On Rejecting Religious Morals (long post)
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"act only on that maxim whereby thou canst will that it should become a universal law." Immanuel Kant - Foundations of the Metaphysics of Morals == CMorality? http://sguthrie.net/kant.htm[^] Or http://ghc.ctc.edu/HUMANITIES/DLARSON/kant.htm[^] for details... Chris Losinger wrote: all religions inherit from a common base class (CMorality), or that morality itself is independent of religion. i'm betting on the latter All religions inherit from a common base class, overriding any methods which conflict with self-propagation, and decorating it with useless trivia designed to confuse and disguise the true purpose of the new subclass... Damn, I don't believe I actually found something that I agree with Chris on... :omg: Some ideas are so stupid that only an intellectual could have thought of them - George Orwell
Rob Graham wrote: Damn, I don't believe I actually found something that I agree with Chris on don't be surprised. i'm actually very agreeable :) -c
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Paul Watson wrote: Why should I fear anything if I do well in life but do not believe in "God and the Last Day"? You don't need to fear anything to do well. We're given the conscience to do good and stay away from the evil. Will we get any reward for doing good in the life hereafter even if we don’t believe in God? I don’t have the authority to set the fate of someone in that part of our lives, but only thing I can say for sure that God almighty is merciful. Please read the following saying of Muhammad (sorry, it’s a bit long). "While a man was walking along a road, he became very thirsty and found a well. He lowered himself into the well, drank, and came out. Then [he saw] a dog protruding its tongue out with thirst. The man said: 'This dog has become exhausted from thirst in the same way as I.' He lowered himself into the well again and filled his shoe with water. He gave the dog some water to drink. He thanked God, and [his sins were] forgiven.' The Prophet was then asked: 'Is there a reward for us in our animals?' He said: 'There is a reward in every living thing.' " Fiqh-us-Sunnah, Vol. 3 #104.
Fazlul Kabir wrote: 'There is a reward in every living thing :) Now that I like. That I agree with and feel is just. I rebelled strongly against the Christian belief that if you did not accept Jesus Christ then you were damned to hell. No matter how you lived your life, no matter your thoughts or deeds. No matter that Jesus Christ was never even given as a choice to you. You went to hell anyway. Entire tribes on remote Polynesian islands have, according to the way of Christianity, been going to hell when they die for millenia. Never mind that there was no possible way Jesus Christ ever came to their island to give them a choice. That part sickens me. From what I have heard the counter to that from Christians is that God has his ways and has already mapped your life out for you. He knows before you are born wether you will choose Jesus Christ or not. Therefore if he knows that you wont then it is ok to put you on some island. X| Fazlul Kabir wrote: We're given the conscience to do good and stay away from the evil. Will we get any reward for doing good in the life hereafter even if we don’t believe in God? My belief is if you are true to yourself then you have lived your life well and that if there happens to be a merciful God and an afterlife then you will be accepted into Heaven/Nirvana/Valhalla/etc. If there is no God and afterlife, then no problem, for you have lived your life well and that is all the universe asks of us. Thanks for the passage. One day I should look more into the differences between Islam and Christianity :)
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaPaul Watson wrote: "The Labia [cinema]... ...was opened by Princess Labia in May 1949..." Christian Graus wrote: See, I told you it was a nice name for a girl...
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Paul Watson wrote: I don't like to be told to base my morals on something I have rejected (though not wholly of course.) You have just demonstrated my point. Non-religious people don't like having religious morals shoved down their throat, even if they are good morals. "Thou shalt not kill? I don't believe in God, so it's okay for me to kill." Somewhat of an exageration, but you see the point behind it.
"My brother says 'Hello'... So hurray for speech therapy!" -Emo Phillips
Kevnar wrote: Non-religious people don't like having religious morals shoved down their throat, even if they are good morals. I reject the forcing down my throat part, not the moral. I reject the methods of Christianity (fear, one true path, fear, fear, fear), not it's teachings. Kevnar wrote: "Thou shalt not kill? I don't believe in God, so it's okay for me to kill." Somewhat of an exageration, but you see the point behind it. Any person of any belief who believes that has more important problems than his afterlife. His logic is screwed up and is being a rebel without a cause. I cannot speak for others but I do not think like that.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaPaul Watson wrote: "The Labia [cinema]... ...was opened by Princess Labia in May 1949..." Christian Graus wrote: See, I told you it was a nice name for a girl...
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Michael A. Barnhart wrote: I did not take it that way. What I read was if you are not religous please base your morals on religious principles. I personally do not feel this is stuffing religion down your throat. It is just asking to have moral values based on something static rather than relativist judgments. See, Chris? This guy got it.
"My brother says 'Hello'... So hurray for speech therapy!" -Emo Phillips
Kevnar wrote: See, Chris? This guy got it. LOL, because Michael A. Barnhart has faith, that is why. Just been reading your other replies and I realise now that your essay was to who you have now explained, not just to everyone. You need to make that clearer in your essay, or damned souls like Chris and I will pick it up and think you are talking to us :-D
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaPaul Watson wrote: "The Labia [cinema]... ...was opened by Princess Labia in May 1949..." Christian Graus wrote: See, I told you it was a nice name for a girl...
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Paul Watson wrote: I feel one can have very good morals without any religion in ones life I agree. As I said above, man was created with an inate sense of right and wrong, regardless of what faith he attests to. Anyone can know and do good. Anyone can know and do evil. It's their choice. My belief is that judgement day will be more about matching one's deeds up with one's conscience. If you know what is right, and didn't do it, you have sinned. This would be true whether there is a God or not. (Of course I also believe that if it wasn't for God, we'd still be single-celled organisms swimming in a primordial soup, if that. Our design is too perfect to be accidental. That's a whole other debate though.)
"My brother says 'Hello'... So hurray for speech therapy!" -Emo Phillips
Kevnar wrote: It's their choice. My belief is that judgement day will be more about matching one's deeds up with one's conscience. If you know what is right, and didn't do it, you have sinned. This would be true whether there is a God or not Indeed, exactly what I believe. Kevnar wrote: Our design is too perfect to be accidental Only because you believe God made humanity in his image and so must be perfect. Or do you really believe barring that, that we are perfect?
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaPaul Watson wrote: "The Labia [cinema]... ...was opened by Princess Labia in May 1949..." Christian Graus wrote: See, I told you it was a nice name for a girl...
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Kevnar wrote: See, Chris? This guy got it. LOL, because Michael A. Barnhart has faith, that is why. Just been reading your other replies and I realise now that your essay was to who you have now explained, not just to everyone. You need to make that clearer in your essay, or damned souls like Chris and I will pick it up and think you are talking to us :-D
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaPaul Watson wrote: "The Labia [cinema]... ...was opened by Princess Labia in May 1949..." Christian Graus wrote: See, I told you it was a nice name for a girl...
I wasn't saying he agreed with me. I was saying he understood what I was essentially trying to say. The writing was for everyone. I'm not one to sit around "preaching to the converted".
"My brother says 'Hello'... So hurray for speech therapy!" -Emo Phillips
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Nor is there a static or absolute base of morals in religion as a whole. There are way too many variants, so [edit]greatest[/edit] common denominator of all of them is probably very close to zero. Chris Richardson Programmers find all sorts of ingenious ways to screw ourselves over. - Tim Smith
As a Christian myself I tend to agree. What many Christians perceive as "moral" is strongly influenced by society, history and our individual background, as well as our varied interpretations of the Bible in its many translations and interpretations. If this were not the case, why are there so many Christian denominations? Anna :rose: www.annasplace.me.uk
"Be yourself - not what others think you should be"
- Marcia GraeschTrouble with resource IDs? Try the Resource ID Organiser Add-In for Visual C++
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Well I believe that its not something that is forced apon everyone.. Yes it is well known. I don't see any problem with Christ/Christian themes in Christmas, yes I am a Christian, but what would be in place of it? A Godless celebration.. supporting atheism, which would be supporting one religion over another. Kevnar wrote: Doing right by one another usually requires self-denial. People are lazy and ignorant. There are many youth that are taught religious teachings in one demnomination in NC (United Methodist), this past youth event Pilgrimage there was an attendance of 5770 youth. -Steven
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404Browser (Efficient, Fast, Secure Web Browser): 404Browser.comSteven Hicks wrote: I don't see any problem with Christ/Christian themes in Christmas, yes I am a Christian, but what would be in place of it? A Godless celebration.. supporting atheism, which would be supporting one religion over another. Well spotted and so very true! Anna :rose: www.annasplace.me.uk
"Be yourself - not what others think you should be"
- Marcia GraeschTrouble with resource IDs? Try the Resource ID Organiser Add-In for Visual C++
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Steven Hicks wrote: I don't see any problem with Christ/Christian themes in Christmas, yes I am a Christian, but what would be in place of it? A Godless celebration.. supporting atheism, which would be supporting one religion over another. Well spotted and so very true! Anna :rose: www.annasplace.me.uk
"Be yourself - not what others think you should be"
- Marcia GraeschTrouble with resource IDs? Try the Resource ID Organiser Add-In for Visual C++
Thanks -Steven
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Thanks -Steven
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404Browser (Efficient, Fast, Secure Web Browser): 404Browser.comAnytime. :) Anna :rose: www.annasplace.me.uk
"Be yourself - not what others think you should be"
- Marcia GraeschTrouble with resource IDs? Try the Resource ID Organiser Add-In for Visual C++