Maybe this is not a good idea
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ryanb31 wrote:
People are way too sensitive about it.
Just as you would be sensitive if I wanted a National Porno day. It's offensive to you as church and prayer is offensive to me. Pray on your own time but don't make it a "National" event.
"the meat from that butcher is just the dogs danglies, absolutely amazing cuts of beef." - DaveAuld (2011)
"No, that is just the earthly manifestation of the Great God Retardon." - Nagy Vilmos (2011) "It is the celestial scrotum of good luck!" - Nagy Vilmos (2011) "But you probably have the smoothest scrotum of any grown man" - Pete O'Hanlon (2012)That's fair. However, if you created a country based on the principles of porn I would have the option to move away. Are you offended by Black History month? Are you offended by Easter? Are you offended by Halloween? Anyone can be offended by anything. The point is the US was built on Christian principles and prayer is one of those principles. Having a national prayer day does not force you to pray nor harm you in any way. I can understand you disagreeing with it but you do have the option to live somewhere else.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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That's fair. However, if you created a country based on the principles of porn I would have the option to move away. Are you offended by Black History month? Are you offended by Easter? Are you offended by Halloween? Anyone can be offended by anything. The point is the US was built on Christian principles and prayer is one of those principles. Having a national prayer day does not force you to pray nor harm you in any way. I can understand you disagreeing with it but you do have the option to live somewhere else.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
ryanb31 wrote:
The point is the US was built on Christian principles
and those principles are now irrelevant. More and more people are moving away from the "church" and stepping into the light of self thought.
"the meat from that butcher is just the dogs danglies, absolutely amazing cuts of beef." - DaveAuld (2011)
"No, that is just the earthly manifestation of the Great God Retardon." - Nagy Vilmos (2011) "It is the celestial scrotum of good luck!" - Nagy Vilmos (2011) "But you probably have the smoothest scrotum of any grown man" - Pete O'Hanlon (2012) -
ryanb31 wrote:
The point is the US was built on Christian principles
and those principles are now irrelevant. More and more people are moving away from the "church" and stepping into the light of self thought.
"the meat from that butcher is just the dogs danglies, absolutely amazing cuts of beef." - DaveAuld (2011)
"No, that is just the earthly manifestation of the Great God Retardon." - Nagy Vilmos (2011) "It is the celestial scrotum of good luck!" - Nagy Vilmos (2011) "But you probably have the smoothest scrotum of any grown man" - Pete O'Hanlon (2012)Quote:
those principles are now irrelevant
There are many trying to make it so. However, the Constitution was based on Christian principles, and as long as that exists, those principles will ALWAYS be relevant.
Quote:
light of self thought.
I have never met a Christian who had not thought for themselves and who did not believe in Christ on their own accord.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Quote:
those principles are now irrelevant
There are many trying to make it so. However, the Constitution was based on Christian principles, and as long as that exists, those principles will ALWAYS be relevant.
Quote:
light of self thought.
I have never met a Christian who had not thought for themselves and who did not believe in Christ on their own accord.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
I used to be a Christian ryan. I was baptized and the whole 9 yards. I have seen and lived both sides of the fence, and I choose the side I am on now. I say self thought, because the Church tells you how to live. In order to be a member of the Church and be in good standing, then you have to live by their rules. Now, if you "choose" to live that way then great, I don't.
ryanb31 wrote:
those principles will ALWAYS be relevant.
And the Constitution is a failed document and needs to be revised in some areas as well as the Bill of Rights. As with all things, change is good and inevitable.
"the meat from that butcher is just the dogs danglies, absolutely amazing cuts of beef." - DaveAuld (2011)
"No, that is just the earthly manifestation of the Great God Retardon." - Nagy Vilmos (2011) "It is the celestial scrotum of good luck!" - Nagy Vilmos (2011) "But you probably have the smoothest scrotum of any grown man" - Pete O'Hanlon (2012) -
I used to be a Christian ryan. I was baptized and the whole 9 yards. I have seen and lived both sides of the fence, and I choose the side I am on now. I say self thought, because the Church tells you how to live. In order to be a member of the Church and be in good standing, then you have to live by their rules. Now, if you "choose" to live that way then great, I don't.
ryanb31 wrote:
those principles will ALWAYS be relevant.
And the Constitution is a failed document and needs to be revised in some areas as well as the Bill of Rights. As with all things, change is good and inevitable.
"the meat from that butcher is just the dogs danglies, absolutely amazing cuts of beef." - DaveAuld (2011)
"No, that is just the earthly manifestation of the Great God Retardon." - Nagy Vilmos (2011) "It is the celestial scrotum of good luck!" - Nagy Vilmos (2011) "But you probably have the smoothest scrotum of any grown man" - Pete O'Hanlon (2012)Quote:
the Church tells you how to live.
But how is that different than anything else? Most people that don't believe in God believe in science and what it tells them. Or, people believe the media and what it tells them. Or, they believe their friends, etc, etc. I know, most of you say "you listen to yourself." But you are influenced by everything around you.
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And the Constitution is a failed document and needs to be revised in some areas as well as the Bill of Rights.
Agree to disagree and I am extremely grateful that you are very wrong. I wish you could understand how critical that document really is. I don't know how old you are but you may yet in your lifetime see what I mean.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Quote:
the Church tells you how to live.
But how is that different than anything else? Most people that don't believe in God believe in science and what it tells them. Or, people believe the media and what it tells them. Or, they believe their friends, etc, etc. I know, most of you say "you listen to yourself." But you are influenced by everything around you.
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And the Constitution is a failed document and needs to be revised in some areas as well as the Bill of Rights.
Agree to disagree and I am extremely grateful that you are very wrong. I wish you could understand how critical that document really is. I don't know how old you are but you may yet in your lifetime see what I mean.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
ryanb31 wrote:
But how is that different than anything else? Most people that don't believe in God believe in science and what it tells them. Or, people believe the media and what it tells them. Or, they believe their friends, etc, etc. I know, most of you say "you listen to yourself." But you are influenced by everything around you.
We are talking about the Church, Ryan. Don't change the subject.
ryanb31 wrote:
Agree to disagree and I am extremely grateful that you are very wrong. I wish you could understand how critical that document really is. I don't know how old you are but you may yet in your lifetime see what I mean.
Your opinion, which I am grateful, is not fact. I am also a Veteran and love this country as much, if not more than most patriotic Americans. I feel that our founding documents are flawed, and thus, must be changed, and when those changes become irrelevant for the current time, then more changes should be made.
"the meat from that butcher is just the dogs danglies, absolutely amazing cuts of beef." - DaveAuld (2011)
"No, that is just the earthly manifestation of the Great God Retardon." - Nagy Vilmos (2011) "It is the celestial scrotum of good luck!" - Nagy Vilmos (2011) "But you probably have the smoothest scrotum of any grown man" - Pete O'Hanlon (2012) -
ryanb31 wrote:
But how is that different than anything else? Most people that don't believe in God believe in science and what it tells them. Or, people believe the media and what it tells them. Or, they believe their friends, etc, etc. I know, most of you say "you listen to yourself." But you are influenced by everything around you.
We are talking about the Church, Ryan. Don't change the subject.
ryanb31 wrote:
Agree to disagree and I am extremely grateful that you are very wrong. I wish you could understand how critical that document really is. I don't know how old you are but you may yet in your lifetime see what I mean.
Your opinion, which I am grateful, is not fact. I am also a Veteran and love this country as much, if not more than most patriotic Americans. I feel that our founding documents are flawed, and thus, must be changed, and when those changes become irrelevant for the current time, then more changes should be made.
"the meat from that butcher is just the dogs danglies, absolutely amazing cuts of beef." - DaveAuld (2011)
"No, that is just the earthly manifestation of the Great God Retardon." - Nagy Vilmos (2011) "It is the celestial scrotum of good luck!" - Nagy Vilmos (2011) "But you probably have the smoothest scrotum of any grown man" - Pete O'Hanlon (2012)Quote:
Don't change the subject.
Explain. I must have misunderstood because it sounds like you are not OK with a church telling people how to live and I was pointing out there are many, many other institutions that also tell us how to live that I never hear anyone complain about.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Quote:
Separation of Church and State
This was meant to keep the government from having a State Religion like the Church of England was when they left to form the US. It was never meant to prevent a national prayer day, or the pledge of allegiance in schools, or prevent 10 Commandments statues at courthouses, etc. People are way too sensitive about it. The US was founded by Christian people living Christian principles and if you do not like it there are plenty of other countries to move to. If the US government ever tries to form a State Church then, yes, I will be outraged, but otherwise, it is not hurting anyone.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
ryanb31 wrote:
This was meant to keep the government from having a State Religion like the Church of England was when they left to form the US.
1st ammendment states:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Again, No law respecting an estabilishment of religon. Its not just about state religon. It is about not showing any specific support to one over the other or in favor of one over none.
Computers have been intelligent for a long time now. It just so happens that the program writers are about as effective as a room full of monkeys trying to crank out a copy of Hamlet.
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ryanb31 wrote:
This was meant to keep the government from having a State Religion like the Church of England was when they left to form the US.
1st ammendment states:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Again, No law respecting an estabilishment of religon. Its not just about state religon. It is about not showing any specific support to one over the other or in favor of one over none.
Computers have been intelligent for a long time now. It just so happens that the program writers are about as effective as a room full of monkeys trying to crank out a copy of Hamlet.
Quote:
No law respecting an estabilishment of religon.
As quoted, they are not to establish a religion. Do not read more into it.
Quote:
It is about not showing any specific support to one over the other or in favor of one over none.
Agreed. Who is being favored? Is prayer only for Christians?
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Quote:
No law respecting an estabilishment of religon.
As quoted, they are not to establish a religion. Do not read more into it.
Quote:
It is about not showing any specific support to one over the other or in favor of one over none.
Agreed. Who is being favored? Is prayer only for Christians?
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
You changed the wording which is a different meaning. Not estabilishing a religon is not the same as no law respecting an establishment of religon. No law respecting an estalishment also covers any law that would be formed around religon. I am not reading more into. You are reading less and re-wording so it suites your needs of gaining support of your religon.
ryanb31 wrote:
Agreed. Who is being favored? Is prayer only for Christians?
I am guessing you didn't read the article. Let me put it bluntly. Would you be OK with Satanists doing satanic rituals on this said Holiday? Is it OK if they do it in our schools and the government partakes? Yeah... Thats what I tought.
Computers have been intelligent for a long time now. It just so happens that the program writers are about as effective as a room full of monkeys trying to crank out a copy of Hamlet.
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You changed the wording which is a different meaning. Not estabilishing a religon is not the same as no law respecting an establishment of religon. No law respecting an estalishment also covers any law that would be formed around religon. I am not reading more into. You are reading less and re-wording so it suites your needs of gaining support of your religon.
ryanb31 wrote:
Agreed. Who is being favored? Is prayer only for Christians?
I am guessing you didn't read the article. Let me put it bluntly. Would you be OK with Satanists doing satanic rituals on this said Holiday? Is it OK if they do it in our schools and the government partakes? Yeah... Thats what I tought.
Computers have been intelligent for a long time now. It just so happens that the program writers are about as effective as a room full of monkeys trying to crank out a copy of Hamlet.
Quote:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion
I quoted you. I did not change anything. It saws they shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion. Are you OK with Cinco de Mayo? Are you OK with Black History month? Clearly they are not religions but they do favor certain groups.
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Would you be OK with Satanists doing satanic rituals on this said Holiday?
Sure. Why would I want to take away their rights. As long as it does not hurt anyone else, right?
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Would you be OK with Satanists doing satanic rituals on this said Holiday?
If this country were founded by Satanists and if they created a constitution to protect satanic rights, then I could choose to live somewhere else. The United States of America was founded by Christians trying to escape religions dictatorship and they created a God inspired constitution to help protect everyone's religious rights, not just Christians. If you don't like it, MOVE. We have border control for coming in, not out.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Quote:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion
I quoted you. I did not change anything. It saws they shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion. Are you OK with Cinco de Mayo? Are you OK with Black History month? Clearly they are not religions but they do favor certain groups.
Quote:
Would you be OK with Satanists doing satanic rituals on this said Holiday?
Sure. Why would I want to take away their rights. As long as it does not hurt anyone else, right?
Quote:
Would you be OK with Satanists doing satanic rituals on this said Holiday?
If this country were founded by Satanists and if they created a constitution to protect satanic rights, then I could choose to live somewhere else. The United States of America was founded by Christians trying to escape religions dictatorship and they created a God inspired constitution to help protect everyone's religious rights, not just Christians. If you don't like it, MOVE. We have border control for coming in, not out.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
ryanb31 wrote:
I quoted you. I did not change anything. It saws they shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion.
ryanb31 wrote:
Quote:
No law respecting an estabilishment of religon.
As quoted, they are not to establish a religion. Do not read more into it.
Yes you quoted me (which was word for word from the 1st ammendment).. But then you went on to say "They are not to establish a religon". While the first ammendment does mean that, it also means they can NOT make any law respecting an establishment of religon. They are not the same. The later means no laws supporting religon in any matter, i.e. no prayer time etc.
ryanb31 wrote:
Are you OK with Cinco de Mayo? Are you OK with Black History month? Clearly they are not religions but they do favor certain groups.
These have nothing to do with peoples "CHOSEN" spiritual beliefs.
ryanb31 wrote:
The United States of America was founded by Christians trying to escape religions dictatorship and they created a God inspired constitution to help protect everyone's religious rights, not just Christians. If you don't like it, MOVE. We have border control for coming in, not out.
You are wrong on so many levels here. The United States of America was not founded by any Christians trying to esacape religous dictatorship. You need to read history more carefully. I want you to read this VERY carefully and maybe you will understand Some immigrants came to the U.S. seeking land to practice their religon freely. Some came here for a better life. In some cases they were put into near slave labor to do so (Endentured Services). There are MANY MANY MANY other reasons people came here. Some not by choise. So, first of all the immigrants were not solely here to practice their worshipping. Some were. Some weren't. Secondly, they worshipped in a different way (even if they were all "Christians" which they weren't they were still quite different). Now here is the final point they you must get through your head. None of those reasons had ANYTHING to do with the founding of the US. Those reasons were why people ended up on the land. Why the US was founded was taxation with out representation. Nothi
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ryanb31 wrote:
I quoted you. I did not change anything. It saws they shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion.
ryanb31 wrote:
Quote:
No law respecting an estabilishment of religon.
As quoted, they are not to establish a religion. Do not read more into it.
Yes you quoted me (which was word for word from the 1st ammendment).. But then you went on to say "They are not to establish a religon". While the first ammendment does mean that, it also means they can NOT make any law respecting an establishment of religon. They are not the same. The later means no laws supporting religon in any matter, i.e. no prayer time etc.
ryanb31 wrote:
Are you OK with Cinco de Mayo? Are you OK with Black History month? Clearly they are not religions but they do favor certain groups.
These have nothing to do with peoples "CHOSEN" spiritual beliefs.
ryanb31 wrote:
The United States of America was founded by Christians trying to escape religions dictatorship and they created a God inspired constitution to help protect everyone's religious rights, not just Christians. If you don't like it, MOVE. We have border control for coming in, not out.
You are wrong on so many levels here. The United States of America was not founded by any Christians trying to esacape religous dictatorship. You need to read history more carefully. I want you to read this VERY carefully and maybe you will understand Some immigrants came to the U.S. seeking land to practice their religon freely. Some came here for a better life. In some cases they were put into near slave labor to do so (Endentured Services). There are MANY MANY MANY other reasons people came here. Some not by choise. So, first of all the immigrants were not solely here to practice their worshipping. Some were. Some weren't. Secondly, they worshipped in a different way (even if they were all "Christians" which they weren't they were still quite different). Now here is the final point they you must get through your head. None of those reasons had ANYTHING to do with the founding of the US. Those reasons were why people ended up on the land. Why the US was founded was taxation with out representation. Nothi
Quote:
The later means no laws supporting religon in any matter, i.e. no prayer time etc.
See, you are the one changing what it says. It clearly says establishment of religion and you changed it to supporting religion. You must have taken a history class from the same goofball I did in college. He had his own ways of seeing what really happened. What a sad point of view.
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These have nothing to do with peoples "CHOSEN" spiritual beliefs.
Yes, I said that. The point is you are upset about the government having a day of prayer but are not upset about showing favoritism towards other groups. That is hypocritical. If I were like you, I would protest Black History month. Good thing I am not like you, at all. Read your history. When the founding fathers were writing the Bill of Rights they were stuck for several days not getting anywhere. Then, one of them suggested they start with a prayer and after they did that they quickly were able to write them. Yes, there were many reasons the country was founded, but religious freedom for ALL, regardless of religion, was a big part of it.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Quote:
The later means no laws supporting religon in any matter, i.e. no prayer time etc.
See, you are the one changing what it says. It clearly says establishment of religion and you changed it to supporting religion. You must have taken a history class from the same goofball I did in college. He had his own ways of seeing what really happened. What a sad point of view.
Quote:
These have nothing to do with peoples "CHOSEN" spiritual beliefs.
Yes, I said that. The point is you are upset about the government having a day of prayer but are not upset about showing favoritism towards other groups. That is hypocritical. If I were like you, I would protest Black History month. Good thing I am not like you, at all. Read your history. When the founding fathers were writing the Bill of Rights they were stuck for several days not getting anywhere. Then, one of them suggested they start with a prayer and after they did that they quickly were able to write them. Yes, there were many reasons the country was founded, but religious freedom for ALL, regardless of religion, was a big part of it.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
Not changing anything. You apparently do not understand grammer. Fortunately the supreme court does as it is considered unconsitutional to have prayer in school. Simply put you are wrong and the US government says so as do most Americans, in particular the non evangilists.
ryanb31 wrote:
You must have taken a history class from the same goofball I did in college. He had his own ways of seeing what really happened. What a sad point of view.
And you apparently were to busy reading fictional stories about floods and a rib woman rather than reading what actually happend. Come back when you can show that all the founding fathers were Christians. Better yet I will point in to your wall. Go look a Ben Franklin. Its funny you think the truth is sad.
ryanb31 wrote:
Yes, I said that. The point is you are upset about the government having a day of prayer but are not upset about showing favoritism towards other groups. That is hypocritical. If I were like you, I would protest Black History month. Good thing I am not like you, at all.
You are really dense if you think that is hypocritical. Key difference is blacks do not choose to be black. Christians choose to be Christian. Why should I support your choice. More over blacks are a minority and get support. Christians "claim" that 80% of the US is under their religon. Why you need to be so pushy? Are you worried of the next generation abandoning it?
ryanb31 wrote:
Read your history. When the founding fathers were writing the Bill of Rights they were stuck for several days not getting anywhere. Then, one of them suggested they start with a prayer and after they did that they quickly were able to write them.
What does that have to do with anything? I suppose if they all said Hey lets get drunk and have sex with prostitues then work on this that would have made it part of the "founding" system as well? Fact is the constitution clearly states the federal government can not make any law supporting a religon. Just because a few of the members decided to pray before hand does change what was written.
Computers have been intelligent for a long time now. It just so happens that the program writers are about as effective as a room full of monkeys trying to crank out a copy of Hamlet.
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Not changing anything. You apparently do not understand grammer. Fortunately the supreme court does as it is considered unconsitutional to have prayer in school. Simply put you are wrong and the US government says so as do most Americans, in particular the non evangilists.
ryanb31 wrote:
You must have taken a history class from the same goofball I did in college. He had his own ways of seeing what really happened. What a sad point of view.
And you apparently were to busy reading fictional stories about floods and a rib woman rather than reading what actually happend. Come back when you can show that all the founding fathers were Christians. Better yet I will point in to your wall. Go look a Ben Franklin. Its funny you think the truth is sad.
ryanb31 wrote:
Yes, I said that. The point is you are upset about the government having a day of prayer but are not upset about showing favoritism towards other groups. That is hypocritical. If I were like you, I would protest Black History month. Good thing I am not like you, at all.
You are really dense if you think that is hypocritical. Key difference is blacks do not choose to be black. Christians choose to be Christian. Why should I support your choice. More over blacks are a minority and get support. Christians "claim" that 80% of the US is under their religon. Why you need to be so pushy? Are you worried of the next generation abandoning it?
ryanb31 wrote:
Read your history. When the founding fathers were writing the Bill of Rights they were stuck for several days not getting anywhere. Then, one of them suggested they start with a prayer and after they did that they quickly were able to write them.
What does that have to do with anything? I suppose if they all said Hey lets get drunk and have sex with prostitues then work on this that would have made it part of the "founding" system as well? Fact is the constitution clearly states the federal government can not make any law supporting a religon. Just because a few of the members decided to pray before hand does change what was written.
Computers have been intelligent for a long time now. It just so happens that the program writers are about as effective as a room full of monkeys trying to crank out a copy of Hamlet.
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National Prayer Day[^] Maybe, making prayer a National event is really not a good idea. Separation of Church and State and all that good stuff.
"the meat from that butcher is just the dogs danglies, absolutely amazing cuts of beef." - DaveAuld (2011)
"No, that is just the earthly manifestation of the Great God Retardon." - Nagy Vilmos (2011) "It is the celestial scrotum of good luck!" - Nagy Vilmos (2011) "But you probably have the smoothest scrotum of any grown man" - Pete O'Hanlon (2012) -
That's fair. However, if you created a country based on the principles of porn I would have the option to move away. Are you offended by Black History month? Are you offended by Easter? Are you offended by Halloween? Anyone can be offended by anything. The point is the US was built on Christian principles and prayer is one of those principles. Having a national prayer day does not force you to pray nor harm you in any way. I can understand you disagreeing with it but you do have the option to live somewhere else.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Quote:
those principles are now irrelevant
There are many trying to make it so. However, the Constitution was based on Christian principles, and as long as that exists, those principles will ALWAYS be relevant.
Quote:
light of self thought.
I have never met a Christian who had not thought for themselves and who did not believe in Christ on their own accord.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Quote:
the Church tells you how to live.
But how is that different than anything else? Most people that don't believe in God believe in science and what it tells them. Or, people believe the media and what it tells them. Or, they believe their friends, etc, etc. I know, most of you say "you listen to yourself." But you are influenced by everything around you.
Quote:
And the Constitution is a failed document and needs to be revised in some areas as well as the Bill of Rights.
Agree to disagree and I am extremely grateful that you are very wrong. I wish you could understand how critical that document really is. I don't know how old you are but you may yet in your lifetime see what I mean.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
ryanb31 wrote:
Agree to disagree and I am extremely grateful that you are very wrong. I wish you could understand how critical that document really is. I don't know how old you are but you may yet in your lifetime see what I mean.
That's the second time I've seen you do this in a religious debate. When you agree to disagree you are supposed to leave it at that and stop debating. What you do is say it, then throw a few more out to get the last words in. If you say "agree to disagree" you should then stop, don't follow it up with more in your favor.
If it moves, compile it
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ryanb31 wrote:
who had not thought for themselves and who did not believe in Christ on their own accord.
I believe this is an oxymoron , and also impossible.
If it moves, compile it