Maybe this is not a good idea
-
I can't speak for Catholics. Most Catholics I know hardly ever go to church at all, Easter and Christmas mostly. If someone doesn't agree with everything or practice everything their religion preaches I don't think that makes them a bad person.
Quote:
As an analogy do you think is ok for a banker to steal (actually steal) money from customer accounts but then to publicly state that bankers should not steal? Would you claim that that isn't hypocrisy?
Sure, that is the definition of hypocrisy.
HomeGrownFreshness wrote:
If someone doesn't agree with everything or practice everything their religion preaches I don't think that makes them a bad person.
I can't speak to "bad". Hypocrite is what I was speaking to.
HomeGrownFreshness wrote:
Sure, that is the definition of hypocrisy.
And that describing a large number of Catholics.
-
HomeGrownFreshness wrote:
I believe most people are trying hard to do their best but we all make mistakes.
Yep. However that statement has nothing to do with church. Nor does it say anything about what a "mistake" is.
HomeGrownFreshness wrote:
Funny how they all skip that part in the Bible that says we should not preach for money.
You are kidding right? I don't know what church you belong to but in the US the vast majority of churches of all kinds expect that participants must contribute financially. And there are all sorts of explicit and subtle ways to insure that participants are made to feel that they should. But perhaps you belong to a church that relies that money must never be discussed and that contributions are only accepted anonymously.
Quote:
You are kidding right? I don't know what church you belong to but in the US the vast majority of churches of all kinds expect that participants must contribute financially. And there are all sorts of explicit and subtle ways to insure that participants are made to feel that they should.
I think you misunderstood. The Bible does say we should pay tithes, but it also says that preachers should not be paid for what they do. That is what I was referring to. Many people start a church to get money and so they must skip over that part of the Bible. 1 Corinthians 9:18 - "What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel." Paul says it is an abuse to take money for preaching. Acts 20: 33-34 - "I have coveted no man's silver, or gold, or apparel. Yea, ye yourselves know, that these hands have ministered unto my necessities, and to them that were with me." 2 Corinthians 11: 7-8 - "Have I committed an offence in abasing myself that ye might be exalted, because I have preached to you the gospel of God freely? I robbed other churches, taking wages of them, to do you service." Paul admits that previously, as Saul, he had taken wages for preaching and that was robbing the saints.
-
Quote:
You are kidding right? I don't know what church you belong to but in the US the vast majority of churches of all kinds expect that participants must contribute financially. And there are all sorts of explicit and subtle ways to insure that participants are made to feel that they should.
I think you misunderstood. The Bible does say we should pay tithes, but it also says that preachers should not be paid for what they do. That is what I was referring to. Many people start a church to get money and so they must skip over that part of the Bible. 1 Corinthians 9:18 - "What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel." Paul says it is an abuse to take money for preaching. Acts 20: 33-34 - "I have coveted no man's silver, or gold, or apparel. Yea, ye yourselves know, that these hands have ministered unto my necessities, and to them that were with me." 2 Corinthians 11: 7-8 - "Have I committed an offence in abasing myself that ye might be exalted, because I have preached to you the gospel of God freely? I robbed other churches, taking wages of them, to do you service." Paul admits that previously, as Saul, he had taken wages for preaching and that was robbing the saints.
HomeGrownFreshness wrote:
I think you misunderstood. The Bible does say we should pay tithes, but it also says that preachers should not be paid for what they do. That is what I was referring to. Many people start a church to get money and so they must skip over that part of the Bible.
Guess the Catholic church skipped that part or has a wildly different interpretation of what "paid" means. Sort of like CEO fringe benefits.
-
ryanb31 wrote:
I didn't read the article but are you sure they feel that the US must allow it or are you making an assumption? They have every right to want a day of prayer but are you sure they are demanding it?
Perhaps you are missing the point. The 'day' already exists. And at least one organization exists to actively keep it that way. There is no government need for recognition yet they actively seek it.
ryanb31 wrote:
If you are calling that favorable then I go back to my earlier question to you regarding Cinco de Mayo, Black History Month, St. Pats day, etc. People oppose them so why are you OK with favoring certain groups and not others?
And I restate what I already said and which you specifically did not respond to...because either the US has specifically repudiate it (slavery) or the Constitution does not address those. The Constitution DOES address religion. Specifically.
ryanb31 wrote:
That was intentional. You had not answered my question about how is it favoring Christians, which you still haven't answered, so I intentionally did not answer. Ask again, and I'll gladly answer.
Which conveniently ignores that the reason I mentioned satanic rituals is because YOU specifically provided a negative statement about satanic worshipers while at the same time attempting to rationalize your own religious favoritism as being appropriate.
Quote:
There is no government need for recognition yet they actively seek it.
I disagree with your interpretation of what establishment of religion means; however, let's say I did agree with you for a moment. Prayer does not have to be religious. So, having a day of prayer does not break what the constitution says. Every religion I know of, Christian and non-Christian, have prayer but you don't have to have religion to have prayer.
Quote:
And I restate what I already
But, you used favoritism as one of your arguments against a day of prayer. So, you have to throw that argument out then because it does not hold true for you with respect to other religious holidays.
Quote:
YOU specifically provided a negative statement about satanic worshipers while at the same time attempting to rationalize your own religious favoritism as being appropriate.
You misunderstood. You should go back and read it.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
-
ryanb31 wrote:
Think about it. St Patrick's Day. What do you think the St stands for? That is a religious holiday. What about Easter or Christmas? Religious holidays. So, why are you OK with those holidays and not OK with a day of prayer.
I don't know where you live but where I live St Patrick's Day is not a religious holiday. Neither is Halloween which also originated with religious connotations.
ryanb31 wrote:
y the way, since you won't answer it in the other thread, many religions, not just Christians, pray, so this does not favor Christians only.
By the way, since you won't answer it in the other thread, you are in fact ok with Congress participating on a Satanic ritual on the day of prayer - right?
Quote:
St Patrick's Day is not a religious holiday
Clearly you don't know what the St stands for so I'll educate you. St. stands for Saint, as in the Catholic Church. See here.[^] It IS a religious holiday.
Quote:
Neither is Halloween which also originated with religious connotations.
You admit that it originated as a religious holiday. Correct, most cultures don't tie religion to the holiday very much anymore today but they are religious holidays. They would not exist if it were not for the religion.
Quote:
ok with Congress participating on a Satanic ritual on the day of prayer - right?
I did ask you to ask it again and you haven't. What Satanic ritual are you referring to? Ask a clear and concise question.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
-
Quote:
There is no government need for recognition yet they actively seek it.
I disagree with your interpretation of what establishment of religion means; however, let's say I did agree with you for a moment. Prayer does not have to be religious. So, having a day of prayer does not break what the constitution says. Every religion I know of, Christian and non-Christian, have prayer but you don't have to have religion to have prayer.
Quote:
And I restate what I already
But, you used favoritism as one of your arguments against a day of prayer. So, you have to throw that argument out then because it does not hold true for you with respect to other religious holidays.
Quote:
YOU specifically provided a negative statement about satanic worshipers while at the same time attempting to rationalize your own religious favoritism as being appropriate.
You misunderstood. You should go back and read it.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
ryanb31 wrote:
Prayer does not have to be religious. So, having a day of prayer does not break what the constitution says. Every religion I know of, Christian and non-Christian, have prayer but you don't have to have religion to have prayer.
Nonsense. I suggest you look the word up. Also specifically not what the proponents are suggesting.
ryanb31 wrote:
So, you have to throw that argument out then because it does not hold true for you with respect to other religious holidays.
The fact that something was done wrong in the past doesn't justify the continuing to do it wrong now.
ryanb31 wrote:
You misunderstood. You should go back and read it.
So you are claiming that you are in fact ok with congress conducting a satanic ritual before each session?
-
Quote:
St Patrick's Day is not a religious holiday
Clearly you don't know what the St stands for so I'll educate you. St. stands for Saint, as in the Catholic Church. See here.[^] It IS a religious holiday.
Quote:
Neither is Halloween which also originated with religious connotations.
You admit that it originated as a religious holiday. Correct, most cultures don't tie religion to the holiday very much anymore today but they are religious holidays. They would not exist if it were not for the religion.
Quote:
ok with Congress participating on a Satanic ritual on the day of prayer - right?
I did ask you to ask it again and you haven't. What Satanic ritual are you referring to? Ask a clear and concise question.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
ryanb31 wrote:
Clearly you don't know what the St stands for so I'll educate you. St. stands for Saint, as in the Catholic Church. See here.[^] It IS a religious holiday.
AGAIN - where I am it is NOT a religious holiday. It isn't even a "holiday" since excluding bars and a parade (which is NOT paid for by the government) there are no observances for it.
ryanb31 wrote:
You admit that it originated as a religious holiday. Correct, most cultures don't tie religion to the holiday very much anymore today but they are religious holidays. They would not exist if it were not for the religion.
Specious. Since is is no longer a religious holiday, just as the solstice is not its past history has nothing to do with the current situation.
ryanb31 wrote:
What Satanic ritual are you referring to? Ask a clear and concise question
That statement means nothing unless you think that satanic rituals do not in fact exist.
-
ryanb31 wrote:
Prayer does not have to be religious. So, having a day of prayer does not break what the constitution says. Every religion I know of, Christian and non-Christian, have prayer but you don't have to have religion to have prayer.
Nonsense. I suggest you look the word up. Also specifically not what the proponents are suggesting.
ryanb31 wrote:
So, you have to throw that argument out then because it does not hold true for you with respect to other religious holidays.
The fact that something was done wrong in the past doesn't justify the continuing to do it wrong now.
ryanb31 wrote:
You misunderstood. You should go back and read it.
So you are claiming that you are in fact ok with congress conducting a satanic ritual before each session?
Quote:
Prayer does not have to be religious.
Since Wikipedia is popular on this forum see here.[^] It reads "Prayer can be a form of religious practice. You can pray to anything you want. It doesn't have to be religious.
Quote:
The fact that something was done wrong in the past doesn't justify the continuing to do it wrong now.
True, but that still does not support what you were saying.
Quote:
congress conducting a satanic ritual before each session?
What are you talking about? I have asked several times and you have not answered. Is this hypothetical or are you referring to something specific?
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
-
ryanb31 wrote:
Clearly you don't know what the St stands for so I'll educate you. St. stands for Saint, as in the Catholic Church. See here.[^] It IS a religious holiday.
AGAIN - where I am it is NOT a religious holiday. It isn't even a "holiday" since excluding bars and a parade (which is NOT paid for by the government) there are no observances for it.
ryanb31 wrote:
You admit that it originated as a religious holiday. Correct, most cultures don't tie religion to the holiday very much anymore today but they are religious holidays. They would not exist if it were not for the religion.
Specious. Since is is no longer a religious holiday, just as the solstice is not its past history has nothing to do with the current situation.
ryanb31 wrote:
What Satanic ritual are you referring to? Ask a clear and concise question
That statement means nothing unless you think that satanic rituals do not in fact exist.
Quote:
AGAIN - where I am it is NOT a religious holiday.
It IS a religious holiday. You can't get around that. Just because churches in your area don't celebrate it, doesn't change that it is a religious holiday. It is named after a Saint. How can you deny it? That's like saying just because you and your friends don't believe in Jesus that Easter is not a celebration of His resurrection.
Quote:
That statement means nothing unless you think that satanic rituals do not in fact exist.
Like I said, be clear and concise. I have no idea what point you are trying to make. I believe it makes sense in your head but I have no idea what you are talking about. Give some details. I only got a B in mind-reading class.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
-
Quote:
Prayer does not have to be religious.
Since Wikipedia is popular on this forum see here.[^] It reads "Prayer can be a form of religious practice. You can pray to anything you want. It doesn't have to be religious.
Quote:
The fact that something was done wrong in the past doesn't justify the continuing to do it wrong now.
True, but that still does not support what you were saying.
Quote:
congress conducting a satanic ritual before each session?
What are you talking about? I have asked several times and you have not answered. Is this hypothetical or are you referring to something specific?
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
ryanb31 wrote:
Since Wikipedia is popular on this forum see here.[^] It reads "Prayer can be a form of religious practice. You can pray to anything you want. It doesn't have to be religious.
It also says "Prayer is an invocation or act that seeks to activate a rapport with a deity or object of worship" And you continue to ignore completely what the actual proponents of that day say. I suspect that you think (or seem to think that you can impose) that 'religion' only refers only to organized observance. Is so I suggest that you look up the word "religion" and read all the definitions.
ryanb31 wrote:
True, but that still does not support what you were saying.
It is your analogy not mine.
ryanb31 wrote:
What are you talking about?
You said the following... "If this country were founded by Satanists and if they created a constitution to protect satanic rights, then I could choose to live somewhere else."
-
ryanb31 wrote:
Since Wikipedia is popular on this forum see here.[^] It reads "Prayer can be a form of religious practice. You can pray to anything you want. It doesn't have to be religious.
It also says "Prayer is an invocation or act that seeks to activate a rapport with a deity or object of worship" And you continue to ignore completely what the actual proponents of that day say. I suspect that you think (or seem to think that you can impose) that 'religion' only refers only to organized observance. Is so I suggest that you look up the word "religion" and read all the definitions.
ryanb31 wrote:
True, but that still does not support what you were saying.
It is your analogy not mine.
ryanb31 wrote:
What are you talking about?
You said the following... "If this country were founded by Satanists and if they created a constitution to protect satanic rights, then I could choose to live somewhere else."
Quote:
"Prayer is an invocation or act that seeks to activate a rapport with a deity or object of worship"
You still miss the point. You can worship deity or whatever the heck you want without having religion.
Quote:
And you continue to ignore completely what the actual proponents of that day say.
I have never ignored it. I simply did not read it. Please tell me what they are saying.
Quote:
"If this country were founded by Satanists and if they created a constitution to protect satanic rights, then I could choose to live somewhere else."
What is your question about this?
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
-
Quote:
AGAIN - where I am it is NOT a religious holiday.
It IS a religious holiday. You can't get around that. Just because churches in your area don't celebrate it, doesn't change that it is a religious holiday. It is named after a Saint. How can you deny it? That's like saying just because you and your friends don't believe in Jesus that Easter is not a celebration of His resurrection.
Quote:
That statement means nothing unless you think that satanic rituals do not in fact exist.
Like I said, be clear and concise. I have no idea what point you are trying to make. I believe it makes sense in your head but I have no idea what you are talking about. Give some details. I only got a B in mind-reading class.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
ryanb31 wrote:
It IS a religious holiday
No it isn't. Let me make it clear - the specific word you seem to be having trouble with is "holiday". Where I am the government closes down on Christmas. Banks close on Christmas. Most businesses close. Thus those entities are 'celebrating' the HOLIDAY. There is no St. Patrick's HOLIDAY. It means nothing to this conversation if there is a mass in a catholic church anywhere in the world on that day. Because that has nothing to do with it. This discussion is about the specifics of the US constitution in regards to religion. And the US government does not 'celebrate' St. Patricks Day.
ryanb31 wrote:
I have no idea what point you are trying to make.
You referred to satanic practices in a negative way in a previous post in this this (and sub thread.)
-
ryanb31 wrote:
It IS a religious holiday
No it isn't. Let me make it clear - the specific word you seem to be having trouble with is "holiday". Where I am the government closes down on Christmas. Banks close on Christmas. Most businesses close. Thus those entities are 'celebrating' the HOLIDAY. There is no St. Patrick's HOLIDAY. It means nothing to this conversation if there is a mass in a catholic church anywhere in the world on that day. Because that has nothing to do with it. This discussion is about the specifics of the US constitution in regards to religion. And the US government does not 'celebrate' St. Patricks Day.
ryanb31 wrote:
I have no idea what point you are trying to make.
You referred to satanic practices in a negative way in a previous post in this this (and sub thread.)
-
Quote:
"Prayer is an invocation or act that seeks to activate a rapport with a deity or object of worship"
You still miss the point. You can worship deity or whatever the heck you want without having religion.
Quote:
And you continue to ignore completely what the actual proponents of that day say.
I have never ignored it. I simply did not read it. Please tell me what they are saying.
Quote:
"If this country were founded by Satanists and if they created a constitution to protect satanic rights, then I could choose to live somewhere else."
What is your question about this?
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
ryanb31 wrote:
You still miss the point. You can worship deity or whatever the heck you want without having religion.
I see you failed to look up "religion" and read all of the definitions. And that isn't what the constitution means.
ryanb31 wrote:
What is your question about this?
I suggest you read the posts.