This is just silly and seems hypocritical
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The UK is often referred to as a godless country so I can believe the definition is more accurate there. So, you do not believe in any supreme being? What do you believe in?
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
ryanb31 wrote:
The UK is often referred to as a godless country
No, a majority believe in a supreme being but, in the main, are not religious (i.e., do not attend a place of worship).
ryanb31 wrote:
so I can believe the definition is more accurate there.
Well, I have never met an atheist who believed in a supreme being. Again, if your experience of Americans who call themselves atheists is that they all believe in a supreme being, you had better teach them the meaning of the word atheist, and put them right. BTW: I have assumed the meaning of godless to be 'atheistic' in this context.
ryanb31 wrote:
What do you believe in?
Put quite simply, me.
Use carrots and sticks to force the little fish into the big tent - Anon
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The UK is often referred to as a godless country so I can believe the definition is more accurate there. So, you do not believe in any supreme being? What do you believe in?
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
ryanb31 wrote:
The UK is often referred to as a godless country so I can believe the definition is more accurate there.
Unlikely. The UK is primarily a Christian country, based on figures out of the last census. In the 2001 census, 71% of census respondents listed their religion as Christian. The 2011 census did not see a significant shift from this figure.
*pre-emptive celebratory nipple tassle jiggle* - Sean Ewington
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
My blog | My articles | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier - my favourite utility
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ryanb31 wrote:
The UK is often referred to as a godless country
No, a majority believe in a supreme being but, in the main, are not religious (i.e., do not attend a place of worship).
ryanb31 wrote:
so I can believe the definition is more accurate there.
Well, I have never met an atheist who believed in a supreme being. Again, if your experience of Americans who call themselves atheists is that they all believe in a supreme being, you had better teach them the meaning of the word atheist, and put them right. BTW: I have assumed the meaning of godless to be 'atheistic' in this context.
ryanb31 wrote:
What do you believe in?
Put quite simply, me.
Use carrots and sticks to force the little fish into the big tent - Anon
I am sharing the opinion of many Americans, and many of us do believe England is a godless country. Could be wrong. I don't think we are alone though. Quick google search[^] Lots of the results back it up. Again, I am not making a statement of fact, just a perception of the UK.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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It is someone who does not believe in a supreme being. My point was all atheists I have met in person claimed to be atheist because they did not believe in the Christian God; but they did believe in a supreme being, which means they actually were not atheists.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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So what exactly did they believe in? Technically speaking I'd fall into atheist, but I don't really care enough to term myself such in most cases. Yet I certainly don't have any worship patterns or belief in a supreme being of any kind.
Quote:
So what exactly did they believe in?
Who knows. They actually didn't even know. They believed there had to be a supreme being who created all things but they did not have any idea what he/she/it was like.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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I am sharing the opinion of many Americans, and many of us do believe England is a godless country. Could be wrong. I don't think we are alone though. Quick google search[^] Lots of the results back it up. Again, I am not making a statement of fact, just a perception of the UK.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
ryanb31 wrote:
I am sharing the opinion of many Americans, and many of us do believe England is a godless country.
So what? I live here and know that it isn't.
ryanb31 wrote:
Lots of the results back it up.
Interesting how few of the results are relevant to the search argument (various musical groups, book titles, dictionary definitions, and other random occurrences of England, Godless, and Country). Those that are relevant are largely Americans expressing their opinion.
ryanb31 wrote:
Again, I am not making a statement of fact, just a perception of the UK.
And so... irrelevant then?
Use carrots and sticks to force the little fish into the big tent - Anon
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ryanb31 wrote:
I am sharing the opinion of many Americans, and many of us do believe England is a godless country.
So what? I live here and know that it isn't.
ryanb31 wrote:
Lots of the results back it up.
Interesting how few of the results are relevant to the search argument (various musical groups, book titles, dictionary definitions, and other random occurrences of England, Godless, and Country). Those that are relevant are largely Americans expressing their opinion.
ryanb31 wrote:
Again, I am not making a statement of fact, just a perception of the UK.
And so... irrelevant then?
Use carrots and sticks to force the little fish into the big tent - Anon
As I have stated each time, it is the opinion. Your opinion is that we are wrong. Opinion is not irrelevant. You are the one who pointed out that America has a different definition for atheist and I pointed out how and why that is likely true. You seem defensive about this. Don't you claim to be atheist?
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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As I have stated each time, it is the opinion. Your opinion is that we are wrong. Opinion is not irrelevant. You are the one who pointed out that America has a different definition for atheist and I pointed out how and why that is likely true. You seem defensive about this. Don't you claim to be atheist?
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
ryanb31 wrote:
Your opinion is that we are wrong.
But my opinion is obtained from over 50 years of discussing matters of belief with British people, whilst yours is... ?
ryanb31 wrote:
You are the one who pointed out that America has a different definition for atheist
I did no such thing. I would consider that most unlikely, but perhaps in American everyday usage 'atheist' means 'not religious'. I.e., I think you are fibbing. Too subtle, perhaps.
ryanb31 wrote:
You seem defensive about this.
I'll always defend first hand knowledge against ignorance.
ryanb31 wrote:
Don't you claim to be atheist?
What has that to do with what others have told me about their beliefs?
Use carrots and sticks to force the little fish into the big tent - Anon
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I am sharing the opinion of many Americans, and many of us do believe England is a godless country. Could be wrong. I don't think we are alone though. Quick google search[^] Lots of the results back it up. Again, I am not making a statement of fact, just a perception of the UK.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
ryanb31 wrote:
I am sharing the opinion of many Americans, and many of us do believe England is a godless country.
Bold statement. Where are the figures to back this up?
*pre-emptive celebratory nipple tassle jiggle* - Sean Ewington
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
My blog | My articles | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier - my favourite utility
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ryanb31 wrote:
Your opinion is that we are wrong.
But my opinion is obtained from over 50 years of discussing matters of belief with British people, whilst yours is... ?
ryanb31 wrote:
You are the one who pointed out that America has a different definition for atheist
I did no such thing. I would consider that most unlikely, but perhaps in American everyday usage 'atheist' means 'not religious'. I.e., I think you are fibbing. Too subtle, perhaps.
ryanb31 wrote:
You seem defensive about this.
I'll always defend first hand knowledge against ignorance.
ryanb31 wrote:
Don't you claim to be atheist?
What has that to do with what others have told me about their beliefs?
Use carrots and sticks to force the little fish into the big tent - Anon
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ryanb31 wrote:
I am sharing the opinion of many Americans, and many of us do believe England is a godless country.
Bold statement. Where are the figures to back this up?
*pre-emptive celebratory nipple tassle jiggle* - Sean Ewington
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
My blog | My articles | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier - my favourite utility
1. As I said in an earlier post, just do a search on UK or England and godless country on google. 2. My whole life this is what I have heard living in the US, on the news, people I talk to, people who used to live there, etc. It is a statement of my experience.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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1. As I said in an earlier post, just do a search on UK or England and godless country on google. 2. My whole life this is what I have heard living in the US, on the news, people I talk to, people who used to live there, etc. It is a statement of my experience.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
Your statement was that many of your fellow countrymen share this opinion, so you should be able to provide evidence to back this up. The Google search you recommend is poor science because a) Google is an international resource, so results are not limited to a geographical area b) The search would provide many false positives because it is not an exclusive search, so hits on holidays in England (for instance), would be returned. So, back this statement up. Produce your evidence. Don't think that you can post something like this and not get challenged to back it up with facts.
*pre-emptive celebratory nipple tassle jiggle* - Sean Ewington
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
My blog | My articles | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier - my favourite utility
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Your statement was that many of your fellow countrymen share this opinion, so you should be able to provide evidence to back this up. The Google search you recommend is poor science because a) Google is an international resource, so results are not limited to a geographical area b) The search would provide many false positives because it is not an exclusive search, so hits on holidays in England (for instance), would be returned. So, back this statement up. Produce your evidence. Don't think that you can post something like this and not get challenged to back it up with facts.
*pre-emptive celebratory nipple tassle jiggle* - Sean Ewington
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
My blog | My articles | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier - my favourite utility
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I already gave empirical evidence. Did you want me to obtain sworn testimonies from every person I have heard say this before?
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
Nowhere in this thread have you given any empirical evidence. There's not a single scientific study link that you have given. There's no survey you've linked to. Nothing. Are you surprised that you've been challenged on this? When you make a generalisation like this, you have to expect that someone will challenge you to prove it. So - where's your proof? Provide me with a solid, irrefutable proof.
*pre-emptive celebratory nipple tassle jiggle* - Sean Ewington
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
My blog | My articles | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier - my favourite utility
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Just relax dude.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Nowhere in this thread have you given any empirical evidence. There's not a single scientific study link that you have given. There's no survey you've linked to. Nothing. Are you surprised that you've been challenged on this? When you make a generalisation like this, you have to expect that someone will challenge you to prove it. So - where's your proof? Provide me with a solid, irrefutable proof.
*pre-emptive celebratory nipple tassle jiggle* - Sean Ewington
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
My blog | My articles | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier - my favourite utility
Look up the word empirical in the dictionary and you'll see. I never claimed this was a scientific study. All along I have claimed it was my experience and from people I knew.
Quote:
Are you surprised that you've been challenged on this?
I wouldn't really call this a challenge. You are going in the wrong direction and I am just watching you go off. It's actually quite humorous how far you have taken this and you won't let go.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Atheists use ‘unholy water’ to ‘unbless’ Florida highway[^] Since atheists don't believe in God or the Divine nor in the Holy or in Blessings, how can they believe in anything "unholy" or in "unblessing"? If you are "undoing" something doesn't that mean you give credence to the "doing" of a thing? Just a thought. I don't really care one way or the other. Just seems contradictory and hypocritical to me for an atheist to "undo" anything that a religionist "does".
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von Braunahmed zahmed wrote:
Since atheists don't believe in God or the Divine nor in the Holy or in Blessings, how can they believe in anything "unholy" or in "unblessing"? If you are "undoing" something doesn't that mean you give credence to the "doing" of a thing?
Now that I bothered to read it... Your take is incorrect. The "unholy" meant that the water had not gone through a religious process. (Just has bringing water into church does not make it 'holy'.) The "unbless" was meant to convey that their actions were meant as a counter to the specific ceremony (which actually occurred) and had nothing to do with any metaphysical reality.
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jschell wrote:
planned specifically to show the ridiculous of the other action
Only to those who already agree with such bigotry. It was certainly mocking and derisive. Which makes them petty and stupid.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von BraunNow that I bothered to read the article...
ahmed zahmed wrote:
Only to those who already agree with such bigotry
First as I already noted - the US specifically allows free speech. Second the content of the previous religious ceremony was specifically meant to target non-believers. As such that ceremony is offensive.
ahmed zahmed wrote:
Which makes them petty and stupid.
I am guessing that you are not aware of the very real legal (actually illegal) actions that the sheriff is taking in the county in an attempt to surpress, seemingly, any non-christian ideology at any level. That is petty, stupid and hopefully criminal.
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Speech entails more than using words coming out of your mouth and from pen on a piece of paper. Speech also actions. Flag burning is speech. Protesting is speech. Civil disobedience is speech. All constitutionally protected forms of speech. Religion is all about words coming from my mouth, my pen and it is all about my actions and how I comport myself with other people. All forms of speech. Speech that you want to prevent.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von Braunahmed zahmed wrote:
Speech entails more than using words coming out of your mouth and from pen on a piece of paper.
I am quite comfortable in my knowledge both of the constitution and of Supreme Court rulings on what is and what isn't free speech. As well as understanding what is reasonable and unreasonable in the same context as far as what other rights may infringe on that.
ahmed zahmed wrote:
Religion is all about words coming from my mouth,
Wrong. As I already stated the framers of the Constituion, the Supreme Court and many current religious leaders disgree with your interpretation. The constitutionally protected right to religion is NOT the same as that of speech.
ahmed zahmed wrote:
Speech that you want to prevent.
Wrong. Free speech allows you to say what you want (within limits) and it also gives me the right to refute, via speech, every single thing that you say (within limits.)
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jschell wrote:
No it isn't.
The Supremes disagree. I can certainly carry on religious activities anywhere I like in public. It may require a permit in some cases, just like have a demonstration may require a permit, but it's allowed.
jschell wrote:
right to defecate
Religious expression is not defecation.
jschell wrote:
You are wrong.
No, I'm correct. That is the stated goals of most atheist organizations: to remove religion from the public sphere and inhibit the free speech rights of a significant portion of the population.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von Braunahmed zahmed wrote:
The Supremes disagree. I can certainly carry on religious activities anywhere I like in public.
Wrong, both in your claim that the Supreme court allows it and that there are not restrictions.
ahmed zahmed wrote:
...just like have a demonstration may require a permit, but it's allowed.
You do realize that the second part of that statement specifically contradicts what you said before in that it isn't anywhere you like but anywhere you are permitted. As a specific example you cannot hold a satanic ritual in a Catholic church. Even if you want to.
ahmed zahmed wrote:
to remove religion from the public sphere and inhibit the free speech rights of a significant portion of the population.
All I can say is that you really need to read some legal proceedings and to actually read some rulings from federal courts and the Supreme court. Again free speech is NOT freedom of religion. They are different. And there have been SPECIFIC court cases brought because of the conflict between them.