Creative pro-choice message
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Konstantin Vasserman wrote: Creative pro-choice message I am pro-choice but that is a bit of a daft message, just making fun of Bush in musical fashion is getting very, very old, very, very fast. No good points were made either and the Iraq bit was just lame. BTW what is the general feeling about pro-choice in the US? Is Bush just voicing the general consensus?
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South Africa -
Konstantin Vasserman wrote: Creative pro-choice message I am pro-choice but that is a bit of a daft message, just making fun of Bush in musical fashion is getting very, very old, very, very fast. No good points were made either and the Iraq bit was just lame. BTW what is the general feeling about pro-choice in the US? Is Bush just voicing the general consensus?
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaI think I've met two people who are anti-choice, my father and stepmother. They also think that the Internet is the tool of Satan. :confused: Nobody wants to read a diary by someone who has not seen the shadow of Bubba on the prison shower wall in front of them!
Paul Watson, on BLOGS and privacy - 1/16/2003 -
Konstantin Vasserman wrote: Creative pro-choice message I am pro-choice but that is a bit of a daft message, just making fun of Bush in musical fashion is getting very, very old, very, very fast. No good points were made either and the Iraq bit was just lame. BTW what is the general feeling about pro-choice in the US? Is Bush just voicing the general consensus?
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaPaul Watson wrote: Is Bush just voicing the general consensus? I would say that he is. I think the majority postion is to quote Bill Clinton "abortion should be safe, legal, and extremely rare". Now I have to wash my mouth out... Most would agree with abortion in cases of rape, to save the mothers life, etc. if in the 1st trimester. Most feel this is a very personal moral decision, and very subject to the specifics of the situation. Few agree with use as a method of birth control, particularly in the 2nd or 3rd trimester. Extremists at both ends keep the divisive arguement going, one side by insisting any abortion should be illegal, the other by insisting all (even 3rd trimester) should be legal regardless of circumstance. Unfortunately, it is the extreme postions that get identified with either "pro-life" or "pro-choice". Some ideas are so stupid that only an intellectual could have thought of them - George Orwell
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Konstantin Vasserman wrote: Creative pro-choice message I am pro-choice but that is a bit of a daft message, just making fun of Bush in musical fashion is getting very, very old, very, very fast. No good points were made either and the Iraq bit was just lame. BTW what is the general feeling about pro-choice in the US? Is Bush just voicing the general consensus?
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaPaul Watson wrote: just making fun of Bush in musical fashion is getting very, very old, very, very fast. I dunno, it was really quite well put together (for a change). :rolleyes:
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
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Paul Watson wrote: just making fun of Bush in musical fashion is getting very, very old, very, very fast. I dunno, it was really quite well put together (for a change). :rolleyes:
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
David Wulff wrote: it was really quite well put together You're not kidding, are you? I thought the animation was average, but they did a very poor job of blending the animated mouth into the rest of the head. The frame was clearly visible and distracting most of the time. If they'd hired one of our animation gurus here at CP to do it, I'm sure it would have come out much better. Nobody wants to read a diary by someone who has not seen the shadow of Bubba on the prison shower wall in front of them!
Paul Watson, on BLOGS and privacy - 1/16/2003 -
I think I've met two people who are anti-choice, my father and stepmother. They also think that the Internet is the tool of Satan. :confused: Nobody wants to read a diary by someone who has not seen the shadow of Bubba on the prison shower wall in front of them!
Paul Watson, on BLOGS and privacy - 1/16/2003Roger Wright wrote: They also think that the Internet is the tool of Satan. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA !!! I am a Christian, as you know, and when the Internet was first commerical, I had a few people ask me if I was able to look at pr0n on it, because the newspapers gave people the view that this is what it was for. But it's not the sort of church that would say something like that, we also only play our records forwards. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002 -
David Wulff wrote: it was really quite well put together You're not kidding, are you? I thought the animation was average, but they did a very poor job of blending the animated mouth into the rest of the head. The frame was clearly visible and distracting most of the time. If they'd hired one of our animation gurus here at CP to do it, I'm sure it would have come out much better. Nobody wants to read a diary by someone who has not seen the shadow of Bubba on the prison shower wall in front of them!
Paul Watson, on BLOGS and privacy - 1/16/2003I wasn't talking so much about the animation quality, I was talking more about the way it was constructed. It had a propper storyline to it compared to most fo the others.
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
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Konstantin Vasserman wrote: Creative pro-choice message I am pro-choice but that is a bit of a daft message, just making fun of Bush in musical fashion is getting very, very old, very, very fast. No good points were made either and the Iraq bit was just lame. BTW what is the general feeling about pro-choice in the US? Is Bush just voicing the general consensus?
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaPaul Watson wrote: No good points were made either and the Iraq bit was just lame. You know, I wasn't even going to look until I read this. I agree with you, it was lame. I didn't even get to an Iraq bit. Is it true ? Does Bush want to ban abortion ? That'll get him votes in the deep south. I am VERY anti-abortion, but I am also VERY pro-choice. What right do I have to tell other people how to live ? So much for 'land of the free'. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002 -
Roger Wright wrote: They also think that the Internet is the tool of Satan. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA !!! I am a Christian, as you know, and when the Internet was first commerical, I had a few people ask me if I was able to look at pr0n on it, because the newspapers gave people the view that this is what it was for. But it's not the sort of church that would say something like that, we also only play our records forwards. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002Christian Graus wrote: able to look at pr0n on it, because the newspapers gave people the view that this is what it was for. I think Scott Adams had the right of it when he wrote that the Internet is safe for kids, because all the really good pr0n sites were too busy to respond due to old farts looking for free tittie shots. Christian Graus wrote: we also only play our records forwards. LOL!!! I never tried that, but my turntable is so old it has a neutral setting to allow it.:laugh: I wonder what Madonna sounds like in reverse? Probably much better... Nobody wants to read a diary by someone who has not seen the shadow of Bubba on the prison shower wall in front of them!
Paul Watson, on BLOGS and privacy - 1/16/2003 -
Paul Watson wrote: No good points were made either and the Iraq bit was just lame. You know, I wasn't even going to look until I read this. I agree with you, it was lame. I didn't even get to an Iraq bit. Is it true ? Does Bush want to ban abortion ? That'll get him votes in the deep south. I am VERY anti-abortion, but I am also VERY pro-choice. What right do I have to tell other people how to live ? So much for 'land of the free'. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002Christian Graus wrote: VERY anti-abortion, but I am also VERY pro-choice Me, too. But try explaining that to a zealot of either ilk. The religious right faction wants to ban abortion, and has repeatedly tried to ram that down our throats in the form of law. It's a matter of personal moral choice, not subject to legislation, but the holier-than-thou keep trying... Roe vs Wade was a bad decision, but not because it upheld a right. It was bad because the proper decision would have been to deny government the right to rule on it at all. Nobody wants to read a diary by someone who has not seen the shadow of Bubba on the prison shower wall in front of them!
Paul Watson, on BLOGS and privacy - 1/16/2003 -
Christian Graus wrote: VERY anti-abortion, but I am also VERY pro-choice Me, too. But try explaining that to a zealot of either ilk. The religious right faction wants to ban abortion, and has repeatedly tried to ram that down our throats in the form of law. It's a matter of personal moral choice, not subject to legislation, but the holier-than-thou keep trying... Roe vs Wade was a bad decision, but not because it upheld a right. It was bad because the proper decision would have been to deny government the right to rule on it at all. Nobody wants to read a diary by someone who has not seen the shadow of Bubba on the prison shower wall in front of them!
Paul Watson, on BLOGS and privacy - 1/16/2003Roger Wright wrote: But try explaining that to a zealot of either ilk. I know. I spend a bit of time on Christian forums here and there, and I've tried at times to bring up issues like rape victims to show that the issue is simply not always clear cut. I am so astounded that it's so hard to find a person who accepts that this is even a part of the equation. Roger Wright wrote: It was bad because the proper decision would have been to deny government the right to rule on it at all. So true. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002 -
Paul Watson wrote: No good points were made either and the Iraq bit was just lame. You know, I wasn't even going to look until I read this. I agree with you, it was lame. I didn't even get to an Iraq bit. Is it true ? Does Bush want to ban abortion ? That'll get him votes in the deep south. I am VERY anti-abortion, but I am also VERY pro-choice. What right do I have to tell other people how to live ? So much for 'land of the free'. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002Christian Graus wrote: What right do I have to tell other people how to live ? So much for 'land of the free'. Do I have a right to kill my kids after they are born? Absolutely not! But why not, I can kill them a day before they're born?
Jason Henderson
start page ; articles henderson is coming henderson is an opponent's worst nightmare * googlism * -
Christian Graus wrote: What right do I have to tell other people how to live ? So much for 'land of the free'. Do I have a right to kill my kids after they are born? Absolutely not! But why not, I can kill them a day before they're born?
Jason Henderson
start page ; articles henderson is coming henderson is an opponent's worst nightmare * googlism *Yeah, that's what we're talking about. Emotional arguements with no recourse to logic. Clearly, no abortion law allows you to kill a child about to be born, the fact that you need to claim otherwise either means you have no idea of the issue, or otherwise, you know your position untenable and so are inventing a straw man. If you prefer emotional argument, try this. A 12 year old girl is raped and beaten by her stepfather. She is 3 weeks pregnant. Why should she be forced to bear the child of her attacker ? Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002 -
Paul Watson wrote: No good points were made either and the Iraq bit was just lame. You know, I wasn't even going to look until I read this. I agree with you, it was lame. I didn't even get to an Iraq bit. Is it true ? Does Bush want to ban abortion ? That'll get him votes in the deep south. I am VERY anti-abortion, but I am also VERY pro-choice. What right do I have to tell other people how to live ? So much for 'land of the free'. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002Christian Graus wrote: I am VERY anti-abortion, but I am also VERY pro-choice. What right do I have to tell other people how to live ? Do you think it is wrong to kill another (innocent) human? To keep it more of an even argument, do you think it is wrong for a mother to kill her small child? Are you glad there are laws to prevent just that? Those laws are telling others how to live, but why the difference when it comes to abortion? I see that as being the sticking point between the majority of the two sides: The left doesn't consider something to be alive until it is breathing on its own; the right considers something to be alive at conception. Enough thinking for me tonight, time for bed :zzz: James "It is self repeating, of unknown pattern" Data - Star Trek: The Next Generation
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Christian Graus wrote: I am VERY anti-abortion, but I am also VERY pro-choice. What right do I have to tell other people how to live ? Do you think it is wrong to kill another (innocent) human? To keep it more of an even argument, do you think it is wrong for a mother to kill her small child? Are you glad there are laws to prevent just that? Those laws are telling others how to live, but why the difference when it comes to abortion? I see that as being the sticking point between the majority of the two sides: The left doesn't consider something to be alive until it is breathing on its own; the right considers something to be alive at conception. Enough thinking for me tonight, time for bed :zzz: James "It is self repeating, of unknown pattern" Data - Star Trek: The Next Generation
Congratulations, you at least present the case in a logical manner. As I said to Jason, I oppose abortion personally, but it's just not that black and white an issue. There are instances where it is the best option, and the needs of the mother outweigh the needs of the unborn child, especially in the first few weeks where there is simply no brain to *be* conscious of anything going on. The trouble is that it's too easy to get emotional about kids ( I know, I have two, and I admit since having them I come close to crying if I hear/see something about kids being harmed ). That does not change reality. Abortion should not be used as a form of birth control, but making it illegal does not solve the problem, and there are cases where it is an option that should be pursued almost as a given, unless the mother personally feels otherwise. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002 -
Congratulations, you at least present the case in a logical manner. As I said to Jason, I oppose abortion personally, but it's just not that black and white an issue. There are instances where it is the best option, and the needs of the mother outweigh the needs of the unborn child, especially in the first few weeks where there is simply no brain to *be* conscious of anything going on. The trouble is that it's too easy to get emotional about kids ( I know, I have two, and I admit since having them I come close to crying if I hear/see something about kids being harmed ). That does not change reality. Abortion should not be used as a form of birth control, but making it illegal does not solve the problem, and there are cases where it is an option that should be pursued almost as a given, unless the mother personally feels otherwise. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002Christian Graus wrote: As I said to Jason After I hit submit I saw that we both had used a similar example. And no, CPs server times aren't that far apart it just took me that long to forumlate my reply. :-O Christian Graus wrote: That does not change reality. Of course not, like most things the best solution lies between the two sides. I agree with most of what Rob Graham said in an earlier post as guidlines for a solution because it still takes into account the extremes (life of the mother and rape). Now I'm really going to bed :-D James "It is self repeating, of unknown pattern" Data - Star Trek: The Next Generation
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Yeah, that's what we're talking about. Emotional arguements with no recourse to logic. Clearly, no abortion law allows you to kill a child about to be born, the fact that you need to claim otherwise either means you have no idea of the issue, or otherwise, you know your position untenable and so are inventing a straw man. If you prefer emotional argument, try this. A 12 year old girl is raped and beaten by her stepfather. She is 3 weeks pregnant. Why should she be forced to bear the child of her attacker ? Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002Christian Graus wrote: Clearly, no abortion law allows you to kill a child about to be born Oh really? Late term abortions are not illegal. Christian Graus wrote: Why should she be forced to bear the child of her attacker ? So we should allow one crime to attempt to cover up another?
Jason Henderson
start page ; articles henderson is coming henderson is an opponent's worst nightmare * googlism * -
Congratulations, you at least present the case in a logical manner. As I said to Jason, I oppose abortion personally, but it's just not that black and white an issue. There are instances where it is the best option, and the needs of the mother outweigh the needs of the unborn child, especially in the first few weeks where there is simply no brain to *be* conscious of anything going on. The trouble is that it's too easy to get emotional about kids ( I know, I have two, and I admit since having them I come close to crying if I hear/see something about kids being harmed ). That does not change reality. Abortion should not be used as a form of birth control, but making it illegal does not solve the problem, and there are cases where it is an option that should be pursued almost as a given, unless the mother personally feels otherwise. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002Christian Graus wrote: Abortion should not be used as a form of birth control I agree whole-heartedly. Unfortunately, the majority of abortions are just that. Killing in self-defense is legal, therefore having an abortion to save the life of the mother could be deamed legal as well. I know the law cannot be driven by emotion, but my opinions can be.
Jason Henderson
start page ; articles henderson is coming henderson is an opponent's worst nightmare * googlism * -
Christian Graus wrote: Clearly, no abortion law allows you to kill a child about to be born Oh really? Late term abortions are not illegal. Christian Graus wrote: Why should she be forced to bear the child of her attacker ? So we should allow one crime to attempt to cover up another?
Jason Henderson
start page ; articles henderson is coming henderson is an opponent's worst nightmare * googlism *Jason Henderson wrote: Late term abortions are not illegal. Well, that is a good example of society 'righting' one wrong with a worse one. Any abortion in the third trimester is most certainly the taking of a life, no different to a newborn. Jason Henderson wrote: So we should allow one crime to attempt to cover up another? So again, when your 12 year old daughter is three weeks pregnant, having been beaten and raped by someone she trusted, and the baby is simply a collection of cells, madly duplicating, but still without form or sentience, you'd look her in the eye and say 'your dreams are gone, you need to spend your life bearing and raising the child of your attacker' ??? ( See, I can do the emotional argument thing quite well, doncha think ? :P ) Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002