Math: Need study advice.. (Long post)
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I've been going to college for a long time. Imagine trying to get a degree 1 or 2 classes at a time. Sometimes 1 semester a year. I've been working fulltime since I graduated highschool (so long ago I don't want to remember). I would have graduated long ago if not for math. My college requires that I have a math minor since I am a computer science major. I've been done with my major requirements for a couple of semester now. The only thing that stands in my way is 1 math class for my minor and I will officially have a Bachelor of Science in Computer Science. Now if I didn't mention it before I'm weak in math. I've taken every math class twice, except for 3 of them. It's not from lack of study. It's just math takes me much longer to comprehend. Usually 2 sememsters for 1 subject :). (I've not had a problem in my CS classes. Very respectable grades there!) So here's my hangup. The class I'm taking this semester (and it's my last class ever if I make a B) is Non-Euclidean Geometry. Now I did not take this by choice. This is the lowest level (MA333) math class that I could take. Did I mention I'm bad in math? Anyway this class is theorems and proofs. Not only am I bad in math I'm horrible in math theory and proofs. Give me a "plug and chug" formula any day! So here's why I'm giving you my life story.:zzz: I would appreciate it if you kind folks could give me some pointers on how you would study for a math class that is comprised of theory. It's mainly Theorems and proofs. I know I could memorize all the theorems and proofs but let's be realistic. I can understand what the theorems are saying. And after seeing someone complete the proof I understand it. But to actually do the proof myself is another thing all together. So what would you recommend for studying this kind of subject? I don't know why this is so hard for me. I play logic games all the time with code. Should be that difficult. nay
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I've been going to college for a long time. Imagine trying to get a degree 1 or 2 classes at a time. Sometimes 1 semester a year. I've been working fulltime since I graduated highschool (so long ago I don't want to remember). I would have graduated long ago if not for math. My college requires that I have a math minor since I am a computer science major. I've been done with my major requirements for a couple of semester now. The only thing that stands in my way is 1 math class for my minor and I will officially have a Bachelor of Science in Computer Science. Now if I didn't mention it before I'm weak in math. I've taken every math class twice, except for 3 of them. It's not from lack of study. It's just math takes me much longer to comprehend. Usually 2 sememsters for 1 subject :). (I've not had a problem in my CS classes. Very respectable grades there!) So here's my hangup. The class I'm taking this semester (and it's my last class ever if I make a B) is Non-Euclidean Geometry. Now I did not take this by choice. This is the lowest level (MA333) math class that I could take. Did I mention I'm bad in math? Anyway this class is theorems and proofs. Not only am I bad in math I'm horrible in math theory and proofs. Give me a "plug and chug" formula any day! So here's why I'm giving you my life story.:zzz: I would appreciate it if you kind folks could give me some pointers on how you would study for a math class that is comprised of theory. It's mainly Theorems and proofs. I know I could memorize all the theorems and proofs but let's be realistic. I can understand what the theorems are saying. And after seeing someone complete the proof I understand it. But to actually do the proof myself is another thing all together. So what would you recommend for studying this kind of subject? I don't know why this is so hard for me. I play logic games all the time with code. Should be that difficult. nay
You say you understand the material so what are you actually having trouble with? I would suggest finding a good tutor. Someone who actually gives a damn about teaching and what s/he is teaching, not some post-grad simply trying to pay the rent :-)
he he he. I like it in the kitchen! - Marc Clifton (on taking the heat when being flamed) Awasu v0.4a[^]: A free RSS reader with support for Code Project.
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You say you understand the material so what are you actually having trouble with? I would suggest finding a good tutor. Someone who actually gives a damn about teaching and what s/he is teaching, not some post-grad simply trying to pay the rent :-)
he he he. I like it in the kitchen! - Marc Clifton (on taking the heat when being flamed) Awasu v0.4a[^]: A free RSS reader with support for Code Project.
I understand the theorems. But putting the pieces of the puzzle together to make the proof is where I'm lacking. It's not like a numerical homework problems where you get an answer and can look in the back of the book to see if you got it right. Sorry I guess I'm not making myself clear on what I'm having trouble with. I think part of that is that maybe I don't understand what I don't understand:) nay
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I understand the theorems. But putting the pieces of the puzzle together to make the proof is where I'm lacking. It's not like a numerical homework problems where you get an answer and can look in the back of the book to see if you got it right. Sorry I guess I'm not making myself clear on what I'm having trouble with. I think part of that is that maybe I don't understand what I don't understand:) nay
I did 2 years of math at uni and I was like you - I much preferred things like calculus where you just plugged in the numbers and turned the handle. I struggled horribly with group theory until about half-way through the 2nd year when something just clicked and I "got it". I think it's just practice and finding a good teacher can help you through this process. Especially if you're not sure what you're having trouble with. It's like starting out in programming - you have all these things at your disposal, for loops, while loops, recursive functions, classes - how the hell do you put them all together to write a program?! But over time, you see how everything fits together and it makes sense. Sometimes :-)
he he he. I like it in the kitchen! - Marc Clifton (on taking the heat when being flamed) Awasu v0.4a[^]: A free RSS reader with support for Code Project.
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I've been going to college for a long time. Imagine trying to get a degree 1 or 2 classes at a time. Sometimes 1 semester a year. I've been working fulltime since I graduated highschool (so long ago I don't want to remember). I would have graduated long ago if not for math. My college requires that I have a math minor since I am a computer science major. I've been done with my major requirements for a couple of semester now. The only thing that stands in my way is 1 math class for my minor and I will officially have a Bachelor of Science in Computer Science. Now if I didn't mention it before I'm weak in math. I've taken every math class twice, except for 3 of them. It's not from lack of study. It's just math takes me much longer to comprehend. Usually 2 sememsters for 1 subject :). (I've not had a problem in my CS classes. Very respectable grades there!) So here's my hangup. The class I'm taking this semester (and it's my last class ever if I make a B) is Non-Euclidean Geometry. Now I did not take this by choice. This is the lowest level (MA333) math class that I could take. Did I mention I'm bad in math? Anyway this class is theorems and proofs. Not only am I bad in math I'm horrible in math theory and proofs. Give me a "plug and chug" formula any day! So here's why I'm giving you my life story.:zzz: I would appreciate it if you kind folks could give me some pointers on how you would study for a math class that is comprised of theory. It's mainly Theorems and proofs. I know I could memorize all the theorems and proofs but let's be realistic. I can understand what the theorems are saying. And after seeing someone complete the proof I understand it. But to actually do the proof myself is another thing all together. So what would you recommend for studying this kind of subject? I don't know why this is so hard for me. I play logic games all the time with code. Should be that difficult. nay
Like you, I worked full time through school, but on top of a full class load (which might explain my just so-so grade average). Like you, I had a hell of a time with math, even though I love it. You say you understand the theorems, but imply that you have trouble finding the path through all the steps of the proofs. I had the same trouble. Practice is the key. Do lots of homework problems; we were usually assigned the even or the odd problems for homework, but I did them all. Then I tried proving the theorems that I hadn't previously been required to know how to prove. For the most part, I failed miserably, but I gained a lot of insight into the process. For myself, if a thousand mathematicians had already proved it, I'm quite willing to take their word for it. I'm an engineer, and I only care about tools that work, not obscure theory. If I'd wanted to spend my life doing that crap I would have stuck with my original majors. Why you would pick a class like non-Euclidean Geometry over something simple like Non-Linear Differential Equations is a mystery to me, but I assume it looked easier in the syllabus. I wouldn't touch that with a 10' pole. It reeks of Math Major. Good luck, and to reiterate, practice the process at every opportunity! It's the thought process, the reasoning steps, that matter in proofs. If this is all that lies between you and that scrap of sheepskin, make it your top priority - go without sleep, if need be. Once you get out, your real learning can begin. "How many times do I have to flush before you go away?" - Megan Forbes, on Management (12/5/2002)
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Like you, I worked full time through school, but on top of a full class load (which might explain my just so-so grade average). Like you, I had a hell of a time with math, even though I love it. You say you understand the theorems, but imply that you have trouble finding the path through all the steps of the proofs. I had the same trouble. Practice is the key. Do lots of homework problems; we were usually assigned the even or the odd problems for homework, but I did them all. Then I tried proving the theorems that I hadn't previously been required to know how to prove. For the most part, I failed miserably, but I gained a lot of insight into the process. For myself, if a thousand mathematicians had already proved it, I'm quite willing to take their word for it. I'm an engineer, and I only care about tools that work, not obscure theory. If I'd wanted to spend my life doing that crap I would have stuck with my original majors. Why you would pick a class like non-Euclidean Geometry over something simple like Non-Linear Differential Equations is a mystery to me, but I assume it looked easier in the syllabus. I wouldn't touch that with a 10' pole. It reeks of Math Major. Good luck, and to reiterate, practice the process at every opportunity! It's the thought process, the reasoning steps, that matter in proofs. If this is all that lies between you and that scrap of sheepskin, make it your top priority - go without sleep, if need be. Once you get out, your real learning can begin. "How many times do I have to flush before you go away?" - Megan Forbes, on Management (12/5/2002)
Roger Wright wrote: If this is all that lies between you and that scrap of sheepskin, make it your top priority - go without sleep, if need be. Once you get out, your real learning can begin. The sad thing is I've been programming in "the defense industry" for over 2 years. And before that I was in "the automotive industry". I've far surpassed what I've learned in my CS classes. I have the respect of many senior programmers where I work. The only thing that is keeping me from $$ is the sheepskin as you said. My employer doesn't mind because I'm working at a mid-level programming position for co-op pay. Roger Wright wrote: Why you would pick a class like non-Euclidean Geometry over something simple like Non-Linear Differential Equations is a mystery to me, but I assume it looked easier in the syllabus. I wouldn't touch that with a 10' pole. It reeks of Math Major. I've already taken Dif-E-Q. It was the only class available. Literally. Thanks for the encouragement! I appreciate the study advice. nay
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I've been going to college for a long time. Imagine trying to get a degree 1 or 2 classes at a time. Sometimes 1 semester a year. I've been working fulltime since I graduated highschool (so long ago I don't want to remember). I would have graduated long ago if not for math. My college requires that I have a math minor since I am a computer science major. I've been done with my major requirements for a couple of semester now. The only thing that stands in my way is 1 math class for my minor and I will officially have a Bachelor of Science in Computer Science. Now if I didn't mention it before I'm weak in math. I've taken every math class twice, except for 3 of them. It's not from lack of study. It's just math takes me much longer to comprehend. Usually 2 sememsters for 1 subject :). (I've not had a problem in my CS classes. Very respectable grades there!) So here's my hangup. The class I'm taking this semester (and it's my last class ever if I make a B) is Non-Euclidean Geometry. Now I did not take this by choice. This is the lowest level (MA333) math class that I could take. Did I mention I'm bad in math? Anyway this class is theorems and proofs. Not only am I bad in math I'm horrible in math theory and proofs. Give me a "plug and chug" formula any day! So here's why I'm giving you my life story.:zzz: I would appreciate it if you kind folks could give me some pointers on how you would study for a math class that is comprised of theory. It's mainly Theorems and proofs. I know I could memorize all the theorems and proofs but let's be realistic. I can understand what the theorems are saying. And after seeing someone complete the proof I understand it. But to actually do the proof myself is another thing all together. So what would you recommend for studying this kind of subject? I don't know why this is so hard for me. I play logic games all the time with code. Should be that difficult. nay
:|I know what you mean. Even though I like Math, Geometry is my worst subject (along with statistics) because they are either very boring and/or useless. In Calculus II, there was a chapter devoted to Infinite Series which is basically proofs. The best way for me to learn it was to just do a lot of problems. Your "Not only am I bad in math I'm horrible in math theory and proofs. Give me a "plug and chug" formula any day!" statement tells me your a more practiacl person so do lots of problems and make sure you take some information away from each one.
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I've been going to college for a long time. Imagine trying to get a degree 1 or 2 classes at a time. Sometimes 1 semester a year. I've been working fulltime since I graduated highschool (so long ago I don't want to remember). I would have graduated long ago if not for math. My college requires that I have a math minor since I am a computer science major. I've been done with my major requirements for a couple of semester now. The only thing that stands in my way is 1 math class for my minor and I will officially have a Bachelor of Science in Computer Science. Now if I didn't mention it before I'm weak in math. I've taken every math class twice, except for 3 of them. It's not from lack of study. It's just math takes me much longer to comprehend. Usually 2 sememsters for 1 subject :). (I've not had a problem in my CS classes. Very respectable grades there!) So here's my hangup. The class I'm taking this semester (and it's my last class ever if I make a B) is Non-Euclidean Geometry. Now I did not take this by choice. This is the lowest level (MA333) math class that I could take. Did I mention I'm bad in math? Anyway this class is theorems and proofs. Not only am I bad in math I'm horrible in math theory and proofs. Give me a "plug and chug" formula any day! So here's why I'm giving you my life story.:zzz: I would appreciate it if you kind folks could give me some pointers on how you would study for a math class that is comprised of theory. It's mainly Theorems and proofs. I know I could memorize all the theorems and proofs but let's be realistic. I can understand what the theorems are saying. And after seeing someone complete the proof I understand it. But to actually do the proof myself is another thing all together. So what would you recommend for studying this kind of subject? I don't know why this is so hard for me. I play logic games all the time with code. Should be that difficult. nay
I feel for you man, I hated maths in college as well, though Geometry is one of my better skills ( though not by much ). I don't know about anyone else, but for me, the key was doing lots of examples and practices. I've noticed that most of the Geometry papers I've sat for more or less had the same questions, just different variations and with some twists. Can you get a hold of some past year [exam] papers ? If you could, you could attempt those questions. It was a great help to me. Good Luck, Man:) Notorious SMC
The difference between the almost-right word & the right word is a really large matter - it's the difference between the lightning bug and the Lightning Mark Twain
Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please Mark Twain -
I've been going to college for a long time. Imagine trying to get a degree 1 or 2 classes at a time. Sometimes 1 semester a year. I've been working fulltime since I graduated highschool (so long ago I don't want to remember). I would have graduated long ago if not for math. My college requires that I have a math minor since I am a computer science major. I've been done with my major requirements for a couple of semester now. The only thing that stands in my way is 1 math class for my minor and I will officially have a Bachelor of Science in Computer Science. Now if I didn't mention it before I'm weak in math. I've taken every math class twice, except for 3 of them. It's not from lack of study. It's just math takes me much longer to comprehend. Usually 2 sememsters for 1 subject :). (I've not had a problem in my CS classes. Very respectable grades there!) So here's my hangup. The class I'm taking this semester (and it's my last class ever if I make a B) is Non-Euclidean Geometry. Now I did not take this by choice. This is the lowest level (MA333) math class that I could take. Did I mention I'm bad in math? Anyway this class is theorems and proofs. Not only am I bad in math I'm horrible in math theory and proofs. Give me a "plug and chug" formula any day! So here's why I'm giving you my life story.:zzz: I would appreciate it if you kind folks could give me some pointers on how you would study for a math class that is comprised of theory. It's mainly Theorems and proofs. I know I could memorize all the theorems and proofs but let's be realistic. I can understand what the theorems are saying. And after seeing someone complete the proof I understand it. But to actually do the proof myself is another thing all together. So what would you recommend for studying this kind of subject? I don't know why this is so hard for me. I play logic games all the time with code. Should be that difficult. nay
In a word, practice. You say you understand the theorems and proofs when shown, but actually doing a proof is difficult. Well, your foundations are there - now you need to build on them. It's the same with anything - imagine learning (or more probably when you learnt) to drive a car. You can understand the principles of needing to use the steering wheel, pedals, mirrors and signals to actually drive around. You can sit in the passenger seat and watch someone conrol a car, but get in the driver's seat yourself and it all becomes a little daunting. But, with practice everything starts becomming more natural until, in the end, you wondered what all the fuss was about. Try this for your maths course. Get hold of example questions or past exam papers and just go through them. By practicing how to actually prove a theorem, you will start picking up techniques and gaining experience in actually doing just that. Cheers, Phil Phil
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Roger Wright wrote: If this is all that lies between you and that scrap of sheepskin, make it your top priority - go without sleep, if need be. Once you get out, your real learning can begin. The sad thing is I've been programming in "the defense industry" for over 2 years. And before that I was in "the automotive industry". I've far surpassed what I've learned in my CS classes. I have the respect of many senior programmers where I work. The only thing that is keeping me from $$ is the sheepskin as you said. My employer doesn't mind because I'm working at a mid-level programming position for co-op pay. Roger Wright wrote: Why you would pick a class like non-Euclidean Geometry over something simple like Non-Linear Differential Equations is a mystery to me, but I assume it looked easier in the syllabus. I wouldn't touch that with a 10' pole. It reeks of Math Major. I've already taken Dif-E-Q. It was the only class available. Literally. Thanks for the encouragement! I appreciate the study advice. nay
nay wrote: My employer doesn't mind because I'm working at a mid-level programming position for co-op pay. I feel for you - I did the same thing. They had me managing engineers before I graduated, doing all the requirements analysis and conceptual design before handing the pieces out to my team. When I finally graduated, they gave me a 5% raise, while newbies that graduated at the same time but lacked any experience they paid 20% more than I was making. I should have left then, but I stuck it out another three years. Hang in there, and practice, practice, practice... You'll make it!:-D "How many times do I have to flush before you go away?" - Megan Forbes, on Management (12/5/2002)