"we will change it as we go"
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literally the words that just came out of managers mouth in a progress meeting where they made a bunch of changes... how do you deal with this kind of manager? I am new to the company and i am trying to enforce some engineering processes but dont want to be too nazi too soon.... advice wise elders please!!!
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literally the words that just came out of managers mouth in a progress meeting where they made a bunch of changes... how do you deal with this kind of manager? I am new to the company and i am trying to enforce some engineering processes but dont want to be too nazi too soon.... advice wise elders please!!!
killabyte wrote:
how do you deal with this kind of manager?
get used to it. changes happen.
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literally the words that just came out of managers mouth in a progress meeting where they made a bunch of changes... how do you deal with this kind of manager? I am new to the company and i am trying to enforce some engineering processes but dont want to be too nazi too soon.... advice wise elders please!!!
killabyte wrote:
how do you deal with this kind of manager?
Is there any other kind? :-D
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literally the words that just came out of managers mouth in a progress meeting where they made a bunch of changes... how do you deal with this kind of manager? I am new to the company and i am trying to enforce some engineering processes but dont want to be too nazi too soon.... advice wise elders please!!!
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literally the words that just came out of managers mouth in a progress meeting where they made a bunch of changes... how do you deal with this kind of manager? I am new to the company and i am trying to enforce some engineering processes but dont want to be too nazi too soon.... advice wise elders please!!!
Be professional. Don't agree to anything at that point in time, but rather say things like "that sounds like it might be achievable, let me get back to you with timeframes". If there are any glaring issues, make sure you raise them, eg: "That sounds like a good idea, but that one little change completely alters the way we are achieving x, y and z. This is a significant change with far-reaching implications for the system."
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literally the words that just came out of managers mouth in a progress meeting where they made a bunch of changes... how do you deal with this kind of manager? I am new to the company and i am trying to enforce some engineering processes but dont want to be too nazi too soon.... advice wise elders please!!!
You will have no choice but to try and learn to deal with it. But right now you're in a tough spot being new to the company, its politics and you're also new to the manager. You have to assume he knows he can do what he says, for reasons that might be political, stategic... or astrological. You don't know. But you can't go against him/her until he proves you should. Chances are he has a corporately good reason to do that, but still be sure you have everything in writing. Most importantly, express your concerns in private. You have to assume he's good, if so, a great part of his job is to watch your back and deal with the consequences of his decisions. At the first sign of him blaming you for doing what he asked you to do, at the very least start looking for a new job and maybe even be prepared to call in JSOP on him.
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You will have no choice but to try and learn to deal with it. But right now you're in a tough spot being new to the company, its politics and you're also new to the manager. You have to assume he knows he can do what he says, for reasons that might be political, stategic... or astrological. You don't know. But you can't go against him/her until he proves you should. Chances are he has a corporately good reason to do that, but still be sure you have everything in writing. Most importantly, express your concerns in private. You have to assume he's good, if so, a great part of his job is to watch your back and deal with the consequences of his decisions. At the first sign of him blaming you for doing what he asked you to do, at the very least start looking for a new job and maybe even be prepared to call in JSOP on him.
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I am use to change for the better it happens, but this guys cahnges are purely "astrological" he likes this one day and that the next... i can see me getting sick of never ending projects very soon
Then as I said, get everything in writing to cover your back while you look somewhere else and call JSOP if he puts you in trouble. :) good luck
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Do you know if he (and anyone else that might complain) understands the repercussions of "just changing it as you go"? As long as he is fine with feature-creep and ever extending deadlines, then I'd say its OK. Sometimes it is OK to work like that.
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Kyudos wrote:
Sometimes it is OK to work like that.
maybe if you work in a government department or academia where you never actually have to finish anything :(
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literally the words that just came out of managers mouth in a progress meeting where they made a bunch of changes... how do you deal with this kind of manager? I am new to the company and i am trying to enforce some engineering processes but dont want to be too nazi too soon.... advice wise elders please!!!
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literally the words that just came out of managers mouth in a progress meeting where they made a bunch of changes... how do you deal with this kind of manager? I am new to the company and i am trying to enforce some engineering processes but dont want to be too nazi too soon.... advice wise elders please!!!
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literally the words that just came out of managers mouth in a progress meeting where they made a bunch of changes... how do you deal with this kind of manager? I am new to the company and i am trying to enforce some engineering processes but dont want to be too nazi too soon.... advice wise elders please!!!
So long as the budget and schedule are as flexible as the requirements, no problem. If either is fixed, and you're responsible for meeting them, update your resume and move on; you're working for idiots and being set up to take the fall.
Will Rogers never met me.
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literally the words that just came out of managers mouth in a progress meeting where they made a bunch of changes... how do you deal with this kind of manager? I am new to the company and i am trying to enforce some engineering processes but dont want to be too nazi too soon.... advice wise elders please!!!
ah man.... i heard the EXACT sentence just before Christmas..... some people don't realize the work involved in changes that are perceived as "little".... I'm just finishing up the "little" changes after 3 weeks... Starting to wonder if we work at the same place...
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Isn't that the core of Agile methodology?
Peter Wasser Art is making something out of nothing and selling it. Frank Zappa
Yes, but only if you are agile enough to think a little further than to the tip of your nose. :) Agile does not mean that you firmly close your eyes for changes that you know are coming up. It is very agile to consider the changes as early as possible and perhaps change the plan for the next sprints, so that the effort to implement those changes stays as low as possible. Doing things 'as we move along' usually means that those considerations and decisions are put off until the bitter end. This bitter end usually is that you are sitting in a dead end and don't have the time left to do what is required to get out of it. That's another lesson I have learned from my friends, the Java code monkeys. They are so religious about not wasting a single thought about upcoming things that they are as agile as an anvil in the end. And, please, before anybody comes again to protect the poor dears from me: They turned the project I had to work on with them into a death march this way. We barely made it in time, but only with sacrificing a lot at the quality end. For me that was the worst experience of all projects I have worked on and, while not being a failure, it is still nothing to be proud of. Before I left for my vacation, I was told that the project they are currently working on is far behind schedule and that they want to to double the number of code monkeys to get it back on schedule. Does anybody else see a pattern here?
I'm invincible, I can't be vinced
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killabyte wrote:
how do you deal with this kind of manager?
get used to it. changes happen.
Chris Losinger wrote:
changes happen.
Man, I have only heard "Sh!t happens" but this is a new one on me ;P
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literally the words that just came out of managers mouth in a progress meeting where they made a bunch of changes... how do you deal with this kind of manager? I am new to the company and i am trying to enforce some engineering processes but dont want to be too nazi too soon.... advice wise elders please!!!
killabyte wrote:
but dont want to be too nazi too soon
But you do want to be a Nazi later ;P This happens all the time, you just have to deal with it. Always allow some contingency when planning so there is some room for play and if you do finish as expected the contigency will make it look early. There is little you can do now except to buckle under, whilst making it clear to your manager how long this is going to take & the levels of effort required etc. You should also look at agile methods. These allow for changes to happen as the project is being untertaken, so there is less of a shock near the end when the product is demonstrated (for the first time generally) and a load of changes are requested during the most pressured phase of the development lifecycle. If you do start to push for agile, do it properly following one of the established methodologies otherwise it can run out of hand. Following one also acts as a crutch for management because they can see some structure to what, otherwise, would appear to be chaos.
Sort of a cross between Lawrence of Arabia and Dilbert.[^]
-Or-
A Dead ringer for Kate Winslett[^] -
literally the words that just came out of managers mouth in a progress meeting where they made a bunch of changes... how do you deal with this kind of manager? I am new to the company and i am trying to enforce some engineering processes but dont want to be too nazi too soon.... advice wise elders please!!!
Since you're new, you can play the 'new' card and talk to your manager (not in a client facing meeting or other public place where he could be embarrassed) about what his change management strategy is and whether he has procedures in place to manage the inevitable budget and time extensions that an unconstrained project will have. He probably doesn't and will bluster and give major warning signs, but you can pretend naïvité and ask the question in a way that gives him the benefit of the doubt. Working this way is fine in certain circumstances, i.e. both budget and time are flexible and the technical work is done in an agile fashion so that change is cheap. As long as there is a technical representative in the meetings to point out when a requested change is expensive, and the manager understands the cost of changes, there is nothing necessarily wrong with his approach. The mention of 'engineering processes' would make me run away fast, and leads me to believe that you have many things to learn about flexibility in technical computing disciplines, so don't assume that you're right all the time without giving the company's culture a look with an open mind. If he can't give you a good answer then make sure you are well protected against blame – having raised the concern with the manager in the first place is a good start with that, as well!
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Chris Losinger wrote:
changes happen.
Man, I have only heard "Sh!t happens" but this is a new one on me ;P
Po-tay-toe. Po-tah-toe.
_____________________________ A logician deducts the truth. A detective inducts the truth. A journalist abducts the truth. Give a man a mug, he drinks for a day. Teach a man to mug...
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literally the words that just came out of managers mouth in a progress meeting where they made a bunch of changes... how do you deal with this kind of manager? I am new to the company and i am trying to enforce some engineering processes but dont want to be too nazi too soon.... advice wise elders please!!!
Quote:
"we will change it as we go"
And they will. This time you get the warning. Next time maybe not. Don't sweat it. You just proceed as if they are in charge, not you. When they ask for a timeline they aren't asking for a real time line. They are asking for a commitment. Don't agree. Tell them that either the changes have to wait until after the current version is done or they/you can keep trying to hit a moving target. You can even put it this way: "when you want a timeline with this kind of flexibility then you aren't asking for a real estimate, you are simply insisting that I commit to do this work no matter how far it goes out of scope within the same time frame as the current scope. If I give you such a commitment then we shall surely fail. Okay, what fictional timeline would you like? I'm game. Why don't you tell me what I agreed to. Or better yet, don't tell me and we'll all have a good laugh when this is over." Yeah, probably not the best way to phrase it.
_____________________________ A logician deducts the truth. A detective inducts the truth. A journalist abducts the truth. Give a man a mug, he drinks for a day. Teach a man to mug...
