without due process. http://www.salon.com/2011/09/30/awlaki_6/[^]
The Left - Taking shit for being right since before you were born. - driftglass
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Look at section 1031. That seems to be everybody's interpretation of it (that's taken the time to read it).
Thanks: I meant I couldn't find the bill anywhere that I could read it (I'm curious). Perhaps I'm looking in the wrong place.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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The Senate passed SB1867, which allows the indefinite detention of ANYONE by the military without reason, without charge, and without a trial. As a sugary sauce to add to this abomination, they are now considering a bill that loosens the restrictions on torture. Welcome to America. My ass...
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Welcome to America. My ass...
Well, it was inevitable. Fascism will always out. BTW: If you have a darker complexion, you could take a vibrant orange. If you are fairer, though, I would go for a peach jumpsuit.
Be dogmatic, not thoughtful. It's easier, and you get bumper stickers.- Anon.
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The Senate passed SB1867, which allows the indefinite detention of ANYONE by the military without reason, without charge, and without a trial. As a sugary sauce to add to this abomination, they are now considering a bill that loosens the restrictions on torture. Welcome to America. My ass...
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997lock and load, john. it has begun. marshal law is right around the corner.
Just along for the ride. "the meat from that butcher is just the dogs danglies, absolutely amazing cuts of beef." - DaveAuld (2011)
"No, that is just the earthly manifestation of the Great God Retardon." - Nagy Vilmos (2011) -
The fifth amendment says:
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury...nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
Don't the senators know their own constitution? Or is there some legal twist I am not aware of?
Presumably the phrase "without due process of law" means that if they pass a new law and follow it then they have adhered to the constitution (or at least the above amendment to it). If you've amended it at least 5 times already what is to stop it being amended a whole bunch more anyway?
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends.
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Now you can understand what OWS was all about. Had that not happened, I doubt the bill would have passed. :)
Chris Meech I am Canadian. [heard in a local bar] In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. [Yogi Berra] posting about Crystal Reports here is like discussing gay marriage on a catholic church’s website.[Nishant Sivakumar]
Chris Meech wrote:
Now you can understand what OWS was all about.
I think this problem goes way beyond the silly OWS twats.
Just along for the ride. "the meat from that butcher is just the dogs danglies, absolutely amazing cuts of beef." - DaveAuld (2011)
"No, that is just the earthly manifestation of the Great God Retardon." - Nagy Vilmos (2011) -
Chris Meech wrote:
Now you can understand what OWS was all about.
I think this problem goes way beyond the silly OWS twats.
Just along for the ride. "the meat from that butcher is just the dogs danglies, absolutely amazing cuts of beef." - DaveAuld (2011)
"No, that is just the earthly manifestation of the Great God Retardon." - Nagy Vilmos (2011)<tin-foil hat on> I think OWS and all the publicity around it helped to ensure the passage. In fact, maybe all the publicity was just for that reason. :doh: </tin-foil hat>
Chris Meech I am Canadian. [heard in a local bar] In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. [Yogi Berra] posting about Crystal Reports here is like discussing gay marriage on a catholic church’s website.[Nishant Sivakumar]
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The Left - Taking shit for being right since before you were born. - driftglass
tThanks for that. I have to say, having read through the section in question, that I don't interpret it the way that JSOP has.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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<tin-foil hat on> I think OWS and all the publicity around it helped to ensure the passage. In fact, maybe all the publicity was just for that reason. :doh: </tin-foil hat>
Chris Meech I am Canadian. [heard in a local bar] In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. [Yogi Berra] posting about Crystal Reports here is like discussing gay marriage on a catholic church’s website.[Nishant Sivakumar]
I see your point and I do agree.:)
Just along for the ride. "the meat from that butcher is just the dogs danglies, absolutely amazing cuts of beef." - DaveAuld (2011)
"No, that is just the earthly manifestation of the Great God Retardon." - Nagy Vilmos (2011) -
tThanks for that. I have to say, having read through the section in question, that I don't interpret it the way that JSOP has.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
A "covered person has to be suspected of participation in the 9/11 event or in cahoots with a terrorist organization. American citizens do not have to meet that requirement. In other words, an American citizen can be arrested by the military for any reason - or no reason - and held indefinitely in secret, without charges being brought against him (or her), and with no legal representation.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997 -
A "covered person has to be suspected of participation in the 9/11 event or in cahoots with a terrorist organization. American citizens do not have to meet that requirement. In other words, an American citizen can be arrested by the military for any reason - or no reason - and held indefinitely in secret, without charges being brought against him (or her), and with no legal representation.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997Misquoted out of context... Look up the actual bill (SB1867 on thomas.loc.gov)... Section 1031.a gives the POTUS authority to detain covered persons as described in 1031.b.... 1031.b defines "covered persons" as having terrorist connections and so on and so forth. Section 1032.a.1 talks about how anyone detained due to 1031 has to be held in military custody. 1031.b makes an exception to THAT part for American citizens. In other words, if an American citizen is detained because of terrorist connections, they don't have to be kept in military custody, but can be held by the usual authorities. The language is just a little confusing... All that said, the whole thing still reeks of an Orwellian police state, and I hope Obama has the common sense to veto it (As he threatened to do for other reasons)...
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
The Senate passed SB1867, which allows the indefinite detention of ANYONE by the military without reason, without charge, and without a trial. As a sugary sauce to add to this abomination, they are now considering a bill that loosens the restrictions on torture. Welcome to America. My ass...
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997 -
Well, it is very sad to know that henceforth, Americans will be treated at par with the Iraqis and the Afghans.
I am one of the many Americans that believes the US Constitution applies to everyone in the world. I'm also one of the many Americans that believe the Constituion has been attacked, subverted and trivialized by continuing legislative maneuvers ever since it was ratified in 1788.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997 -
Misquoted out of context... Look up the actual bill (SB1867 on thomas.loc.gov)... Section 1031.a gives the POTUS authority to detain covered persons as described in 1031.b.... 1031.b defines "covered persons" as having terrorist connections and so on and so forth. Section 1032.a.1 talks about how anyone detained due to 1031 has to be held in military custody. 1031.b makes an exception to THAT part for American citizens. In other words, if an American citizen is detained because of terrorist connections, they don't have to be kept in military custody, but can be held by the usual authorities. The language is just a little confusing... All that said, the whole thing still reeks of an Orwellian police state, and I hope Obama has the common sense to veto it (As he threatened to do for other reasons)...
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)Yes, that's how I read it: it excludes both US Citizens and legal resident aliens.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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I am one of the many Americans that believes the US Constitution applies to everyone in the world. I'm also one of the many Americans that believe the Constituion has been attacked, subverted and trivialized by continuing legislative maneuvers ever since it was ratified in 1788.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
I am one of the many Americans that believes the US Constitution applies to everyone in the world.
You mean the Bill of Rights, right? I mean, the original constitution mostly just sets up the structure of the federal government... The three branches and separation of powers, demarcation between federal and state powers, etc. It's most of the Bill of Rights (Plus amendments 13, 15, and 19) that I would agree should ideally apply to anyone, anywhere.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)
