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  4. Heaven, Hell, and the multiverse

Heaven, Hell, and the multiverse

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  • K Konstantin Vasserman

    brianwelsch wrote: Pansy Lords :) brianwelsch wrote: Like Professor X? I am sorry, I am not familiar with Professor X. Who is that?

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    brianwelsch
    wrote on last edited by
    #21

    Konstantin Vasserman wrote: I am not familiar with Professor X There is a comic book called the X-Men from Marvel Comics. Its a group of mutant super heroes, and their leader is Professor X. There's a movie called 'X-Men', which actually has a sequel coming out 'X2'. BW "Gandalf. Yes. That is what they used to call me. Gandalf the Grey. *I* am Gandalf the White." - Gandalf the White

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    • B brianwelsch

      Konstantin Vasserman wrote: I am not familiar with Professor X There is a comic book called the X-Men from Marvel Comics. Its a group of mutant super heroes, and their leader is Professor X. There's a movie called 'X-Men', which actually has a sequel coming out 'X2'. BW "Gandalf. Yes. That is what they used to call me. Gandalf the Grey. *I* am Gandalf the White." - Gandalf the White

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      Konstantin Vasserman
      wrote on last edited by
      #22

      brianwelsch wrote: There's a movie called 'X-Men' I've actually seen this movie... It's just shows you how much attention I pay to things like that... :-O

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      • B brianwelsch

        He does? I guess I should read that sometime. I always thought he was an innocent fella whose faith God was testing. BW "Gandalf. Yes. That is what they used to call me. Gandalf the Grey. *I* am Gandalf the White." - Gandalf the White

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        Steven Hicks n 1
        wrote on last edited by
        #23

        The book of Job is about a man of great status that has horrible things happen to him very quickly (equivilent to win crashing and format c: /y then install Linux on the top of that)... his faith was tested by his wife, friends, and he was misrible for a good amount of time.. which in the time he was misrible and depressed he was still faithful without denying God. As a result God punishes the friends (not much is said about the wife though who told him to curse God and die), and gives Job more kids/wifes/sheep/livestock as a result. -Steven CP Addict

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        • B brianwelsch

          Why not? If I'm not mistaken there isn't much known about the period before our universe came to be. And I think angels and such existed before that, just as God must have. If you know where obvious flaws are, as they would be shown in the Old Testament, please point them out. Or do you just not believe there is any God at all? BW "Gandalf. Yes. That is what they used to call me. Gandalf the Grey. *I* am Gandalf the White." - Gandalf the White

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          Jason Gerard
          wrote on last edited by
          #24

          First of all, I don't think this is how it was. Secondly, I was just joking, hence the smiley. Thirdly, yes, I am a Christian and believe in God, evil, Satan, etc. Now, God being God and all, I don't think the "Gateways" couldn't be rerouted by him. Secondly, the only time you see Satan being in Hell is in Revelation when John talks about him being cast into the Lake of Fire at the end of time. However, Satan is referred to as the Evil-one and the "god of this world." (Matt 13:19, 2 Cor 4:4) Satan is not a ruler of the Hell dimension. No one is in Hell right now. All the dead are in Hades aka Sheol. The Good in Paradise, the Wicked in Torment. Only when the Judgment comes will people including Satan be cast into the Lake of Fire which is Hell. Why do I need to point only to the Old Testament? Are you Jewish? Jason Gerard qeou kai kurios Iasou Cristou doulos

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          • J Jason Gerard

            First of all, I don't think this is how it was. Secondly, I was just joking, hence the smiley. Thirdly, yes, I am a Christian and believe in God, evil, Satan, etc. Now, God being God and all, I don't think the "Gateways" couldn't be rerouted by him. Secondly, the only time you see Satan being in Hell is in Revelation when John talks about him being cast into the Lake of Fire at the end of time. However, Satan is referred to as the Evil-one and the "god of this world." (Matt 13:19, 2 Cor 4:4) Satan is not a ruler of the Hell dimension. No one is in Hell right now. All the dead are in Hades aka Sheol. The Good in Paradise, the Wicked in Torment. Only when the Judgment comes will people including Satan be cast into the Lake of Fire which is Hell. Why do I need to point only to the Old Testament? Are you Jewish? Jason Gerard qeou kai kurios Iasou Cristou doulos

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            brianwelsch
            wrote on last edited by
            #25

            Jason Gerard wrote: I don't think the "Gateways" couldn't be rerouted by him I'm still working that out. Jason Gerard wrote: Secondly, the only time you see Satan being in Hell is in Revelation when John talks about him being cast into the Lake of Fire at the end of time. I really need to read that. :-O Jason Gerard wrote: Satan is referred to as the Evil-one and the "god of this world." I just read that last night, actually. I didn't know that he was seen as the "god of this world" before. Jason Gerard wrote: Satan is not a ruler of the Hell dimension. No one is in Hell right now. This confuses me a bit. Based on above, I assume that Satan is here on earth, then. Right? And that hell is an empty place. I actually also saw a sight where they referred to Hell and had (sheol) after it, as though they were the same. Are they in fact two different places then? I understood Sheol to be Hebrew for Hell. Jason Gerard wrote: Why do I need to point only to the Old Testament? Are you Jewish? I guess I don't need to limit that. I'm agnostic. My whole reason for posting is twofold. First, and this started me thinking more, is that I'm working on a story and wanted feedback from people more informed than myself. Secondly, I really want to know more about it. I hope my reasons for asking are not offensive, I'm not trying to be. If my writing a fictional story based on Biblical themes does offend, then I sincerely apologize. Thanks for input.:) BW "Gandalf. Yes. That is what they used to call me. Gandalf the Grey. *I* am Gandalf the White." - Gandalf the White
            CP Book Club

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            • S Steven Hicks n 1

              The book of Job is about a man of great status that has horrible things happen to him very quickly (equivilent to win crashing and format c: /y then install Linux on the top of that)... his faith was tested by his wife, friends, and he was misrible for a good amount of time.. which in the time he was misrible and depressed he was still faithful without denying God. As a result God punishes the friends (not much is said about the wife though who told him to curse God and die), and gives Job more kids/wifes/sheep/livestock as a result. -Steven CP Addict

              By reading this message you are held fully responsible for any of the mispelln's or grammer, issues, found on, codeproject.com.

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              brianwelsch
              wrote on last edited by
              #26

              I misread your earlier post. :-O For some reason I read "Job is portrayed as the Devil", and not "Job portrays the devil". Thus the confusion. Oops. I need to read it anyway though. :) BW "Gandalf. Yes. That is what they used to call me. Gandalf the Grey. *I* am Gandalf the White." - Gandalf the White
              CP Book Club

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              • B brianwelsch

                I misread your earlier post. :-O For some reason I read "Job is portrayed as the Devil", and not "Job portrays the devil". Thus the confusion. Oops. I need to read it anyway though. :) BW "Gandalf. Yes. That is what they used to call me. Gandalf the Grey. *I* am Gandalf the White." - Gandalf the White
                CP Book Club

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                Steven Hicks n 1
                wrote on last edited by
                #27

                Job as in the chapter not the person.. thats probly what caused the confusion. -Steven CP Addict

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                • B brianwelsch

                  Jason Gerard wrote: I don't think the "Gateways" couldn't be rerouted by him I'm still working that out. Jason Gerard wrote: Secondly, the only time you see Satan being in Hell is in Revelation when John talks about him being cast into the Lake of Fire at the end of time. I really need to read that. :-O Jason Gerard wrote: Satan is referred to as the Evil-one and the "god of this world." I just read that last night, actually. I didn't know that he was seen as the "god of this world" before. Jason Gerard wrote: Satan is not a ruler of the Hell dimension. No one is in Hell right now. This confuses me a bit. Based on above, I assume that Satan is here on earth, then. Right? And that hell is an empty place. I actually also saw a sight where they referred to Hell and had (sheol) after it, as though they were the same. Are they in fact two different places then? I understood Sheol to be Hebrew for Hell. Jason Gerard wrote: Why do I need to point only to the Old Testament? Are you Jewish? I guess I don't need to limit that. I'm agnostic. My whole reason for posting is twofold. First, and this started me thinking more, is that I'm working on a story and wanted feedback from people more informed than myself. Secondly, I really want to know more about it. I hope my reasons for asking are not offensive, I'm not trying to be. If my writing a fictional story based on Biblical themes does offend, then I sincerely apologize. Thanks for input.:) BW "Gandalf. Yes. That is what they used to call me. Gandalf the Grey. *I* am Gandalf the White." - Gandalf the White
                  CP Book Club

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                  Jason Gerard
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #28

                  brianwelsch wrote: This confuses me a bit. Based on above, I assume that Satan is here on earth, then. Right? And that hell is an empty place. I actually also saw a sight where they referred to Hell and had (sheol) after it, as though they were the same. Are they in fact two different places then? I understood Sheol to be Hebrew for Hell. Yes, Hell is an empty place until the Judgement. Sheol means "the unseen world." It is the place of spirits of dead people. The wicked in torment, the righteous in Paradise. When the Judgement comes, all those in torment will be cast into Hell, all those in paradise will enter Heaven. Hades is the Greek word for the same thing. Sheol and Hades are incorrectly translated as "Hell" in the King James and New International versions of the bible, and possibly others as well. For an example of Hades (Sheol), see Luke 16:19-31[^] Jason Gerard qeou kai kurios Iasou Cristou doulos

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                  • J Jason Gerard

                    brianwelsch wrote: This confuses me a bit. Based on above, I assume that Satan is here on earth, then. Right? And that hell is an empty place. I actually also saw a sight where they referred to Hell and had (sheol) after it, as though they were the same. Are they in fact two different places then? I understood Sheol to be Hebrew for Hell. Yes, Hell is an empty place until the Judgement. Sheol means "the unseen world." It is the place of spirits of dead people. The wicked in torment, the righteous in Paradise. When the Judgement comes, all those in torment will be cast into Hell, all those in paradise will enter Heaven. Hades is the Greek word for the same thing. Sheol and Hades are incorrectly translated as "Hell" in the King James and New International versions of the bible, and possibly others as well. For an example of Hades (Sheol), see Luke 16:19-31[^] Jason Gerard qeou kai kurios Iasou Cristou doulos

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                    brianwelsch
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #29

                    Looks like I'll curling up with the Good Book tonight. ;) Thanks, Jason. BW "Gandalf. Yes. That is what they used to call me. Gandalf the Grey. *I* am Gandalf the White." - Gandalf the White
                    CP Book Club

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                    • B brianwelsch

                      Looks like I'll curling up with the Good Book tonight. ;) Thanks, Jason. BW "Gandalf. Yes. That is what they used to call me. Gandalf the Grey. *I* am Gandalf the White." - Gandalf the White
                      CP Book Club

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                      Jason Gerard
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #30

                      Just to let you know, "Abraham's Bosom" refers to Paradise. Tartarus is the torment part of Hades. Also, the word Hades is also used as a reference to Tartarus. There are also references in the Old Testament to "lowest Sheol" (sometimes translated hell) and "high sheol" (again, sometimes translated hell). These refer to torment and paradise respectively. Jason Gerard qeou kai kurios Iasou Cristou doulos

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                      • B brianwelsch

                        For whatever reason I was thinking about the universe and God. I was thinking that there are multiple universes. The one we live in, Heaven, Hell, and several others. Heaven is the original universe, and quite a nice place at that. God rules over it, and the other universes, with the one exeption being Hell. Each of the universes has a sort of Gateway back to Heaven, but not to the other universes. One nice day, when God was creating Hell, and deciding who should rule over it, Lucifer, a mere cherubum, got this notion that he should be the overlord. However, he was not high-ranking enough to warrant the position. So he revolted, and took it over anyway, much to God's dismay. There was a bit of a war over this, and in the end God decided to close the Gateway to Hell, so that the Devil could no longer come back. The problem with this was that Gateways could not be undone, but they could be "rerouted". So Our Universe was created, as a buffer between Heaven and Hell. Angels were sent here as well, to guard the Gateway between Heaven and Earth and the Gateway between Hell and Earth. So the Devil continuously tries to take over our universe so that he might eventually get back to Heaven, and rule the whole shebang. Any chance this is the real story? :~ BW "Gandalf. Yes. That is what they used to call me. Gandalf the Grey. *I* am Gandalf the White." - Gandalf the White

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                        Nish Nishant
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #31

                        This is brilliant man. I really think you should think seriously of writing fiction of the fantasy type, perhaps even proper science fiction :-) Nish

                        Author of the romantic comedy Summer Love and Some more Cricket [New Win] Review by Shog9 Click here for review[NW]

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                        • K Konstantin Vasserman

                          brianwelsch wrote: Any chance this is the real story? It has as much chance of being a real story as any other story that has no evidence for it existence. It's very much like most of the other myths and religious believes. Here is an alternative version that is just as possible: There are multiple universes. Each universe has someone who is in charge of it. Some of the creatures in charge of the universes are good and some of them are not very nice. The nice Lords of the universes are not bothering anyone and are busy running their "little" worlds. However, the evil Lords of the universes are not content, they are envious and power hungry. They have come up with weapons of mass destruction: envy, hate, anger and so on. The evil Lords are trying to use these weapons to enslave the creatures who live peacefully in the nice universes and make them surrender those universes to the evil Lords. The nice Lords are trying to come up with the ways to protect their investments by developing weapons to neutralize the evil weapons of mass destruction. Examples of neutralizing weapons are love, forgiveness, friendship. So basically, there are multiple wars going on between the Lords of the universes for possession of these universes. Universes keep switching hands. Most of the time Lords don't fight directly among themselves but use the creatures who live in their universes to fight for them. However, sometimes, when they get really desperate they enter in the direct fights throwing the lightings at each other and pulling each other's hair out. Sometimes, one of the Lords is killed in those fights. Of course, this would eventually lead to extinction of the Lord species, but this is not the case. One thing that I forgot to mention is that Lords can have children. Every once in a while, Lords select a virgin among the creatures who live in their universes. Lord of the universe impregnate her and virgin gives birth to an offspring of the Lord. Young Lords of universes grow up and become ether evil or nice and go on to create their own universe or to take over the universe of a neighbor. Sometimes mutant Lords are being born that are neither nice nor evil. Those usually don't survive for very long because when asked to take a stand they get all confused and begin to cry. Well, usually they just cry themselves to death. Sometimes they get mixed up in someone else's war and get killed by a stray lightening. In ether case, they just don't live long enough to even talk abo

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                          Nish Nishant
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #32

                          Wow! This is a pretty neat effort too Cheers :-) Nish

                          Author of the romantic comedy Summer Love and Some more Cricket [New Win] Review by Shog9 Click here for review[NW]

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                          • N Nish Nishant

                            Wow! This is a pretty neat effort too Cheers :-) Nish

                            Author of the romantic comedy Summer Love and Some more Cricket [New Win] Review by Shog9 Click here for review[NW]

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                            Konstantin Vasserman
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #33

                            Thank you. :)

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                            • N Nish Nishant

                              This is brilliant man. I really think you should think seriously of writing fiction of the fantasy type, perhaps even proper science fiction :-) Nish

                              Author of the romantic comedy Summer Love and Some more Cricket [New Win] Review by Shog9 Click here for review[NW]

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                              brianwelsch
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #34

                              Thanks, Nish! That's actually where this idea is heading. :) I'm working through the plot, and developing some characters right now. I hope to start with the writing pretty soon. BW "Gandalf. Yes. That is what they used to call me. Gandalf the Grey. *I* am Gandalf the White." - Gandalf the White
                              CP Book Club

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                              • B brianwelsch

                                Jason Gerard wrote: I don't think the "Gateways" couldn't be rerouted by him I'm still working that out. Jason Gerard wrote: Secondly, the only time you see Satan being in Hell is in Revelation when John talks about him being cast into the Lake of Fire at the end of time. I really need to read that. :-O Jason Gerard wrote: Satan is referred to as the Evil-one and the "god of this world." I just read that last night, actually. I didn't know that he was seen as the "god of this world" before. Jason Gerard wrote: Satan is not a ruler of the Hell dimension. No one is in Hell right now. This confuses me a bit. Based on above, I assume that Satan is here on earth, then. Right? And that hell is an empty place. I actually also saw a sight where they referred to Hell and had (sheol) after it, as though they were the same. Are they in fact two different places then? I understood Sheol to be Hebrew for Hell. Jason Gerard wrote: Why do I need to point only to the Old Testament? Are you Jewish? I guess I don't need to limit that. I'm agnostic. My whole reason for posting is twofold. First, and this started me thinking more, is that I'm working on a story and wanted feedback from people more informed than myself. Secondly, I really want to know more about it. I hope my reasons for asking are not offensive, I'm not trying to be. If my writing a fictional story based on Biblical themes does offend, then I sincerely apologize. Thanks for input.:) BW "Gandalf. Yes. That is what they used to call me. Gandalf the Grey. *I* am Gandalf the White." - Gandalf the White
                                CP Book Club

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                                Emcee Lam
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #35

                                brianwelsch wrote: I hope my reasons for asking are not offensive, I'm not trying to be. If my writing a fictional story based on Biblical themes does offend, then I sincerely apologize. A sincere interest in things Biblical is not offensive. The fact that you desire to collect accurate information on heaven and hell should be commended. Nothing ruins a fictional story more than glaring inaccuracies. Currently, the latest fad in Biblical themed fictional books are end time books. Specifically, the Left Behind series. The series weaves together end time prophecies with a modern day setting.

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                                • B brianwelsch

                                  KaЯl wrote: If I believe in GOd, I don't believe in the Devil,except as a part of us, not as an entity. Would God then also be a part of us, and not an entity? Or maybe we are the devil, and are against God by nature. Sort of like kids are naturally rebelleous against their parents. Eventually, you make peace and carry on, but not always. Or maybe you mean, not a Christian-Judao God at all, but rather there is some All-being floating about, and His relation to us is not well known. KaЯl wrote: The answer perhaps after our death ? stay tuned..... BW "Gandalf. Yes. That is what they used to call me. Gandalf the Grey. *I* am Gandalf the White." - Gandalf the White

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                                  Emcee Lam
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #36

                                  brianwelsch wrote: Or maybe we are the devil, and are against God by nature. Sort of like kids are naturally rebelleous against their parents. Eventually, you make peace and carry on, but not always. Actually your understanding isn't too far off. Let's see if I can help you complete the theological picture. You picked up on the rebellion part. Kids exist in a rebellious state. They lie, cheat, deny, and other acts. Oh wait. I think I was describing a former US president, except I forgot to mention the sex part. Well you get the idea. The perfectly faithful man doesn't seem to exist. Now back to the rebellious child. What is a parent to do with rebellion? Punishment of course. Every wrongful act receives punishment. Well, at least this is the way I remember growing up. What about the adult? You get away with it if you can. Not only that, but you're commended by your friends if you get away. So how does God deal with this situation? Nobody really seems to grow out of the rebellious state. It's punishment for all. Sounds harsh, doesn't it? Well, justice is justice. Wrongs must be addressed. So what does man do to make it all well? Seeing that man is so pathetic, man can't be the solution. God noticed this also, so God created a solution. That's Jesus. Greater than the blood of animals is the blood of the Son of God. Thus by offering Jesus as sacrifice, judgement is moved away from men. The solution is done. Now men can make peace with God. Unfortunately, the rebellion of some is so great that they even refuse God's solution. There are some people that are just utterly unredeemable. If you want to learn more theology for laymen, I suggest you read some books by C.S. Lewis, a friend of J.R. Tolkien

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                                  • E Emcee Lam

                                    brianwelsch wrote: Or maybe we are the devil, and are against God by nature. Sort of like kids are naturally rebelleous against their parents. Eventually, you make peace and carry on, but not always. Actually your understanding isn't too far off. Let's see if I can help you complete the theological picture. You picked up on the rebellion part. Kids exist in a rebellious state. They lie, cheat, deny, and other acts. Oh wait. I think I was describing a former US president, except I forgot to mention the sex part. Well you get the idea. The perfectly faithful man doesn't seem to exist. Now back to the rebellious child. What is a parent to do with rebellion? Punishment of course. Every wrongful act receives punishment. Well, at least this is the way I remember growing up. What about the adult? You get away with it if you can. Not only that, but you're commended by your friends if you get away. So how does God deal with this situation? Nobody really seems to grow out of the rebellious state. It's punishment for all. Sounds harsh, doesn't it? Well, justice is justice. Wrongs must be addressed. So what does man do to make it all well? Seeing that man is so pathetic, man can't be the solution. God noticed this also, so God created a solution. That's Jesus. Greater than the blood of animals is the blood of the Son of God. Thus by offering Jesus as sacrifice, judgement is moved away from men. The solution is done. Now men can make peace with God. Unfortunately, the rebellion of some is so great that they even refuse God's solution. There are some people that are just utterly unredeemable. If you want to learn more theology for laymen, I suggest you read some books by C.S. Lewis, a friend of J.R. Tolkien

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                                    brianwelsch
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #37

                                    Emcee Lam wrote: Actually your understanding isn't too far off. Good to hear :) It's great to hear different explainations on this. Emcee Lam wrote: I suggest you read some books by C.S. Lewis, I've just learned just how close Tolkien and Lewis were. I didn't realize they both taught at Oxford, and started up the Inklings writers club there. I'm reading through LOTR currently, maybe I'll get to Lewis after that. Have you read Mere Christianity, or The Great Divorce? BW "Gandalf. Yes. That is what they used to call me. Gandalf the Grey. *I* am Gandalf the White." - Gandalf the White
                                    CP Book Club

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                                    • B brianwelsch

                                      Emcee Lam wrote: Actually your understanding isn't too far off. Good to hear :) It's great to hear different explainations on this. Emcee Lam wrote: I suggest you read some books by C.S. Lewis, I've just learned just how close Tolkien and Lewis were. I didn't realize they both taught at Oxford, and started up the Inklings writers club there. I'm reading through LOTR currently, maybe I'll get to Lewis after that. Have you read Mere Christianity, or The Great Divorce? BW "Gandalf. Yes. That is what they used to call me. Gandalf the Grey. *I* am Gandalf the White." - Gandalf the White
                                      CP Book Club

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                                      Emcee Lam
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #38

                                      brianwelsch wrote: Have you read Mere Christianity, or The Great Divorce? I've been trying to read through Mere Christianity, but every time I get my hands on a copy I'm giving it away to one of my friends. From the little I have read, I can say that C.S. Lewis rocks!

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                                      • B brianwelsch

                                        Thanks, Nish! That's actually where this idea is heading. :) I'm working through the plot, and developing some characters right now. I hope to start with the writing pretty soon. BW "Gandalf. Yes. That is what they used to call me. Gandalf the Grey. *I* am Gandalf the White." - Gandalf the White
                                        CP Book Club

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                                        Paul Watson
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #39

                                        brianwelsch wrote: I'm working through the plot, and developing some characters right now. I hope to start with the writing pretty soon. Awesome! That is one of my big dreams too, to pen a SF book. You should start a journal on the challenges and processes you go through as you write your book :)

                                        Paul Watson
                                        Bluegrass
                                        Cape Town, South Africa

                                        Paul Watson wrote: "The Labia [cinema]... ...was opened by Princess Labia in May 1949..." Christian Graus wrote: See, I told you it was a nice name for a girl...

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                                        • B brianwelsch

                                          For whatever reason I was thinking about the universe and God. I was thinking that there are multiple universes. The one we live in, Heaven, Hell, and several others. Heaven is the original universe, and quite a nice place at that. God rules over it, and the other universes, with the one exeption being Hell. Each of the universes has a sort of Gateway back to Heaven, but not to the other universes. One nice day, when God was creating Hell, and deciding who should rule over it, Lucifer, a mere cherubum, got this notion that he should be the overlord. However, he was not high-ranking enough to warrant the position. So he revolted, and took it over anyway, much to God's dismay. There was a bit of a war over this, and in the end God decided to close the Gateway to Hell, so that the Devil could no longer come back. The problem with this was that Gateways could not be undone, but they could be "rerouted". So Our Universe was created, as a buffer between Heaven and Hell. Angels were sent here as well, to guard the Gateway between Heaven and Earth and the Gateway between Hell and Earth. So the Devil continuously tries to take over our universe so that he might eventually get back to Heaven, and rule the whole shebang. Any chance this is the real story? :~ BW "Gandalf. Yes. That is what they used to call me. Gandalf the Grey. *I* am Gandalf the White." - Gandalf the White

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                                          I'm not a religous person, but there is one question that surfaces in my mind on this stuff. If God is omnipotent and ominscent (all powerful and all knowing) and created everything then: 1. God created the devil, and 2. God knows the consequences of all his/her/its actions and the universe is there deterministic and free will does not exist. The alternative is that God is not omnipotent and ominscent. One other thing - when people talk about the bible what do they mean ? Unlike the Quran, there is no original bible, instead many documents written at different times in a number of languages, particularly aramaic and greek. The tigress is here :-D

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