Memory, improving, storing, retrieving
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a poem:
Old forces Twisted Zelda Thoughts enraged. Fortuntely Zelda’s Fighting smashed Orion’s zephyr. Orion sent Thru trouble, Three travellers. For firey Stars finished Nasty Zelda.:cool:
"When the only tool you have is a hammer, a sore thumb you will have."
Philip Fitzsimons wrote: Old forces Twisted Zelda Thoughts enraged. Fortuntely Zelda’s Fighting smashed Orion’s zephyr. Orion sent Thru trouble, Three travellers. For firey Stars finished Nasty Zelda. Wow, cool. At first I thought "WTF is he smoking?" but then realised how it works, thanks :)
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South Africa -
Chris Maunder wrote: And if your response is 'what if I don't have my camera with me' then my response is ... then my response is what the hell do you need to know f/stop for anyway :-D
Paul Watson wrote: "At the end of the day it is what you produce that counts, not how many doctorates you have on the wall."
George Carlin wrote: "Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things."
Ray Cassick wrote: then my response is what the hell do you need to know f/stop for anyway so that even without a camera handy you can impress the ladi... err interested-parties. Everyone knows we only do photography to be seen as arty, creative and interesting. It is simply another survival and procreation trick. ;) * Seriously though I need to know the f/stop scale so that I can put the Zone System to effective use
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South Africa -
peterchen wrote: why do you need to remember that list?? I understand the tradeoff between aperture, exposure time, and focus depth - but why do you need the numbers?? For the Zone System. It is actually quite interesting and so far the theory is sound. To cut a long tutorial short the basic idea is this: You look at a scene and visualise it as you want it to appear on the film. You ligh-meter the important subjects in your scene and then assign the middle subject to Zone 5, the middle subject is the subject closest to 18% gray. The zone system has a range from Zone 0 to Zone X, 11 zones in total. Each zone represents a f/stop higher than the one before and lower than the one after. It is important not to say Zone 5 is always f/5.6 or Zone 8 is f/8. The zones "slide" up and down the f/stop scale depending on the scene, you just calibrate it to the middle zone, Zone 5. The zone system then also maps to film densities, which is very important. Zone 5 is mid density with full texture, Zone X is full density with no texture, Zone 0 is no density with no texture etc. etc. Now comes the cool bit. You can then say "I don't want my middle subject showing as 18% gray, I want it lighter, but still retain good texture." Lets say at Zone 5 in this particular scene the f/stop is 4. You would then say bump up the middle subject to Zone 6, that is one f/stop higher, which is f/5.6. That is what you set your camera to. Naturally then if there were other subjects you wanted in the shot then they also scale up or down the zones in relation to your middle subject. The whole point really is to give you control in saying "Can I get in all the detail of this scene, the shadows, the middle and the highlights?" or you can say "I want as much detail in the shadows as is possible, sacrificing the highlight details." The zone system then gives you the tool to do that, with the end result being an f/stop that you punch into your camera and use. And because light-meters return a shutter and aperture number you need to know the f/stop scale so that you can map it effectively to the zone system, and then back again. All very cool :-D
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaWow! :omg: I'm impressed. In my days, you adjusted the roll type and exposure time, and the light meter would tell you "too bright" or "too dark" (an f/stop, if it was an external device). You'd simply point it at the object to have average light (or +/- one stop manually) . Seems similar, only less concious/rationale. (I didn#t read the long tutorial, though)
Those who not hear the music think the dancers are mad. [sighist] [Agile Programming]
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Wow! :omg: I'm impressed. In my days, you adjusted the roll type and exposure time, and the light meter would tell you "too bright" or "too dark" (an f/stop, if it was an external device). You'd simply point it at the object to have average light (or +/- one stop manually) . Seems similar, only less concious/rationale. (I didn#t read the long tutorial, though)
Those who not hear the music think the dancers are mad. [sighist] [Agile Programming]
peterchen wrote: In my days, you adjusted the roll type and exposure time, and the light meter would tell you "too bright" or "too dark" (an f/stop, if it was an external device). You'd simply point it at the object to have average light (or +/- one stop manually) . Seems similar, only less concious/rationale. (I didn#t read the long tutorial, though) Yes that is all used in the Zone System to setup the scene. The problem though with not thinking of zones and just intentionally over or under exposing is that you are only controlling the exposure of one of the subjects in your photo. With the ZS you can with some practice and thought control the exposure of 2 or 3 differently lighted subjects.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South Africa -
Roger Wright wrote: It's not a terribly difficult calculation, Paul: f-stop definition[^]. "Basically, calculated from the focal length of the lens divided by the diameter of the bundle of light rays entering the lens and passing through the aperture in the iris diaphragm" Yeah, simple, can do it in my sleep... :rolleyes: Roger Wright wrote: Nobody wants to read a diary by someone who has not seen the shadow of Bubba on the prison shower wall in front of them! Paul Watson, on BLOGS and privacy - 1/16/2003 LOL! Now this is an honour indeed :)
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaI was referring to the formula - start with 1.0, multiply by 1.4, round. Repeat as necessary. You can even skip the rounding - sure, (1.4)^5 = 5.4, but that should be enough to jog your memory to remember 5.6 as the actual setting. Don't be frightened... it's called math, and it won't bite...:-D Nobody wants to read a diary by someone who has not seen the shadow of Bubba on the prison shower wall in front of them!
Paul Watson, on BLOGS and privacy - 1/16/2003 -
benjymous wrote: Write it on a sticker and attach it to your camera LOL I have printed the list and stuck it inside my camera bag... plus the camera itself has the list handily enough. But the point is to be able to remember it as you are looking at a scene to judge it effectively, all quite quickly. Pulling out bits of paper or looking through viewfinders etc. will distract from the judging of the scene. I need a pair of those glasses with a built LCD screen, then I can touch my top left tooth whenever I need the list ;)
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaPaul Watson wrote: But the point is to be able to remember it as you are looking at a scene to judge it effectively, all quite quickly. D'Oh. That's what the light meter is for. You have a light meter, yes? All you need to know is to follow the light meter and then adjust from there. ie. shooting into the sun, the light meter will tell you to have a really small aperture which in turn will make your shot intolerably dark - solution drop the aperture by a stop or two. You dig? J
May the bear never have cause to eat you.
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peterchen wrote: why do you need to remember that list?? I understand the tradeoff between aperture, exposure time, and focus depth - but why do you need the numbers?? For the Zone System. It is actually quite interesting and so far the theory is sound. To cut a long tutorial short the basic idea is this: You look at a scene and visualise it as you want it to appear on the film. You ligh-meter the important subjects in your scene and then assign the middle subject to Zone 5, the middle subject is the subject closest to 18% gray. The zone system has a range from Zone 0 to Zone X, 11 zones in total. Each zone represents a f/stop higher than the one before and lower than the one after. It is important not to say Zone 5 is always f/5.6 or Zone 8 is f/8. The zones "slide" up and down the f/stop scale depending on the scene, you just calibrate it to the middle zone, Zone 5. The zone system then also maps to film densities, which is very important. Zone 5 is mid density with full texture, Zone X is full density with no texture, Zone 0 is no density with no texture etc. etc. Now comes the cool bit. You can then say "I don't want my middle subject showing as 18% gray, I want it lighter, but still retain good texture." Lets say at Zone 5 in this particular scene the f/stop is 4. You would then say bump up the middle subject to Zone 6, that is one f/stop higher, which is f/5.6. That is what you set your camera to. Naturally then if there were other subjects you wanted in the shot then they also scale up or down the zones in relation to your middle subject. The whole point really is to give you control in saying "Can I get in all the detail of this scene, the shadows, the middle and the highlights?" or you can say "I want as much detail in the shadows as is possible, sacrificing the highlight details." The zone system then gives you the tool to do that, with the end result being an f/stop that you punch into your camera and use. And because light-meters return a shutter and aperture number you need to know the f/stop scale so that you can map it effectively to the zone system, and then back again. All very cool :-D
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South Africa:wtf: Alrighty... you can probably ignore my previous reply. Clearly I don't have enough "steps" to my technique. Sounds interesting though... J
May the bear never have cause to eat you.
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:wtf: Alrighty... you can probably ignore my previous reply. Clearly I don't have enough "steps" to my technique. Sounds interesting though... J
May the bear never have cause to eat you.
Jamie Hale wrote: Clearly I don't have enough "steps" to my technique LOL well if you like your technique and it works well then a: Stick with it and b: Share! I stumbled across that Zone System and it was recommended enough to warrant looking into. Also my explanation is obviously very brief and flawed as I am still learning, so check out the tutorial itself to judge. Jamie Hale wrote: You have a light meter, yes? No, I wish. Managed to afford the camera and lens, now saving up for a good light meter, some filters and another lens. The in-camera light meter is pretty good, just lacks a spot meter option though :( So where is your portfolio? What lens, camera, film do you use? What are your secrets? :-D
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South Africa -
Jamie Hale wrote: Clearly I don't have enough "steps" to my technique LOL well if you like your technique and it works well then a: Stick with it and b: Share! I stumbled across that Zone System and it was recommended enough to warrant looking into. Also my explanation is obviously very brief and flawed as I am still learning, so check out the tutorial itself to judge. Jamie Hale wrote: You have a light meter, yes? No, I wish. Managed to afford the camera and lens, now saving up for a good light meter, some filters and another lens. The in-camera light meter is pretty good, just lacks a spot meter option though :( So where is your portfolio? What lens, camera, film do you use? What are your secrets? :-D
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaPaul Watson wrote: So where is your portfolio? What lens, camera, film do you use? What are your secrets? Err, well, you see... the trouble is... Well ok. When I'm not using my digital (and since the birth of my daughter it's what I seem to have used exclusively), I use one of these[^]. The lens is a fixed 50mm I think - I'd have to look. The camera has removable backs so you can load up a black and white AND a colour roll each in their own back, and swap between them as you please. Mind you they're quite old and I don't trust them to keep out the light, so I don't use that feature. I shoot black and white mostly, and before my parents moved out of their house, I did a lot of my own developing in their darkroom. As for secrets? I guess for me it's mostly in the subject matter. I have a lot of pictures of peoples' backs because they were looking at something in particular, or in a certain way. And I have a lot of nature shots because it's so easy to capture something beautiful. Sure lighting is very important, but I find poorly lit pictures of something intriguing typically better than well-lit pictures of not-a-whole-lot. Know what I mean? J
May the bear never have cause to eat you.
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Paul Watson wrote: So where is your portfolio? What lens, camera, film do you use? What are your secrets? Err, well, you see... the trouble is... Well ok. When I'm not using my digital (and since the birth of my daughter it's what I seem to have used exclusively), I use one of these[^]. The lens is a fixed 50mm I think - I'd have to look. The camera has removable backs so you can load up a black and white AND a colour roll each in their own back, and swap between them as you please. Mind you they're quite old and I don't trust them to keep out the light, so I don't use that feature. I shoot black and white mostly, and before my parents moved out of their house, I did a lot of my own developing in their darkroom. As for secrets? I guess for me it's mostly in the subject matter. I have a lot of pictures of peoples' backs because they were looking at something in particular, or in a certain way. And I have a lot of nature shots because it's so easy to capture something beautiful. Sure lighting is very important, but I find poorly lit pictures of something intriguing typically better than well-lit pictures of not-a-whole-lot. Know what I mean? J
May the bear never have cause to eat you.
Jamie Hale wrote: Know what I mean? Indeed. Even if I did not you could always just claim artistic license and say your shots are moody, that is what I do with all my underexposed shots... ;)
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South Africa
