Interviews Today
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loctrice wrote:
I would not get reviewed at all. Most jobs I can't even apply for because I don't meet the education requirements.
list your experience first, education last. after enough experience, education is, for the most part, ignored. those places where it's "important" you probably don't want to work anyway. it's just someone building a "club".
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von BraunAgreed.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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Most people highly competent at corporate jobs were "B" students in school, but the inverse isn't true; being a "B" student in school does not make it likely that you'll be competent at corporate jobs. School and corporate environments require different skillsets, and it's rare to see people who are great at both.
That is true. There are B students that have to work to be B students, overcoming weak memory, and then the B students that just don't have the memory to be A students, but are good enough to be B students. Unfortunatley, the schools in the US emphasis memory skills. Tests tend to test memory, not skill.
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Not me, but people applying for a customer service job in my company. The ad said, "high school graduate" and "proficient in Excel, Word, and other Office products." We received a couple hundred applications, and after review, we trimmed that list down to 15 or 20 likely candidates. We invited that lot in for an interview with the GM, but before he talked to them, we gave them a little quiz: 1. What is 10% of 100? 2. Sewer service costs $34.50 per month. Create a spreadsheet in Excel that shows six months of bills, totaled at the bottom, with a cumulative total column beside the monthly amounts. Email your spreadsheet to our accountant at blahblah@myplace.com. Of the lot, exactly one got both questions right. Of those capable of calculating 10% of anything (only a few of them) two of them managed to make a column of $34.50 six rows deep, but didn't know what 'cumulative' means. A few others managed as well, but then got the wrong total at the bottom. One didn't know that Excel has Formats, and so used a separate column to hold the $ sign. A couple of the others emailed their answers godonlyknowswhere, and we've never found them. :sigh: Today the entire staff interviewed the 'top' five of the group, and we did settle on a delightful young lady who, despite her deficient skills, looks to be a good fit within the company culture, and who has the right attitude for training. I think we've made an excellent choice, but lord help whoever hires the rest of that bunch! Why do we even bother to send kids to school, if they learn so little by graduation? :doh:
Will Rogers never met me.
Roger Wright wrote:
Why do we even bother to send kids to school, if they learn so little by graduation?
IMHO, many parents today feel it's the school's job to teach their kids. I've always felt that education (and a sense of values) begins at home. But what do I know? I'm no parent - I'm just someone who's been lucky enough to have had awesome role models when I was growing up. :) /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
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Not me, but people applying for a customer service job in my company. The ad said, "high school graduate" and "proficient in Excel, Word, and other Office products." We received a couple hundred applications, and after review, we trimmed that list down to 15 or 20 likely candidates. We invited that lot in for an interview with the GM, but before he talked to them, we gave them a little quiz: 1. What is 10% of 100? 2. Sewer service costs $34.50 per month. Create a spreadsheet in Excel that shows six months of bills, totaled at the bottom, with a cumulative total column beside the monthly amounts. Email your spreadsheet to our accountant at blahblah@myplace.com. Of the lot, exactly one got both questions right. Of those capable of calculating 10% of anything (only a few of them) two of them managed to make a column of $34.50 six rows deep, but didn't know what 'cumulative' means. A few others managed as well, but then got the wrong total at the bottom. One didn't know that Excel has Formats, and so used a separate column to hold the $ sign. A couple of the others emailed their answers godonlyknowswhere, and we've never found them. :sigh: Today the entire staff interviewed the 'top' five of the group, and we did settle on a delightful young lady who, despite her deficient skills, looks to be a good fit within the company culture, and who has the right attitude for training. I think we've made an excellent choice, but lord help whoever hires the rest of that bunch! Why do we even bother to send kids to school, if they learn so little by graduation? :doh:
Will Rogers never met me.
When they enacted the no child left behind philosophy they hampered the rest of the class.
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Roger Wright wrote:
Why do we even bother to send kids to school, if they learn so little by graduation?
IMHO, many parents today feel it's the school's job to teach their kids. I've always felt that education (and a sense of values) begins at home. But what do I know? I'm no parent - I'm just someone who's been lucky enough to have had awesome role models when I was growing up. :) /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
That's exactly the way I was raised. My parents instilled a set of basic values that included academic achievement, reinforced by beatings. :-D If I got a 'C' I got grounded. When the teacher said I'm not doing my homework, I got parental 'help' and 'encouragement' until I caught up. Even when I surpassed my parents' education, they still asked "What did you learn today?" By the time Dad went back to school for a Masters, I was tutoring him in math while learning what he was learning. It has to start at home, and be continually reinforced; the schools can't do it alone.
Will Rogers never met me.
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That's exactly the way I was raised. My parents instilled a set of basic values that included academic achievement, reinforced by beatings. :-D If I got a 'C' I got grounded. When the teacher said I'm not doing my homework, I got parental 'help' and 'encouragement' until I caught up. Even when I surpassed my parents' education, they still asked "What did you learn today?" By the time Dad went back to school for a Masters, I was tutoring him in math while learning what he was learning. It has to start at home, and be continually reinforced; the schools can't do it alone.
Will Rogers never met me.
+5 :thumbsup: /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
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My GPA was around 3.92, but I like to say I have a prodigious memory. It is one of the worst in the world. I also like to say that I am as intelligent as I am only because my memory is so bad that I have to refigure things out rather than recall them. :rolleyes:
Mine was 2.6, but then I was taking a full engineering load and working two or three jobs. I subscribe to the theory "never memorize anything you can look up." I've heard it ascribed to Einstein, but I can't find any reference to prove it. I think Lazarus Long had it right, in saying that the mind fails because, although life experience is linear, correlations among data grow geometrically. I'm not forgetful; I'm just delaying the day when I can no longer function because my brain is full. :)
Will Rogers never met me.
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I have been told that it is the "B" students who are usually the best. "A" I guess get by because they can usually remember everything. "B" student have to use their brains.
3.26 GPA in college, 28 years ago. Nice, solid B.
Software Zen:
delete this; -
Of course I wouldn't have passed your test. 10% aside, I would have actually used a separate column to hold the
$. Finally I don't exactly look like an attractive young lady. :rolleyes:Veni, vidi, vici.
You would not have applied for the job, Customer Service, no self respecting geek wants anything to do with customers. And yeah no tits is going to get you dropped from the race!
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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I found similar things when I was in college. There was one person in particular who was going for a second degree. She could not program anything at all by herself. She was a hell of a copy/paster though. She was in several of my classes and never really progressed. It's not an overstatement either, she just really couldn't program. She was passing the classes, however, because she could answer quiz questions about who created what, and showed effort. For some reason , in college, it seemed like as long as you tried you would not get lower than a C..... even if you couldn't do it. I didn't get a degree. I took all the programming courses the college could offer and moved on. What bothers me is if her and I were to apply at the same job, I would not get reviewed at all. Most jobs I can't even apply for because I don't meet the education requirements. Anyway, from what I have seen your post doesn't really surprise me. I'm glad you found someone that will fit, and I wish the both of you luck.
If it moves, compile it
loctrice wrote:
Most jobs I can't even apply for because I don't meet the education requirements.
Degree means absolutely nothing after 5 years of experience. A developer that it talented will be talented with or without it. One that isn't talented isn't going to be made talented because they have a degree.
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3.26 GPA in college, 28 years ago. Nice, solid B.
Software Zen:
delete this;I was good enough to get into some good colleges from high school, but not great, and was 3.5 in physics and math in my last two years of college (went to U of Chicago, and then Beloit College), but did badly my first two years.
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loctrice wrote:
Most jobs I can't even apply for because I don't meet the education requirements.
Degree means absolutely nothing after 5 years of experience. A developer that it talented will be talented with or without it. One that isn't talented isn't going to be made talented because they have a degree.
Actually my experience is that it does open doors, and it does justify higher raises. May not be a deal breaker once you get the interview, but it is a filter that employers use.
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Mine was 2.6, but then I was taking a full engineering load and working two or three jobs. I subscribe to the theory "never memorize anything you can look up." I've heard it ascribed to Einstein, but I can't find any reference to prove it. I think Lazarus Long had it right, in saying that the mind fails because, although life experience is linear, correlations among data grow geometrically. I'm not forgetful; I'm just delaying the day when I can no longer function because my brain is full. :)
Will Rogers never met me.
I don't think my brain will fill up. I know this because I overwrite it every few years. My childhood has gone the way of Johnny Mnemonic's. :)
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You would not have applied for the job, Customer Service, no self respecting geek wants anything to do with customers. And yeah no tits is going to get you dropped from the race!
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
Teats were definitely on the list of desirable characteristics, and both of our final choices had them to flaunt. But it came down to a choice between dishes they know how to cook, and a little matter of tribal preference. Since we're a tribal company, it is in our best interest, and the Tribe's, to hire tribal members if they're suitably qualified. The first, and best candidate was white, and bakes cupcakes. The last, and second best candidate was a tribal member, and cooks chicken-fried steak. It was nearing lunchtime when we interviewed the last candidate, so that may have skewed our judgement a bit, but I could almost taste that chicken-fried steak as she was walking out the door. The first candidate was clearly the most qualified, but the last was selected. That may seem odd, but being part of a tribal culture is a unique experience. A huge part of our purpose, as whites managing a tribal company, is to identify promising tribal members who can be trained to replace us. The US government stole their land, made them into welfare slaves, kidnapped their children and beat their culture out of them in the so-called Indian Schools, and destroyed a once proud and self-sufficient race. We regard it as our responsibility to help them to become self-sufficient once again, and we take that responsibility seriously. As a group, they're obese, diabetic, alcoholics, drug-abusers, and have no work ethic whatsoever; for generations they've been told that they need do nothing - the government will take care of them. But the government has abdicated its responsibility for decades. We regard it as our job to identify and nurture promising individuals, and to teach them skills that will enable them to turn things around for their people. Finding such a delightful young lady among this population who wants to work for us and to learn all about what we do is a rare opportunity; we jumped on it. This girl already has a good job, but it's not in a field that interests her. On her own initiative, she's enrolled in the local college to earn a certificate in Business Management; no one's paying for it, she's done it herself. This is someone I can mentor - she has the right attitude, and that makes up for a lot of deficiencies in my mind. I think we picked a winner, and that twenty years from now she'll be a leader among her people, setting an example for other young people to follow along the way. We done good today, I think... :-D
Will Rogers never met me.
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Teats were definitely on the list of desirable characteristics, and both of our final choices had them to flaunt. But it came down to a choice between dishes they know how to cook, and a little matter of tribal preference. Since we're a tribal company, it is in our best interest, and the Tribe's, to hire tribal members if they're suitably qualified. The first, and best candidate was white, and bakes cupcakes. The last, and second best candidate was a tribal member, and cooks chicken-fried steak. It was nearing lunchtime when we interviewed the last candidate, so that may have skewed our judgement a bit, but I could almost taste that chicken-fried steak as she was walking out the door. The first candidate was clearly the most qualified, but the last was selected. That may seem odd, but being part of a tribal culture is a unique experience. A huge part of our purpose, as whites managing a tribal company, is to identify promising tribal members who can be trained to replace us. The US government stole their land, made them into welfare slaves, kidnapped their children and beat their culture out of them in the so-called Indian Schools, and destroyed a once proud and self-sufficient race. We regard it as our responsibility to help them to become self-sufficient once again, and we take that responsibility seriously. As a group, they're obese, diabetic, alcoholics, drug-abusers, and have no work ethic whatsoever; for generations they've been told that they need do nothing - the government will take care of them. But the government has abdicated its responsibility for decades. We regard it as our job to identify and nurture promising individuals, and to teach them skills that will enable them to turn things around for their people. Finding such a delightful young lady among this population who wants to work for us and to learn all about what we do is a rare opportunity; we jumped on it. This girl already has a good job, but it's not in a field that interests her. On her own initiative, she's enrolled in the local college to earn a certificate in Business Management; no one's paying for it, she's done it herself. This is someone I can mentor - she has the right attitude, and that makes up for a lot of deficiencies in my mind. I think we picked a winner, and that twenty years from now she'll be a leader among her people, setting an example for other young people to follow along the way. We done good today, I think... :-D
Will Rogers never met me.
Roger Wright wrote:
The US government stole their land, made them into welfare slaves, kidnapped their children and beat their culture out of them in the so-called Indian Schools
Basically what the Australians did to the Aboriginals, it seems to be a common occurance in history.
Roger Wright wrote:
As a group, they're obese, diabetic, alcoholics, drug-abusers, and have no work ethic whatsoever
Once again exactly like our aborigines. I do find the welfare dependancy of the destroyed culture distressing and yeah to see and help someone drag themselves out of the cycle could be rewarding.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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Not me, but people applying for a customer service job in my company. The ad said, "high school graduate" and "proficient in Excel, Word, and other Office products." We received a couple hundred applications, and after review, we trimmed that list down to 15 or 20 likely candidates. We invited that lot in for an interview with the GM, but before he talked to them, we gave them a little quiz: 1. What is 10% of 100? 2. Sewer service costs $34.50 per month. Create a spreadsheet in Excel that shows six months of bills, totaled at the bottom, with a cumulative total column beside the monthly amounts. Email your spreadsheet to our accountant at blahblah@myplace.com. Of the lot, exactly one got both questions right. Of those capable of calculating 10% of anything (only a few of them) two of them managed to make a column of $34.50 six rows deep, but didn't know what 'cumulative' means. A few others managed as well, but then got the wrong total at the bottom. One didn't know that Excel has Formats, and so used a separate column to hold the $ sign. A couple of the others emailed their answers godonlyknowswhere, and we've never found them. :sigh: Today the entire staff interviewed the 'top' five of the group, and we did settle on a delightful young lady who, despite her deficient skills, looks to be a good fit within the company culture, and who has the right attitude for training. I think we've made an excellent choice, but lord help whoever hires the rest of that bunch! Why do we even bother to send kids to school, if they learn so little by graduation? :doh:
Will Rogers never met me.
Old Gag... Three woman apply for a job, but which one gets it? The one with the biggest tits.
--------------------------------- I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] English League Tables - Live
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Not me, but people applying for a customer service job in my company. The ad said, "high school graduate" and "proficient in Excel, Word, and other Office products." We received a couple hundred applications, and after review, we trimmed that list down to 15 or 20 likely candidates. We invited that lot in for an interview with the GM, but before he talked to them, we gave them a little quiz: 1. What is 10% of 100? 2. Sewer service costs $34.50 per month. Create a spreadsheet in Excel that shows six months of bills, totaled at the bottom, with a cumulative total column beside the monthly amounts. Email your spreadsheet to our accountant at blahblah@myplace.com. Of the lot, exactly one got both questions right. Of those capable of calculating 10% of anything (only a few of them) two of them managed to make a column of $34.50 six rows deep, but didn't know what 'cumulative' means. A few others managed as well, but then got the wrong total at the bottom. One didn't know that Excel has Formats, and so used a separate column to hold the $ sign. A couple of the others emailed their answers godonlyknowswhere, and we've never found them. :sigh: Today the entire staff interviewed the 'top' five of the group, and we did settle on a delightful young lady who, despite her deficient skills, looks to be a good fit within the company culture, and who has the right attitude for training. I think we've made an excellent choice, but lord help whoever hires the rest of that bunch! Why do we even bother to send kids to school, if they learn so little by graduation? :doh:
Will Rogers never met me.
