Internal IT vs Software Company vs Customer Software Shop
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I'm currently job hunting and wanted to get some opinions on the pluses and minuses of some different work environments. For clarity sake: Internal IT - Company whose business is not software Software Company - Company whose business is a software product. Customer Software Shop - Company whose business is selling software development services to other companies. I've had plenty of experience with Internal IT, but little experience with the other two. I'm hoping one of you has had a decent amount of experience with two or more and can try to break down some the differences.
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I'm currently job hunting and wanted to get some opinions on the pluses and minuses of some different work environments. For clarity sake: Internal IT - Company whose business is not software Software Company - Company whose business is a software product. Customer Software Shop - Company whose business is selling software development services to other companies. I've had plenty of experience with Internal IT, but little experience with the other two. I'm hoping one of you has had a decent amount of experience with two or more and can try to break down some the differences.
You are actually missing an option. Software developer for non-IT in a non Software company. I will ellaborate after I give my $0.02 on the others. 1.) The IT department's funding depends entirely on the company. Some companies even those that are not a software company depend HIGHLY on very effective IT. Take for example financial firms, or 3PLs. With out the state of the art software from IT the company will not do well. So these types of firms usually get the newer tools. However the drawback is there is usually a large political heap of IT red tape. You need to get sign off by dozens of managers for significant changes that the business did not 'ask' for up front. On the other hand ones that are not dependent on software, for example many manufacturing plants, IT will have a limited budget and likely majority of the department will be "lifers" mostly stuck in their old ways. Now, don't get me wrong sometimes new blood is exactly what these departments need and you can propser quite well. But be prepared to have lots of 'political' battles with the backing of "Well this has worked fine for us in the past". Sign off in comparison to the above is just as difficult if not more because it is like trying to teach your grandmother why she should not click on the pop ups that say "Click Me". 2.) I have no experience in it so little to say other than I would 'expect' the QA process to be much more set in stone and have a lot of influence. If this is not the case you may want to consider a different company because when QA falls on Software companies their product will not sell. Even if the company continues it is likely your department will not. 3.) In other words consulting. Realisticaly you should expect to work for the other items then, because they are the clients. The advantage is no baggage. Once the assignment is done you will move on to the next for better or worse. Also your career experience will grow more rapidly. Deffinately a good option for mid or early career development because you can build up a skill set quickly. 4.) Software developer for non IT group is your missing option. This is often a speacialty role meaning the company has a speacial need for a specific niche. You can find these roles all over the place as all companies tend to need them. The advatage is you get to play and dig into the niche. This can be a disadvantage if you do not particularilly like that niche though (but why would you do that?). The real disadvatage of this role is isolation. You will likely have other co
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It doesn't matter what type of company it is, the job can be good or bad any where. Its up to you to make the most of it. A Customer Software Shop, as you put it, would be a consulting company and in my experience these have higher quality people with higher level skills because clients expect them to be knowledgeable and skilled at the tasks to be performed. Internal IT on the other hand, in my experience, have had the lower skilled and knowledgeable people. It isn't the primary business of the company, only a supporting function, and their is no budget to obtain or retain highly skilled workers and those that are there do just enough to finish the day. The Software Company is a mixture of both.
Failure is not an option; it's the default selection.
Mark Nischalke wrote:
A Customer Software Shop, as you put it, would be a consulting company and in my experience these have higher quality people with higher level skills because clients expect them to be knowledgeable and skilled at the tasks to be performed.
In my experience most consultancies are just body-shops who parachute as many people in as they can hoping to achieve something and never quite manage it.
Mark Nischalke wrote:
Internal IT on the other hand, in my experience, have had the lower skilled and knowledgeable people. It isn't the primary business of the company, only a supporting function, and their is no budget to obtain or retain highly skilled workers and those that are there do just enough to finish the day.
I've never found this to be the case in banking or finance: most realize the importance of IT and whilst they can be over managed and zealously bureaucratic most of the people tend to be pretty good at their jobs.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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Mark Nischalke wrote:
A Customer Software Shop, as you put it, would be a consulting company and in my experience these have higher quality people with higher level skills because clients expect them to be knowledgeable and skilled at the tasks to be performed.
In my experience most consultancies are just body-shops who parachute as many people in as they can hoping to achieve something and never quite manage it.
Mark Nischalke wrote:
Internal IT on the other hand, in my experience, have had the lower skilled and knowledgeable people. It isn't the primary business of the company, only a supporting function, and their is no budget to obtain or retain highly skilled workers and those that are there do just enough to finish the day.
I've never found this to be the case in banking or finance: most realize the importance of IT and whilst they can be over managed and zealously bureaucratic most of the people tend to be pretty good at their jobs.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
mark merrens wrote:
body-shops who parachute as many people in as they can
That would be a consulting agency, and yes their goal is get warm bodies. No English required, just breathing. There is a difference between this and a true consulting company whose business is providing services, ongoing if possible, clients. I have been involved with both types and the latter is much better.
mark merrens wrote:
most of the people tend to be pretty good at their jobs.
Of course there are always exceptions. While working (as a consultant) at a few of these companies I have experienced more who simply have no desire to learn new tools, techniques or procedures. I had one person tell me flat out they couldn't wait for me to finish so they could mothball the code and continue with what they had. Certainly a motivating environment for me.
Failure is not an option; it's the default selection.
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mark merrens wrote:
body-shops who parachute as many people in as they can
That would be a consulting agency, and yes their goal is get warm bodies. No English required, just breathing. There is a difference between this and a true consulting company whose business is providing services, ongoing if possible, clients. I have been involved with both types and the latter is much better.
mark merrens wrote:
most of the people tend to be pretty good at their jobs.
Of course there are always exceptions. While working (as a consultant) at a few of these companies I have experienced more who simply have no desire to learn new tools, techniques or procedures. I had one person tell me flat out they couldn't wait for me to finish so they could mothball the code and continue with what they had. Certainly a motivating environment for me.
Failure is not an option; it's the default selection.
Mark Nischalke wrote:
Of course there are always exceptions. While working (as a consultant) at a few of these companies I have experienced more who simply have no desire to learn new tools, techniques or procedures. I had one person tell me flat out they couldn't wait for me to finish so they could mothball the code and continue with what they had. Certainly a motivating environment for me.
Sadly always one or two like that though I have also known consultants who manage to muddle through regardless of their complete lack of skills. One tell-tale sign for me (when hiring consultants/contractors) is whether their contracts get extended: if they only have 3 or 6 month contracts it means they're not getting rehired: avoid like the plague!!!
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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Mark Nischalke wrote:
A Customer Software Shop, as you put it, would be a consulting company and in my experience these have higher quality people with higher level skills because clients expect them to be knowledgeable and skilled at the tasks to be performed.
In my experience most consultancies are just body-shops who parachute as many people in as they can hoping to achieve something and never quite manage it.
Mark Nischalke wrote:
Internal IT on the other hand, in my experience, have had the lower skilled and knowledgeable people. It isn't the primary business of the company, only a supporting function, and their is no budget to obtain or retain highly skilled workers and those that are there do just enough to finish the day.
I've never found this to be the case in banking or finance: most realize the importance of IT and whilst they can be over managed and zealously bureaucratic most of the people tend to be pretty good at their jobs.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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Mark Nischalke wrote:
Of course there are always exceptions. While working (as a consultant) at a few of these companies I have experienced more who simply have no desire to learn new tools, techniques or procedures. I had one person tell me flat out they couldn't wait for me to finish so they could mothball the code and continue with what they had. Certainly a motivating environment for me.
Sadly always one or two like that though I have also known consultants who manage to muddle through regardless of their complete lack of skills. One tell-tale sign for me (when hiring consultants/contractors) is whether their contracts get extended: if they only have 3 or 6 month contracts it means they're not getting rehired: avoid like the plague!!!
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
mark merrens wrote:
if they only have 3 or 6 month contracts it means they're not getting rehired: avoid like the plague!!!
Not necessarily. The consultant often doesn't have control over whether they get extended. In most of my cases the project is either a fixed period or I have already been slated to begin another project and can't extend. In one or two cases even though the possibility to extend was there, I simply did not want to continue the relationship. Nice place to visit but don't want to live there.
Failure is not an option; it's the default selection.
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mark merrens wrote:
if they only have 3 or 6 month contracts it means they're not getting rehired: avoid like the plague!!!
Not necessarily. The consultant often doesn't have control over whether they get extended. In most of my cases the project is either a fixed period or I have already been slated to begin another project and can't extend. In one or two cases even though the possibility to extend was there, I simply did not want to continue the relationship. Nice place to visit but don't want to live there.
Failure is not an option; it's the default selection.
Even when I've hated being somewhere I always accept at least one extension just for the resume. Just re-read: I should make the distinction between consultants and contractors for this thread.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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+1 to banking and finance companies realizing the importance of IT more than other industries. I've done #1 and #2 (and #2 with a little of #3 involved). They all have plusses and minuses, but, overall, #1 in banking is the best in my opinion.
jesarg wrote:
#1 in banking is the best in my opinion.
Apart from anything, they usually pay better than anyone else!
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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I'm currently job hunting and wanted to get some opinions on the pluses and minuses of some different work environments. For clarity sake: Internal IT - Company whose business is not software Software Company - Company whose business is a software product. Customer Software Shop - Company whose business is selling software development services to other companies. I've had plenty of experience with Internal IT, but little experience with the other two. I'm hoping one of you has had a decent amount of experience with two or more and can try to break down some the differences.
You've missed a category: software development as part of a product. I write software that helps run a commercial ink-jet printing system. I do the user interfaces for the controllers; they are essentially the control panel for the entire machine. It's very satisfying, because people see and use my stuff. It can also be pretty frustrating, since I'm the first stop whenever there's a problem.
Software Zen:
delete this;