Spanish miners....
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Again, I would mostly agree with your statements. However, I would say you've picked up a stalker. Good luck with that - 5 to balance.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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Richard MacCutchan wrote:
he sees all these billions being thrown around to no effect
Really? Want to have seen the outcome if those billions hadn't been pumped into the banks in the form of QE and LTRO? In October 2008 the banks had a few days of money left, and lots of loans out on properties. They would have called in those loans in order to remain fluid which would have led to many thousands of houses being repossessed. The would have been auctioned off for whatever the banks could get for them. The only people attending the auction would be cash buyers since no bank is now lending money. Therefore the houses would have sold for a few thousand pounds since demand would be low, available cash to buy would be low and supply high. This would have set a precedent for house prices and left the old owners in the UK liable for the outstanding debt which would have taken them decades to pay off. At the same time many many thousands of families would become dependent on social housing at cost to the local rates payer. The impact on this would have bee to have destroyed house prices and created a recession that would have lasted 20 years. Do you really think those millions lent to banks has had no effect?
I'm not talking about 2008 but about now. We still have nothing approaching a resolution to this crisis, yet the EU can conjure billions of € from nowhere to give to countries that are technically bankrupt. If these counties reverted to national currencies they would at least have the chance to do something positive for themselves.
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Richard MacCutchan wrote:
while his own (and his family's) future look bleaker every day.
So we should subsidise him should we, out of our taxes, to produce a product that either no one wants or is overpriced? Tell me, how can we all get jobs like that and who is going to pay for it all? Really, I am surprised at you, I thought you had a better understanding.
fat_boy wrote:
I thought you had a better understanding.
That's what I thought about you.
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I'm not talking about 2008 but about now. We still have nothing approaching a resolution to this crisis, yet the EU can conjure billions of € from nowhere to give to countries that are technically bankrupt. If these counties reverted to national currencies they would at least have the chance to do something positive for themselves.
Richard MacCutchan wrote:
I'm not talking about 2008 but about now.
I am struggling to respond to this, it is such an argumentative phrase that actually makes you look stupid. QE and LTRO are long term liquidity injections, they are STILL working TODAY.
Richard MacCutchan wrote:
We still have nothing approaching a resolution to this crisis
Oh yes we do. As I stated, you wouldn't have wanted to have seen the UK today if QE hadn't been done.
Richard MacCutchan wrote:
If these counties reverted to national currencies they would at least have the chance to do something positive for themselves.
And destabilise the worlds economy even further... Do some reading on what would happen at a technical level to Greek debt if it leaves the euro. It isn't pretty, and lending some cash now while they try to change their economies so they aren't protected and are more efficient and dynamic is the right thing to do.
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fat_boy wrote:
I thought you had a better understanding.
That's what I thought about you.
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Richard MacCutchan wrote:
I'm not talking about 2008 but about now.
I am struggling to respond to this, it is such an argumentative phrase that actually makes you look stupid. QE and LTRO are long term liquidity injections, they are STILL working TODAY.
Richard MacCutchan wrote:
We still have nothing approaching a resolution to this crisis
Oh yes we do. As I stated, you wouldn't have wanted to have seen the UK today if QE hadn't been done.
Richard MacCutchan wrote:
If these counties reverted to national currencies they would at least have the chance to do something positive for themselves.
And destabilise the worlds economy even further... Do some reading on what would happen at a technical level to Greek debt if it leaves the euro. It isn't pretty, and lending some cash now while they try to change their economies so they aren't protected and are more efficient and dynamic is the right thing to do.
fat_boy wrote:
Do some reading on what would happen
I have just been watching a discussion between three top investment fund managers, all of whom agree that the actions taken to date, and the plans in hand, have not done anything to fix the long term problem. Their general view is that even if the Euro survives there are a number of countries, including Greece, who should get out now, devalue and regain control of their affairs. These are people who have demonstrated clearly their ability to read the economic signals across the world from a practical rather than political viewpoint.
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It isn't, and I apologise for going down this road.
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Richard MacCutchan wrote:
while his own (and his family's) future look bleaker every day.
So we should subsidise him should we, out of our taxes, to produce a product that either no one wants or is overpriced? Tell me, how can we all get jobs like that and who is going to pay for it all? Really, I am surprised at you, I thought you had a better understanding.
fat_boy wrote:
So we should subsidise him should we, out of our taxes
Depends. Increase Foreign Debt by importing? Increase National Debt by subsidies? Whichever least impacts the economy, one would suppose. But worry not, the EU has ordered its members to end all coal subsidies by end of 2018. Less than 7 years left.
fat_boy wrote:
Tell me, how can we all get jobs like that
You can't, there are only 8,000 left of the 40,000 jobs of 20 years ago.
fat_boy wrote:
who is going to pay for it all?
I contributed to your education. You don't hear me complaining about the Government wasting my taxes. ;P
All that is necessary for Evil to succeed is for Good Folks to keep voting for their Party. - Cornelius Thirp
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fat_boy wrote:
Do some reading on what would happen
I have just been watching a discussion between three top investment fund managers, all of whom agree that the actions taken to date, and the plans in hand, have not done anything to fix the long term problem. Their general view is that even if the Euro survives there are a number of countries, including Greece, who should get out now, devalue and regain control of their affairs. These are people who have demonstrated clearly their ability to read the economic signals across the world from a practical rather than political viewpoint.
Richard MacCutchan wrote:
all of whom agree that the actions taken to date, and the plans in hand, have not done anything to fix the long term problem
Fixing the long term problem was not the goal of QE and LTRO, their role was to put liquidity into a stalled and seized up banking system that was on verge of bankrupting the entire economy, read my first response to you, that is what would have happened. Now that has been averted the problem can be fixed. Which in itself is fairly easy since it involves not lending money irresponsibly. As for your experts, I am sure that what they said was valid, but in respect of the statement I made, irrelevant.
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fat_boy wrote:
So we should subsidise him should we, out of our taxes
Depends. Increase Foreign Debt by importing? Increase National Debt by subsidies? Whichever least impacts the economy, one would suppose. But worry not, the EU has ordered its members to end all coal subsidies by end of 2018. Less than 7 years left.
fat_boy wrote:
Tell me, how can we all get jobs like that
You can't, there are only 8,000 left of the 40,000 jobs of 20 years ago.
fat_boy wrote:
who is going to pay for it all?
I contributed to your education. You don't hear me complaining about the Government wasting my taxes. ;P
All that is necessary for Evil to succeed is for Good Folks to keep voting for their Party. - Cornelius Thirp
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Richard MacCutchan wrote:
all of whom agree that the actions taken to date, and the plans in hand, have not done anything to fix the long term problem
Fixing the long term problem was not the goal of QE and LTRO, their role was to put liquidity into a stalled and seized up banking system that was on verge of bankrupting the entire economy, read my first response to you, that is what would have happened. Now that has been averted the problem can be fixed. Which in itself is fairly easy since it involves not lending money irresponsibly. As for your experts, I am sure that what they said was valid, but in respect of the statement I made, irrelevant.
Your original statement was to accuse a miner of being lazy and greedy, just for asking why billions can be given to the banks while workers like him are in fear of losing their livelihood. To date no one in the EU or national governments has answered this question. All the man in the street can see is the same situation as existed before the meltdown: money being poured into the banks just to pay them all huge bonuses.
fat_boy wrote:
Now that has been averted the problem can be fixed. Which in itself is fairly easy since it involves not lending money irresponsibly.
That's an over simplification, and if it's so easy why is it not being done? The heads of the EU cannot agree on a course of action, apart from having interminable crisis meetings.
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ict558 wrote:
I contributed to your education
Not unless you are English, and in any case after 10 I was privately educated. So there! ;P