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Professional programmer - When?

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  • R Rickard Andersson20

    When do you call yourself a professional programmer? Are You a professional programmer? Are you a professional... ... when you know the language full out? ... when you know much about ATL, COM, SOAP, .NET etc. etc. etc... Short: When you know much about different technologies ... when you don't need so much help like before? ... when someone say to you that you are a professional? :) Well, what is your opinium about this? Rickard Andersson@Suza Computing C# and C++ programmer from SWEDEN! UIN: 50302279 E-Mail: nikado@pc.nu Speciality: I love C#, ASP.NET and C++!

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    KaRl
    wrote on last edited by
    #6

    I would never be a professional programmer, I'm an artist! :-D


    I hurt so bad inside I wish you could see the world through my eyes It stays the same I just wanna laugh again

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    • R Rickard Andersson20

      Paul Watson wrote: No skill or knowledge level involved. But when I read on the back of books about what skills you should have to understand the book, there are thee options: Beginner, Novice or Professional. What do they mean with Professional in such case? Do I need to be employed to understand the book enough? :wtf: Or are they just misusing the word "Professional"? Rickard Andersson@Suza Computing C# and C++ programmer from SWEDEN! UIN: 50302279 E-Mail: nikado@pc.nu Speciality: I love C#, ASP.NET and C++!

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      Paul Watson
      wrote on last edited by
      #7

      Rickard Andersson wrote: What do they mean with Professional in such case? Do I need to be employed to understand the book enough? Or are they just misusing the word "Professional"? While yes I think they are mis-using the word Professional it is pretty pointless to try and change it now. By Professional on the back of a book they are using the common misconception to make you understand that the book is for hard core geeks and not beginners or intermediates. And no you do not have to be employed to understand the book. As we have seen there are some hectically good programmers out there who are not employed. There are also young programmers who know a lot but are not yet employed.

      Paul Watson
      Bluegrass
      Cape Town, South Africa

      Shog9 wrote: Everybody just wants to be naked and famous, Paul.

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      • K KaRl

        I would never be a professional programmer, I'm an artist! :-D


        I hurt so bad inside I wish you could see the world through my eyes It stays the same I just wanna laugh again

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        Paul Watson
        wrote on last edited by
        #8

        KaЯl wrote: I would never be a professional programmer, I'm an artist! :laugh: Oh god, he is French AND a wannabe artist. God help us all... ;P So by definition you must suffer for your art, and only make money off it once you are dead. Sweet deal... :rolleyes:

        Paul Watson
        Bluegrass
        Cape Town, South Africa

        Shog9 wrote: Everybody just wants to be naked and famous, Paul.

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        • K KaRl

          I would never be a professional programmer, I'm an artist! :-D


          I hurt so bad inside I wish you could see the world through my eyes It stays the same I just wanna laugh again

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          Jorgen Sigvardsson
          wrote on last edited by
          #9

          Same here. I only code abstract things with as little obvious meaning as possible. :-D -- This space for rent.

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          • P Paul Watson

            Rickard Andersson wrote: What do they mean with Professional in such case? Do I need to be employed to understand the book enough? Or are they just misusing the word "Professional"? While yes I think they are mis-using the word Professional it is pretty pointless to try and change it now. By Professional on the back of a book they are using the common misconception to make you understand that the book is for hard core geeks and not beginners or intermediates. And no you do not have to be employed to understand the book. As we have seen there are some hectically good programmers out there who are not employed. There are also young programmers who know a lot but are not yet employed.

            Paul Watson
            Bluegrass
            Cape Town, South Africa

            Shog9 wrote: Everybody just wants to be naked and famous, Paul.

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            Rickard Andersson20
            wrote on last edited by
            #10

            Paul Watson wrote: And no you do not have to be employed to understand the book. As we have seen there are some hectically good programmers out there who are not employed. There are also young programmers who know a lot but are not yet employed. Nowdays I only buy books that is recommended to intermediates and professionals. They aren't hard to understand if you know much about programming I think... I have about 3+ years of C++ experience and I know the language pretty full out. It's just tat OO I can't handle yet. But I'll start some courses soon and then... :) Rickard Andersson@Suza Computing C# and C++ programmer from SWEDEN! UIN: 50302279 E-Mail: nikado@pc.nu Speciality: I love C#, ASP.NET and C++!

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            • R Rickard Andersson20

              When do you call yourself a professional programmer? Are You a professional programmer? Are you a professional... ... when you know the language full out? ... when you know much about ATL, COM, SOAP, .NET etc. etc. etc... Short: When you know much about different technologies ... when you don't need so much help like before? ... when someone say to you that you are a professional? :) Well, what is your opinium about this? Rickard Andersson@Suza Computing C# and C++ programmer from SWEDEN! UIN: 50302279 E-Mail: nikado@pc.nu Speciality: I love C#, ASP.NET and C++!

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              Jorgen Sigvardsson
              wrote on last edited by
              #11

              Professional comes from the word Profession. It's as Paul says, the word has been twisted. The swedish counterpart is as twisted as well. It seems like it's implied that someone who is called professional is very good at what he/she is doing. This is not always the case I'm afraid. :) -- This space for rent.

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              • P Paul Watson

                KaЯl wrote: I would never be a professional programmer, I'm an artist! :laugh: Oh god, he is French AND a wannabe artist. God help us all... ;P So by definition you must suffer for your art, and only make money off it once you are dead. Sweet deal... :rolleyes:

                Paul Watson
                Bluegrass
                Cape Town, South Africa

                Shog9 wrote: Everybody just wants to be naked and famous, Paul.

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                KaRl
                wrote on last edited by
                #12

                Paul Watson wrote: Oh god, he is French AND a wannabe artist. God help us all... Nutnutnut... your remark gives me a poor idea of the level of education in South Africa ;P Neve heard or read the names of Debussy, Ravel, Berlioz, Manet, Renoir, Delacroix, Rodin, Bartholdi, Baudelaire, Rimbaud, Ronsard ? Paul Watson wrote: So by definition you must suffer for your art, and only make money off it once you are dead. Sweet deal If my target was to work to be rich, I would be a marketing guy :-D (My moral forbids that :))


                I hurt so bad inside I wish you could see the world through my eyes It stays the same I just wanna laugh again

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                • K KaRl

                  Paul Watson wrote: Oh god, he is French AND a wannabe artist. God help us all... Nutnutnut... your remark gives me a poor idea of the level of education in South Africa ;P Neve heard or read the names of Debussy, Ravel, Berlioz, Manet, Renoir, Delacroix, Rodin, Bartholdi, Baudelaire, Rimbaud, Ronsard ? Paul Watson wrote: So by definition you must suffer for your art, and only make money off it once you are dead. Sweet deal If my target was to work to be rich, I would be a marketing guy :-D (My moral forbids that :))


                  I hurt so bad inside I wish you could see the world through my eyes It stays the same I just wanna laugh again

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                  Paul Watson
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #13

                  KaЯl wrote: Nutnutnut :laugh: :-D "Nutnutnut" gives me a good indication of the French education system as it is supposed to be "Tuttuttut"... ;) KaЯl wrote: Neve heard or read the names of Debussy, Ravel, Berlioz, Manet, Renoir, Delacroix, Rodin, Bartholdi, Baudelaire, Rimbaud, Ronsard ? Yes but for every great French artist there are ten million wannabe artists imposing on the senses of the rest of the world. ;)

                  Paul Watson
                  Bluegrass
                  Cape Town, South Africa

                  Shog9 wrote: Everybody just wants to be naked and famous, Paul.

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                  • P Paul Watson

                    KaЯl wrote: Nutnutnut :laugh: :-D "Nutnutnut" gives me a good indication of the French education system as it is supposed to be "Tuttuttut"... ;) KaЯl wrote: Neve heard or read the names of Debussy, Ravel, Berlioz, Manet, Renoir, Delacroix, Rodin, Bartholdi, Baudelaire, Rimbaud, Ronsard ? Yes but for every great French artist there are ten million wannabe artists imposing on the senses of the rest of the world. ;)

                    Paul Watson
                    Bluegrass
                    Cape Town, South Africa

                    Shog9 wrote: Everybody just wants to be naked and famous, Paul.

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                    K Offline
                    KaRl
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #14

                    Paul Watson wrote: Yes but for every great French artist there are ten million wannabe artists imposing on the senses of the rest of the world And obviously you think I'm in the ten million...[shakinghead]Nutnutnut[/shakinghead] :-D You will see, some day, after my Death, my art will be recognized ;)


                    I hurt so bad inside I wish you could see the world through my eyes It stays the same I just wanna laugh again

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                    • J Jorgen Sigvardsson

                      Professional comes from the word Profession. It's as Paul says, the word has been twisted. The swedish counterpart is as twisted as well. It seems like it's implied that someone who is called professional is very good at what he/she is doing. This is not always the case I'm afraid. :) -- This space for rent.

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                      KaRl
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #15

                      sometimes a professional is only someone who looks very good at work :)


                      I hurt so bad inside I wish you could see the world through my eyes It stays the same I just wanna laugh again

                      1 Reply Last reply
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                      • R Rickard Andersson20

                        Paul Watson wrote: And no you do not have to be employed to understand the book. As we have seen there are some hectically good programmers out there who are not employed. There are also young programmers who know a lot but are not yet employed. Nowdays I only buy books that is recommended to intermediates and professionals. They aren't hard to understand if you know much about programming I think... I have about 3+ years of C++ experience and I know the language pretty full out. It's just tat OO I can't handle yet. But I'll start some courses soon and then... :) Rickard Andersson@Suza Computing C# and C++ programmer from SWEDEN! UIN: 50302279 E-Mail: nikado@pc.nu Speciality: I love C#, ASP.NET and C++!

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                        Jorgen Sigvardsson
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #16

                        Rickard Andersson wrote: I have about 3+ years of C++ experience and I know the language pretty full out. Muuhhahahaa! That's what I thought too.. :rolleyes: You'll learn something new every now and then in C++ for the next 6 years too I'm sure. I've used C++ on and off for 9 years now (before templates and other bells and whistles). I still find new ways to do things that I hadn't thought of previously. Templates and metaprogramming is one area where I've only scratched the surface. -- This space for rent.

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                        • J Jorgen Sigvardsson

                          Rickard Andersson wrote: I have about 3+ years of C++ experience and I know the language pretty full out. Muuhhahahaa! That's what I thought too.. :rolleyes: You'll learn something new every now and then in C++ for the next 6 years too I'm sure. I've used C++ on and off for 9 years now (before templates and other bells and whistles). I still find new ways to do things that I hadn't thought of previously. Templates and metaprogramming is one area where I've only scratched the surface. -- This space for rent.

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                          Rickard Andersson20
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #17

                          Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: Muuhhahahaa! That's what I thought too.. If I change and say: "I know the syntax and all the C++ goodies very well, except from the OO specific things!" :-D Rickard Andersson@Suza Computing C# and C++ programmer from SWEDEN! UIN: 50302279 E-Mail: nikado@pc.nu Speciality: I love C#, ASP.NET and C++!

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                          • R Rickard Andersson20

                            When do you call yourself a professional programmer? Are You a professional programmer? Are you a professional... ... when you know the language full out? ... when you know much about ATL, COM, SOAP, .NET etc. etc. etc... Short: When you know much about different technologies ... when you don't need so much help like before? ... when someone say to you that you are a professional? :) Well, what is your opinium about this? Rickard Andersson@Suza Computing C# and C++ programmer from SWEDEN! UIN: 50302279 E-Mail: nikado@pc.nu Speciality: I love C#, ASP.NET and C++!

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                            thowra
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #18

                            I can make two suggestions: 1. It's when you start developing code thinking of how others might use it effectively. 2. It's the point at which you are finally content to call yourself "just" a programmer. You usually arrive at this point *after* you've called yourself, at various points in your career, a programmer, then a developer, then an analyst/programmer then a software engineer and then a technical architect. Please note that if anyone is offended that I have ranked analyst/programmer above a developer, then you've missed the point :) "The folly of man is that he dreams of what he can never achieve rather than dream of what he can."

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                            • K KaRl

                              Paul Watson wrote: Oh god, he is French AND a wannabe artist. God help us all... Nutnutnut... your remark gives me a poor idea of the level of education in South Africa ;P Neve heard or read the names of Debussy, Ravel, Berlioz, Manet, Renoir, Delacroix, Rodin, Bartholdi, Baudelaire, Rimbaud, Ronsard ? Paul Watson wrote: So by definition you must suffer for your art, and only make money off it once you are dead. Sweet deal If my target was to work to be rich, I would be a marketing guy :-D (My moral forbids that :))


                              I hurt so bad inside I wish you could see the world through my eyes It stays the same I just wanna laugh again

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                              thowra
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #19

                              KaЯl wrote: Neve heard or read the names of Debussy, Ravel, Berlioz, Manet, Renoir, Delacroix, Rodin, Bartholdi, Baudelaire, Rimbaud, Ronsard ? Damn, I hoped you were going to say Chopin as well, at which point, I would've taken great delight at pointing out the fact that he was, in fact, Polish. Incidentally, did you know Debussy died of rectal cancer? :( "The folly of man is that he dreams of what he can never achieve rather than dream of what he can."

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                              • R Rickard Andersson20

                                When do you call yourself a professional programmer? Are You a professional programmer? Are you a professional... ... when you know the language full out? ... when you know much about ATL, COM, SOAP, .NET etc. etc. etc... Short: When you know much about different technologies ... when you don't need so much help like before? ... when someone say to you that you are a professional? :) Well, what is your opinium about this? Rickard Andersson@Suza Computing C# and C++ programmer from SWEDEN! UIN: 50302279 E-Mail: nikado@pc.nu Speciality: I love C#, ASP.NET and C++!

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                                Anna Jayne Metcalfe
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #20

                                I've never called myself a "Professional" anything...it's just a label, and labels are something that have caused me pain in the past. Likewise letters after my name don't bother me either. Anna :rose: www.annasplace.me.uk

                                "Be yourself - not what others think you should be"
                                - Marcia Graesch

                                Trouble with resource IDs? Try the Resource ID Organiser Add-In for Visual C++

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                                • K KaRl

                                  Paul Watson wrote: Oh god, he is French AND a wannabe artist. God help us all... Nutnutnut... your remark gives me a poor idea of the level of education in South Africa ;P Neve heard or read the names of Debussy, Ravel, Berlioz, Manet, Renoir, Delacroix, Rodin, Bartholdi, Baudelaire, Rimbaud, Ronsard ? Paul Watson wrote: So by definition you must suffer for your art, and only make money off it once you are dead. Sweet deal If my target was to work to be rich, I would be a marketing guy :-D (My moral forbids that :))


                                  I hurt so bad inside I wish you could see the world through my eyes It stays the same I just wanna laugh again

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                                  Megan Forbes
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #21

                                  KaЯl wrote: Nutnutnut... :laugh: I must find a reason to use this often :cool:


                                  I knew it would end badly when I first met Chris in a Canberra alleyway and he said 'try some-it won't hurt you'... -Christian Graus on Code Project outages His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking alliances like underpants in a tumble dryer. It hurt the way your tongue hurts after you accidentally staple it to he wall**-Shaun Wilde**

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                                  • T thowra

                                    KaЯl wrote: Neve heard or read the names of Debussy, Ravel, Berlioz, Manet, Renoir, Delacroix, Rodin, Bartholdi, Baudelaire, Rimbaud, Ronsard ? Damn, I hoped you were going to say Chopin as well, at which point, I would've taken great delight at pointing out the fact that he was, in fact, Polish. Incidentally, did you know Debussy died of rectal cancer? :( "The folly of man is that he dreams of what he can never achieve rather than dream of what he can."

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                                    brianwelsch
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #22

                                    phykell wrote: did you know Debussy died of rectal cancer? I guess you could say he got his in the end. :~ BW "Computers are useless. They only give you answers." - Pablo Picasso

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                                    • M Megan Forbes

                                      KaЯl wrote: Nutnutnut... :laugh: I must find a reason to use this often :cool:


                                      I knew it would end badly when I first met Chris in a Canberra alleyway and he said 'try some-it won't hurt you'... -Christian Graus on Code Project outages His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking alliances like underpants in a tumble dryer. It hurt the way your tongue hurts after you accidentally staple it to he wall**-Shaun Wilde**

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                                      KaRl
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #23

                                      Megan Forbes wrote: I must find a reason to use this often Enerve test your boyfriend, use it every night for a week :laugh:


                                      I hurt so bad inside I wish you could see the world through my eyes It stays the same I just wanna laugh again

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                                      • B brianwelsch

                                        phykell wrote: did you know Debussy died of rectal cancer? I guess you could say he got his in the end. :~ BW "Computers are useless. They only give you answers." - Pablo Picasso

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                                        thowra
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #24

                                        ...and that he was a PITA anyway. "The folly of man is that he dreams of what he can never achieve rather than dream of what he can."

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                                        • T thowra

                                          ...and that he was a PITA anyway. "The folly of man is that he dreams of what he can never achieve rather than dream of what he can."

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                                          brianwelsch
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #25

                                          :laugh: BW "Computers are useless. They only give you answers." - Pablo Picasso

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